Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame Nominees 2023

yeah plus jack white's done all sorts of stuff like that paramount records old time blues box set, etc

I got no problem with JD/New Order as a unit -- it's politics, man.

Small relief that this year won't be as bad as last year.

The only nominee I would never consider is Sheryl Crow. Everyone else has something that makes their induction feel deserving.

(And it's almost a given Crow will get in based on their recent inductees.)

Encyclopaedia Britannica has a single article on Joy Division/New Order (written by Jon Savage).

Among artists who had one album disproportionately successful compared to everything else they ever did, I'd be hard pressed to think of one that covers every pathway to the HOF--sales, chart success, critical acclaim, influence, impact and fame in a general cultural sense--better than She's So Unusual. Maybe I'm overlooking something.

I agree w/birdistheword's initial comments re: Crow

(and not just as a matter of taste – e.g., I loathe RATM, but get why they're "deserving")

and now you do what they told ya

I think NO/JD gets in as The Cure broke the mold for these types of bands and Depeche Mode made it last year. George Michael and Soundgatden should also make it.

Soundgarden really took a stratospheric jump after Ben Shepherd joined the band. I mean, I love Louder Than Love, Ultramega O.K., all the early stuff, but they became a much more interesting and multi-faceted group after that. Largely due to his songwriting contributions as well as even some of the tunings

The only nominee I would never consider is Sheryl Crow. Everyone else has something that makes their induction feel deserving.

I agree w/birdistheword's initial comments re: Crow

yeah but have y'all considered lightening up and/or soaking up the sun

Soundgarden, Lauper, and Sheryl Crow have got to be the least influential acts here, which is why I assume they'll get in.

Yeah, nobody sounds like Soundgarden or cites them as an influence; they were a real one-off proposition, almost forgotten, really.

Re: Nelson, I think Dolly Parton's instincts were correct. Both of them should be in, but rather than taking up a spot on the ballot, they should be committee inductions - except for Johnny Cash (who's unique given his time at Sun Records), country artists had been inducted that way anyway. I imagine it's just a way to drum up more PR - the months spanning the voting process probably gets a little more attention when Nelson or Parton are included in the conversation.

Re: Lauper, it really does come down to one amazing album. Twenty years ago I would've said She's So Unusual wasn't enough, but at this point, it's more than enough.

Soundgarden were good and successful. In terms of notable bands really trying to sound like them, Nirvana and Pearl Jam inspired far more copycats. So did Rage, which is why I didn't mention them.

does inspiration, like, have to mean 'created a lot of soundalike bands', as opposed to, inspired a lot of people to start making/recording music?

Soundgarden was a pastiche of a lot of 70s influences and they were definitely a band with buzz but not much more commercially, but their presence was gargantuan for a small period of time, and the excitement for their reunion was pretty high, King Animal was their third highest charting position in their career.

also when it comes to influence I find a lot of bands take a very narrow slice of a band's sound, for instance half of the time you hear someone say something is Alice in Chains influence, all it means is they have a high pitched raspy vocalist who likes to sing close harmonies, and Sabbath influence bands usually pull from like one album's sound (or even just a song).

Goo Goo Dolls messed around with weird tunings on their ballads starting with A Boy Named Goo after never doing it for years, maybe they were touched by the Garden.

Ok so if Lauper is to be defined as having just one great album (with at least five indelible songs)... one might point out that non-nerds (i.e., most of humanity) only know one (or perhaps two) Kate Bush songs.

Not if you live in the UK.

I'd be willing to hear the case that Soundgarden inspired a bunch of people to start bands. To me, they're in a weird spot. Their actual innovations seem relatively small, but they didn't suck. They were like the 3rd biggest Seattle band, and Kurt Cobain's rasp was trendier to emulate, and Vedder's Morrison-isms were easier, than Chris Cornell's howl. As far as making people money, they did do a lot to get the initial buzz going about Seattle.

Pretty sure they were the first of that crowd I actually heard about, in my late 1988/early 89-era "I guess Rolling Stone is mostly where to find out about new music?" mind.

God we've come far enough in time that the White Stripes are eligible. Sad stuff.

Am a fan of:

Kate Bush
Missy Elliott
Joy Division + New Order
George Michael

Enjoy but more-so revere:

Rage Against The Machine
The Spinners
A Tribe Called Quest

As for who gets in I have no clue it's a very unsurprising list

is influence that important of a factor? soundgarden was just a great rock band that was hard to emulate. frankly, for kids like me nirvana was the one mostly because you felt like you could do that. soundgarden is a harder target to reach.

If Joy Division and New Order get in this year, and Soundgarden and Rage don't, the solution for them next year is obviously to be nominated as Audioslave.

Re: influence and inspiration, I think the "quality" of the influence matters too. On those grounds, Kate Bush, Joy Division/New Order, Willie Nelson, The Spinners and A Tribe Called Quest would be at the top of my list. They didn't follow trends, they broke new ground and took big risks in their respective genres and wound up reshaping the music in the process. Re: New Order, one article stated that "they were formidable underground dance-music presences in the 1980s. They kept at it and the world came to them and they ended up global superstars" - that's pretty much what I'd call a profound influence.

Is it the Hall of Influence? The Hall of Like? The Hall of Deserve?

They could have called it the Hall of Merit, but chose Hall of Fame instead.

Among living people, George Michael is probably more famous than the Spinners or Elizabeth Cotten.

Willie Nelson is among the most famous musicians there is, but is he a rock musician?

they should ban more people from the hall, like in baseball, that would get me interested

also past inductees should be able to be kicked out arbitrarily

and during the ceremony where they get kicked out, a bunch of celeb musicians play their songs really badly on purpose

LMAO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfKT7cJGpY4

Hall of Flame

Beside the point of your post, but this is a little unfair to Kot. He's perhaps typical of critics of his generation in his affection for rock music and assuming its place in the center of the critical discourse, but he doesn't venerate the values of RAWK the way DeRo does, and his tastes are considerably more eclectic; he routinely champions other genres.

Back in the early to mid '00s (when their show was on WXRT), I remember that playing out once in a while whenever they argued over records. DeRo just seemed dismissive or especially hard on anything that wasn't "rock." To be fair, he seemed to change his mind about things all the time (he's dismissed than praised a lot of artists like Radiohead, the White Stripes, Gang of Four, Joy Division, New Order, David Bowie, etc.), but I recall one time where he dismissed Otis Redding as overrated because his influence wasn't as noticeable as Marvin Gaye's and other times he'd argue with Kot over some Bacharach pop record (probably Dionne Warwick) or possibly a country record, and his final response was "I listen to rock n' roll! What do YOU listen to?" What kind of argument is that coming from someone who's supposed to be an authority on pop music?

1. Genesis and Fleetwood Mac substantially changed almost everything re: each act's music over time, but neither ever changed brand names… these changes were far more gradual than JD/NO, but there was a smaller alteration in personnel in JD/NO… so if its only proper for Joy Division and New Order to be considered as separate inductees, should the Gabriel version have been separately inducted from Collins/Rutherford/Banks? Should Mac have had three inductions: Green/Spencer/Kirwan, Kirwan/weston, and then Buckingham/Nicks?

2. I think that, should Maiden be inducted, Steve Harris would at least be dismissive, being that the RRHoF over the past 20 years but certainly now has had very little to do with his very narrow view of rock music. "UFO isn't in? But a bunch of poofters (specifically Depeche Mode, the Cure) and tarts are?"

I still think they should just retroactively just say that LL Cool J, Kraftwerk, Gil-Scott Heron and Judas Priest are normal inductees, it's so weird and aggravating

Have two groups ever been nominated and/or inducted as a bundle before?

Small Faces/Faces

That seems almost as stark a split a Joy Division/New Order--fanciful mods to carousing bar band.

but I recall one time where he dismissed Otis Redding as overrated because his influence wasn't as noticeable as Marvin Gaye's

In addition to being wrong, it’s also pretty unfair, given how much shorter Redding’s career was. And DeRo blaming Redding for DeRo not being able to spot his influence is pretty rich.

What the fuck is going on with Outkast still not being nominated

Should Mac have had three inductions: Green/Spencer/Kirwan, Kirwan/weston, and then Buckingham/Nicks?

One argument in favor of that - it emphasizes that Green’s FM is a great group in its own right. Not news to any of us but I’m stunned how they’ve been marginalized to some extent in the U.S. Their work hasn’t been mastered or reissued properly like it has overseas, and even print publications here treat them like a footnote. I saw a Fleetwood Mac special on the rack, ostensibly covering their entire history, and there was barely much coverage at all on Peter Green et al.

Never even heard of The Spinners

Think I'll go with Kate Bush

Never even heard of The Spinners

they'll be around

like a record baby

Can’t remember where I read this, but during an early ‘80s P-Funk arena show, at the height of an all-hands-on-deck extravaganza, 40 people on stage, lights, confetti…suddenly, everything stopped dead and the lights went out. A single spotlight appeared on stage, and Philippé Wynne walked out in full tuxedo with white tails and sang “A Change Is Gonna Come.”

Also Joy Division/New Order should be in separately but I guess somebody was looking for something that would finally do the trick.

Did the trick for me! The two of them separately up against the rest of this list, I would have had a harder time. But together it's like, nobody else here should get in before them.

The Spinners should have been the first Philly Soul artists in the HOF. It’s strange they’re still waiting but the O’Jays have been there for a long while now. Similarly how has King Crimson been overlooked when they should have been the first progressive rock band in the HOF.

"Should have" is a discussion for a Hall of Merit. A Hall of Fame is going to be as fickle and arbitrary as fame itself.

If we treat every band according to what it deserves, whomst should scape whipping? - Oscar Marley Einstein (I think)