Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame Nominees 2023

Yeah, you can come back to the ballot after dropping off. Chic was nominated in 2003, 2006-09, 2011, and 2013-17.

the five i'd vote for: tribe, joy division/new order, zevon, kate bush, iron maiden

soundgarden and rage are my runners up. feels incredibly dumb that there's a rock and roll hall of fame and iron maiden isn't in there, but what can you do

Do they have, like, a Veteran's Committee with the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame?

I think the equivalent of this is the Musical Excellence category, which iirc started out as a way to honor sidemen and session players but recently inducted LL Cool J and Judas Priest.

https://www.rockhall.com/inductees/categories/musical-excellence

it's funny how Kate Bush went from being a near impossibility to I think maybe a lock due to Stranger Things

Also Joy Division/New Order should be in separately but I guess somebody was looking for something that would finally do the trick.

― Chris L, Wednesday, February 1, 2023 9:09 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

Same deal with the Faces/Small Faces. Two very different bands, but there was no other way each band was getting in separately (especially the Small Faces).

from what I can know about him based on his work, writing style etc etc, I dislike Bill Wyman. He is one of those chicago area rockist he —or maybe neo-rockist— dudes like Dero and Greg Kot who like ROCK, don't seem to understand anything beyond that, and when they try to present an understanding of hip-hop or pop music or anything else, appear very "HELLO FELLOW KIDS" and seem to be unduly influenced by Dave marsh… every time the RRhoF ceremony comes and goes, he updates his own ranking of the most to least worthy inductees, and his views are most often asinine and banal: if he was a poster here and presented his views as such in an unvarnished manner, he would be roundly jeered…

but he made an excellent point in the last such update: instead of the disingenous backdoor "early influences" and "excellence in music" booby prizes, the nominating committee should just come out and say "we are the nominating committee, and we are putting these two artists/acts in, and that's it, no voting, they're going in." The electorate —older bizzers, former alt paper lifers and other over 50s who truly care about voting and jealously guard their ability to do so— are never going to give the committee the results they (or most ILMniks, for that matter) want… doing so would not violate any principle or any such thing…

I'm also told by someone who should know that the journo/bizzers on the nominating committee, particularly the older people in their 60s/70s , are intimidated by Morello, Grohl and Questlove, like "geez, these guys are real musicians, and we're nerds who've created nothing or suits who've created nothing good, we should do what they say"; which is why Morello can push Priest in through the back door, and will surely try to do the same with Maiden…

Maiden has put in the work.

yeah there's zero rationale for metallica being in the hall and not maiden

lol I was going to say, there are over 100 million reasons. But while a quick google didn't come up with anything definitive, Maiden is surprisingly competitive on the record sale front!

Maiden should be in for several reasons:

• one of the best live bands on the planet
• one of the most instantly recognizable mascots
• Bruce Dickinson's scream on "The Number of the Beast"

i mean the whole thing is dumb but the fact that blue oyster cult will never make it really infuriates me.

Maiden, Kate and JD/NO are my immediate three locks; Missy and Tribe are my likely remainder. That said I really do want George in there.

Blame Will Ferrell tbh

yeah that's part of it :/

I think Willie Nelson's got a lane pretty wide open to get in here

Willie Nelson - I'm surprised he isn't already in

I pretty much assume he's in in a walk similar to Dolly last year. And if Maiden gets in as is right I want them to duet on "On the Road Again."

If Willie Nelson does not get in I will lose all respect for this storied institution.

Did you guys watch Dolly’s “rock ‘n’ roll” song at the end of last year’s ceremony?

I think the Joy Division/New Order grouping is okay--for the reason Tarfumes gave, and also because it's an American institution, and Joy Division didn't have the impact there that they did in Britain, so it's a way to acknowledge them, even though it's probably more of a New Order nomination. I've said many times in these threads that a British HOF, with Slade and the Jam and the Pet Shop Boys, etc., would be really interesting.

I think the Stranger Things/"Running Up That Hill" thing will help Kate Bush. So: Cramps 2024!

Maiden deserves their own hall of fame, they transcend this institution.

I think the Stranger Things/"Running Up That Hill" thing will help Kate Bush.

― clemenza, Wednesday, February 1, 2023 11:45 AM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

don't really get this. even if she doesn't get in this time, the hoopla has undoubtedly helped her establish her bonafides as an artist that carries serious cultural and commercial weight, especially in the u.s.

So you also think it will help her? I'm confused.

no idea how they'll fit the entire Maiden experience into whatever dusty corner of the Hall they shove them into. for one of the defining acts of the genre to be on the waiting list, ugh....foo fighters being enshrined before them is like collective soul getting in while led zep remains locked out.

if i had five: kate bush, iron maiden, joy division/new order, willie, tribe

i'm assuming of course the reality is it'll be sheryl crow, cyndi lauper, rage, soundgarden, white stripes

So you also think it will help her? I'm confused.

― clemenza, Wednesday, February 1, 2023 11:53 AM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

yes it will definitely help her, even if it means she gets in another time, not this year

i'm pro-soundgarden, tbh

also realizing i misread your post and thought you said it wouldn't help her lol xp to clemenza

from what I can know about him based on his work, writing style etc etc, I dislike Bill Wyman. He is one of those chicago area rockist he —or maybe neo-rockist— dudes like Dero and Greg Kot who like ROCK, don't seem to understand anything beyond that, and when they try to present an understanding of hip-hop or pop music or anything else, appear very "HELLO FELLOW KIDS" and seem to be unduly influenced by Dave marsh…

I used to read Wyma in the late '80s/early '90s, but his schtick was mostly propping up a kind of phony "authenticity" -- he absolutely trashed Truth Or Dare (and Madonna in general) for the film's supposed lack of "honesty," and there was some not-exactly-subtle misogyny in said trashing (I never got a Marsh vibe from Wyman in the least, and Marsh loved Truth Or Dare). Wyman is indeed hapless outside of (and often inside) his little box of "rock." On one episode of Sound Opinions he went on about how "free jazz" is "when you do what you want and you don't listen to the other musicians." To their credit, the co-hosts tried to correct him and rein him in, but Wyman kept digging. (See also his bizarre contention that "Rock Lobster" was not influenced by Yoko Ono, despite the B-52s explicitly and frequently stating otherwise.)

I think we can all (mostly) agree that all nominees deserve to be in some manner of hall of fame, but when I think about the R&RHOF it seems like the whole point is the ceremony, which implies the live performance, and a "classy" opportunity/excuse for certain people/combinations of people to perform one more time/pay tribute to people that have passed that are responsible for celebrated music...

And in that spirit I would be excited about maybe Kate Bush agreeing to sing on television once more, or Meg White playing the drums one more time, or Soundgarden with guest singers ala the Nirvana induction which I thought was excellent, or a similar kinda thing with George Michael, but y'know give all these people their flowers imo

Just want to point out that Link Wray is still not in. Not under "musical excellence," not an "early influence," nothing.

He is one of those chicago area rockist he —or maybe neo-rockist— dudes like Dero and Greg Kot who like ROCK

Beside the point of your post, but this is a little unfair to Kot. He's perhaps typical of critics of his generation in his affection for rock music and assuming its place in the center of the critical discourse, but he doesn't venerate the values of RAWK the way DeRo does, and his tastes are considerably more eclectic; he routinely champions other genres.

when Cornell passed I listened to a ton of Soundgarden and that band was incredible, I hadn't really listened to them closely, but what a group of musicians.

xp (Like, the Charlotte Adigery album was in his top 5 last year.)

Soundgarden was so fuckin good, i spent a fair amount of time during the pandemic listening to them while holed up and they're better than anyone remembers, just a deep rich sound and with one of the great singers in rock music.

some of the rock bands that have made it in during their period of eligibility are embarrassing to think about in comparison.

I think I posted this somewhere else, and it might be behind a paywall, but Marcus and Jon Landau talking about the HOF:

https://greilmarcus.substack.com/p/back-and-forth-with-jon-landau-on

(If it is behind a paywall, Landau has Link Wray on his list of 19 artists he thinks should be in. And he talks about the whole definition of "rock and roll" thing--Landau used to chair the nominating committee.)

Since you only get one vote here, I went with the Spinners. Not that they're necessarily the most obvious pick from that list, but they're the one that most should have been in long ago.

Voted Iron Maiden

UP THE IRONS

Cyndi Lauper is an intersting 'problem' inasmuch as I agree that she basically only has the one fantastic and impactful album (although I also stan pretty hard for Blue Angel)...but it's actually pretty goddamn impressive that she's basically still considered a part of the '80s pop pantheon on the basis of that one album (plus 'True Colors') (plus the Pee-wee's Playhouse theme) (plus this).

haven't predicted who i think will get in, so i might as well go on the record: white stripes, willie nelson, george michael, kate bush, rage against the machine

foo fighters/dave grohl got in during their first year of eligibility, so i think there's no reason why white stripes/jack white won't. feels like those two guys are the prevailing torch-bearers for old school, capital-r rock these days

yeah plus jack white's done all sorts of stuff like that paramount records old time blues box set, etc

I got no problem with JD/New Order as a unit -- it's politics, man.

Small relief that this year won't be as bad as last year.

The only nominee I would never consider is Sheryl Crow. Everyone else has something that makes their induction feel deserving.

(And it's almost a given Crow will get in based on their recent inductees.)

Encyclopaedia Britannica has a single article on Joy Division/New Order (written by Jon Savage).

Among artists who had one album disproportionately successful compared to everything else they ever did, I'd be hard pressed to think of one that covers every pathway to the HOF--sales, chart success, critical acclaim, influence, impact and fame in a general cultural sense--better than She's So Unusual. Maybe I'm overlooking something.

I agree w/birdistheword's initial comments re: Crow

(and not just as a matter of taste – e.g., I loathe RATM, but get why they're "deserving")

and now you do what they told ya

I think NO/JD gets in as The Cure broke the mold for these types of bands and Depeche Mode made it last year. George Michael and Soundgatden should also make it.

Yeah, Mottola’s got excellent taste.

Forgot, had Joy Division and New Order been inducted, Hook probably would have reunited with them at the ceremony. I’d be down with a cheeseball Parent Trap meets Angels in the Outfield movie where some kids try to reunite them by getting them inducted, only to have their hopes crushed…or so they think!

I have such low respect for (most) of the voters that I 100% believe that Kate Bush never would have made it in without Stranger Things (to be clear, she absolutely deserves it, but it wouldn't have happened if the music supervisor picked another '80s song to ressurect)


^^100% not even debatable

And "In Your Eyes" in Say Anything was originally shot with Fishbone's "Turn the Other Way" or whatever?

Cameron Crowe himself mentioned in a feature about the film published in Musician.

He was afraid Cusack would look like a crazed Fishbone fan.

quietly a little bummed that Cyndi Lauper didn’t make it in, but a decent crop of nominees nonetheless

and of course bummed at no Maiden obv but less surprised by that

Happy about the Spinners, surprised about Cyndi Lauper--she just seems such a perfect HOF choice. I know YMP has posted a few times about how completely arbitrary induction is, but I think she's one of the people who seems obvious on a number of fronts.

Yeah, I kind of wish you could swap out every elected inductee from last year (except Parton) and replace them with every nominee that didn't make it this year.

Torn between Cyndi Lauper and The White Stripes for who I'm most surprised didn't get in

Cyndi Lauper is definitely a gross oversight.

But do The White Stripes have any lasting stature beyond Williamsburg hipster clout?

I may not be too qualified to comment cause I mostly stopped listening to new rock around 2000 but it’s hard for me to think of many rock acts from the new millennium that really will ever qualify to be inducted. Eventually they’ll have to move away from rock or just continually lower their standards.

But do The White Stripes have any lasting stature beyond Williamsburg hipster clout?

I don't even like them, but have you ever attended a major league sporting event in the US? If you have, you have heard "Seven Nation Army" played over the stadium/arena PA.

No, I haven’t. But yeah that one song ok.

We should all just relax, because eventually Lil Nas X, Pantera, Bananarama, Nickelback, Steel Pulse, Roxette, Milli Vanilli, Cutting Crew, Tears for Fears, Taj Mahal, and the Spice Girls will all be in there. Even if the sequence doesn't make any rational sense.

I’m ride til I die team Steel Pulse. But again not much to draw on from the new millennium is there. I hope one day Superpitcher too will gain the recognition he deserves. Totally unironically.

Jesus Jones inducted in 20 years

Actually going on what ILM taught me I’m thinking Carl Craig was the top artist of the 00’s. ILM had much better taste back then didn’t it, or did I just manage to tune out all the knee jerk poptimist crap.

I love the White Stripes - I don't think Jack White has made a great album since his solo debut in 2012 and he still packs arenas ffs. (I went to his show at Barclays last year.) They'll get in eventually.

Otherwise, in terms of latter day acts, everyone I can think of will probably get in like fifteen or twenty years after they're eligible, maybe even more: Wilco, the Flaming Lips (both actually old but they peaked in the '00s), the Strokes, the Yeah Yeah Yeahs, LCD Soundsystem, TV on the Radio...the only 21st century rock act that would've got a quick induction IMHO is Arcade Fire, but that's not going to happen any more. Otherwise all the obvious 21st century predictions are pretty much hip-hop and pop acts.

My favourite band of the century, Wussy, has approximately a 1% chance at the moment.

They need to befriend the nominating committee and butter them up for an "Outstanding Achievement in the Field of Excellence" induction.

40 years ago they would have had a very powerful advocate in Christgau, but I believe his influence has waned somewhat.

IIRC Christgau and Greil Marcus were among the first to be approached about joining the nominating committee but refused to join - then proceeded to complain and criticize who got in and who didn't to this very day.

https://www.robertchristgau.com/xg/rock/fame-95.php

I've never read that, looks interesting. Marcus has written about his own change of heart on the HOF.

Wilco, the Flaming Lips (both actually old but they peaked in the '00s), the Strokes, the Yeah Yeah Yeahs, LCD Soundsystem, TV on the Radio

Wilco seems likeliest of this lot, simply because they've been around for a long time and keep putting out music that's generally well-respected. I don't really have a good sense of the Lips' reputation these days. Maybe they get in, but not for a long time. For as exciting as the Strokes, YYYs, and TVOTR were for a few years in the 2000s, they all seem too much like flashes in the pan now. I guess maybe the Strokes have a shot for having put out a single major album that represented a scene. LCD Soundsystem might have a better shot these days, if only because James Murphy has done a lot to burnish its reputation through the well-publicized farewell tour, documentary, comeback, etc.

Honestly, if we're talking 21st century rock bands, you probably can't count Coldplay and the Killers.

Coldplay will definitely get in. For a band that's as widely hated as Coldplay, 1) even this far into their career, they sell out not only arenas but STADIUMS - I saw firsthand when my partner (a huge fan) wanted to go see them at MetLife and I was like JFC Coldplay is this popular even now? 2) they're widely beloved in the rock and pop world. U2 and R.E.M. always went to them for advice when recording their albums (which they did indeed take), Jay-Z and Beyoncé are fans and went to the show I was at, Kanye West liked them enough to make Chris Martin a prominent guest star on Graduation, Frank Ocean sampled them, and Jay-Z, Rihanna and BTS all recorded hits with them. Hell SPRINGSTEEN was a surprise guest at the same show I attended...if I knew nothing about their music but read all this, I'd probably buy a few albums before I even tried them out.

I can't say I ever put them on before my partner came along, but objectively, I'd rather listen to Coldplay's Greatest Hits (if it existed) over the Eagles' Their Greatest Hits (1971–1975) any day.

Tool and System of a Down are more popular and maybe even better than most of these bands we’re talking about but critics hate them.

Like Tool and System of a Down can outsell any of these bands but they stay not getting the magazine covers and critics lists placement and RRHOF nods because poor white ppl listen to metal and rich white ppl listen to indie rock and rich white ppl stay running everything. Same reason Elvis Costello gets in 11 years before Rush.

Muse, Limp Bizkit, Smash Mouth, Matchbox 20, Paramore, Maroon 5, they’re all getting in sooner or later.

And it would have been such an easy layup for all the legacy rock media outlets to pivot from “Pearl Jam is our classic rock” to “Deftones is our classic rock” five years ago but everyone found different ways of ignoring an easy goal

It’s so wildly dumb that we (self included) get into an annual conversation about predicting the taste of a bunch of geriatric no-nothings for who gets to be in some arbitrary-yet-deeply-guarded list of famous people

I feel like Cyndi will get there. But the last couple years have sewn Eurythmics, Pat Benatar, Duran Duran, and Go-Gos, Lionel Richie, Janet Jackson, the Cars, and The Cure, so maybe they're pressing pause on early 80s pop for a bit.

the below is from this thread a few months ago… re: the booby/back door prizes awarded this year to Chaka Khan, Link Wray and Al Kooper (it is very odd that Kooper's admirers/pals on the nom committee couldn't make him happen until now)… expect Wyman's update to his most often banal ranking in Vulture in the next couple of days, in which he will huff and puff that George Micheal is a fluffy pop artist, rather like similar admonishments re: Jran Jran and Depeche Mode…

from what I can know about him based on his work, writing style etc etc, I dislike Bill Wyman. He is one of those chicago area rockist he —or maybe neo-rockist— dudes like Dero and Greg Kot who like ROCK, don't seem to understand anything beyond that, and when they try to present an understanding of hip-hop or pop music or anything else, appear very "HELLO FELLOW KIDS" and seem to be unduly influenced by Dave marsh… every time the RRhoF ceremony comes and goes, he updates his own ranking of the most to least worthy inductees, and his views are most often asinine and banal: if he was a poster here and presented his views as such in an unvarnished manner, he would be roundly jeered…

but he made an excellent point in the last such update: instead of the disingenous backdoor "early influences" and "excellence in music" booby prizes, the nominating committee should just come out and say "we are the nominating committee, and we are putting these two artists/acts in, and that's it, no voting, they're going in." The electorate —older bizzers, former alt paper lifers and other over 50s who truly care about voting and jealously guard their ability to do so— are never going to give the committee the results they (or most ILMniks, for that matter) want… doing so would not violate any principle or any such thing…

I'm also told by someone who should know that the journo/bizzers on the nominating committee, particularly the older people in their 60s/70s , are intimidated by Morello, Grohl and Questlove, like "geez, these guys are real musicians, and we're nerds who've created nothing or suits who've created nothing good, we should do what they say"; which is why Morello can push Priest in through the back door, and will surely try to do the same with Maiden…

RRHOF nods because poor white ppl listen to metal and rich white ppl listen to indie rock

this feels like maybe a total bullshit generalization idk

re Coldplay

U2 and R.E.M. always went to them for advice when recording their albums

STIPE: "Hey Chris, we can't quite decide whether to call the album 'Fables of the Reconstruction' or 'Reconstruction of the Fables.' What do you think?"

MARTIN: "What? I don't know who you are, and also I'm only 7 years old."

they went to 3-year-old martin for lyrical advice on murmur

Maiden is a global stadium-sized band, if they get in it's hardly through a back door?

they went to 3-year-old martin for lyrical advice on murmur

Evidently. "Gumby in...Gumby in...Gumby into town..."

Lol

Hah, yeah, "always went to them" isn't exactly accurate.

Re: Wyman, I double-checked to be sure, but he actually listed George Michael as one of the major omissions from the HOF when he first wrote that article. To be fair it doesn't mean he's personally a fan, but I guess that'll be clear when he updates it.

DeRogatis is definitely a "rockist" - it's embarrassing how often he's trashed or dismissed artists from Missy Elliott to Kendrick Lamar on very dubious grounds, only to completely reverse himself a few years later without a word of what he used to think.

Here's the earliest Missy Elliott review that came up in the Sun-Times article:

While Missy Elliott wowed the music industry and the pop and hip-hop worlds with her 1997 debut "Supa Dupa Fly," her tough-talking female gangsta persona struck me as a caricature of genuinely tough and multidimensional women such as Queen Latifah and Yo-Yo. Elliott amplified the attitude, but dropped the substance, creating a straight-faced alternative to Lil' Kim or Foxy Brown. And then she was universally hailed for this dubious accomplishment.

On her second disc, the chinks in her armor are obvious. Much as she claims she's in control of her life, art and business, producer Timbaland is the loudest voice here; his poppy, riff-crazed musical flavor is not a particularly inspired or original one. Factor in the wealth of cameos (by Da Brat, Eminem, Redman, Aaliyah and others) and you'll find yourself asking: Where the heck is Missy Elliott on this Missy Elliott album?

She pops up here and there, asking such charming questions as: "Would you still be in love, baby, if I cut your throat?" It's all tired posturing_empowering only in the sense that it proves that women rappers can be just as empty-headed as their male counterparts.

By 2005, he's praising Elliott and Timbaland as "one of the most groundbreaking pairings in hip-hop history."

Having said that, I don't think Greg Kot's in the same boat, mainly because it was his arguments with DeRogatis on WXRT that made it painfully obvious how doctrinal DeRogatis was about his idea of "rock." Not just a lot of hip-hop, but Dionne Warwick or anything country beyond Johnny Cash would be a point of contention. It was amusing considering how the show's intro emphasized that Kot was the ROCK critic for the Tribune and DeRogatis was the POP critic for the Sun-Times. The one phrase that stuck out for me was when DeRogatis dismissed Kot's defense of a pop-oriented recording with "I listen to ROCK & ROLL! What do YOU listen to?"

* the Sun-Times archive

haven't we been over this already?

Apparently we have - three months ago according to a quick search of this thread.