No more pallet puzzles: THE LAST OF US PART II

Lolllll that would be both extremely cruel and also extremely hilarious

The way the horses cause the snow to slough off those fir trees when you’re riding with Dina

<3 <3

Started playing this the other day (before playing the first, waiting for the pc release next month). Biggest stand out so far is THE SOUND! I just got a subwoofer and this game wooooorks it for those tense encounters with the underlying bass drone happening throughout. The dynamic range is great too, it’s nice to have fun shots and explosions have the volume of gunshots and explosions as opposed to everything existing at the same volume as it is with most games. Contributes greatly to the sense of “violence” talked about above when a gunshot booms out of nothing to take a life while a WLF starts screaming in agony. The silence and general ambience of puzzle/walk sections is great too, gives it a similar somber/epicness that no country for old men had for similar reasons. Going to miss the use of dynamic range the most when I move on to another game.

Wait, you're playing this one *first*?!

I agree w you about the sound H.P but they got carried away with the dynamic range for the dialogue. I am missing many key bits of conversation because I happen to be in the far corner of the room, or I've pivoted Ellie to face another direction, and the volume of the other character eg. Dina, Jess etc suddenly dips way below the music and sound effects. It's a surprising oversight. I've even reduced dynamic range in the settings to try and mitigate this but it hasn't helped much. I've also forced all dialogue into the center channel but that doesn't help much either.

I already spoiled this one for myself (dunkey), so why not just screw the whole thing? Nothing wrong with doing it this way imo.

I hear what you’re saying Tracer but I appreciate this as a creative decision. Want to talk to your friend? Actually be right ne y to them. Maybe it’s cause I’m playing with my speaker pumping (gunshots are loooooooud, worried what my neighbours think lol) but it hasn’t been a problem for me. In fact it has forced my hand into playing loud and as someone with the Hifi equipment I’m glad for it,

Lol that sounds pretty awesome - I am playing at night after my kids are in bed, my hand millimeters away from the volume control of the remote

I remember playing Grounded mode on Part 1 with headphones and it being a VERY immersive experience.. in fact, I often didn't really miss "Listen Mode" because actual listening with my ears was so accurately rendered that it was pretty clear where the clickers were

There were definitely times I missed dialogue prompts because I had wandered ahead a little, searching for supplies. Someone would be talking and kind of trail off, and by the time I noticed the interaction icon it would be too late to turn back and resume the conversation (afaict).

I suspect it’s a classic case of the sound designers all using extremely amazing headphones

It’s everyone else’s fault for not owning $1000+ headphones.

No kids yet, although I do have to tip toe around my wife with this game. Soon as she is home it has to go off. Half because of the sound, half because of literally everything else hahah

Kinda wish I was playing without listen mode now, feels like a bit of a crutch maybe I do t need. Don’t feel like the difficulty is out of control, then again I’ve only just reached the first Ellie + Joel flashback museum scene so maybe it ramps up

Unless you’re playing on Grounded you can always change the difficulty. Either in toto or for individual elements. Pretty much any setting you can think of is tweakable. Apart from a few rough patches I thought Normal was pretty easy. I would definitely do at least Hard.

I don't recall anything in Normal being particularly difficult, aside from a couple of brief bits that probably wouldn't benefit too much from listen mode. Though there are a couple of sequences iirc that I feel really need listen mode.

It's blowing my mind that the PS5 patch reportedly only upgrades the frame rate. This game looks incredible.

That keynote was great (and surprisingly only 40 minutes of the YouTube video, the rest is audience questions). Really cool to see how long and how many iterations the core story went through (wow at the Mankind concept... glad they turned around on that!) Definitely kinda surprised as Druckmann explained his truth behind TLOU1's ending, I admit I completely bought into the generally accepted interpretation when I played it - that Ellie was basically accepting Joel's actions complicitly - the way he breaks it down here shows how naturally it leads into Part II's story.

Man, some people ...

Bro I have not been on Naughty Dog's payroll since 2017. I am not their complaint department. I think you forgot a cc on this one, champ.

CW: Harassment, Threats, Stupidity pic.twitter.com/mwDXorDj5M

— Jocelyn (@Jocelyn_Mettler) February 16, 2023

And speaking of, I've been going back and reading prominent reviews, and ... they're mostly so full of shit to the extent that it emphasizes either how much of this went over their heads or how maybe (more likely?) they weren't ready for what they got. Like people rioting after "The Rite of Spring" or something. "This is clearly good, but not what I wanted, and kind of makes me uncomfortable, so ... I'm mad! And I'm not quite sure why!"

fans think they’re in the game. you’re not in the game. you’re in the stands

I've read a couple takes that try to make the case that it's the fans that are being *too generous* to the game! Can't catch a break, if you like it, you're just a fan, but if you're a fan, you're gonna hate it. I suppose the flipside is that everything one thinks the game does right *or* wrong sort of ratifies its accomplishments. But people like certainty and hate ambiguity, and if a game makes them feel bad or angry, then clearly it must be the game's fault(s), and absolutely no way is it possible that by making millions of people feel the same or similar ways is actually a sign of success, right? (And these are, of course, the at least purportedly good faith attempts at criticism, overlooking lunatics like the person I just posted who, years later, is still harassing the *body model* that "played" Abby).

Face model.

Idk, I can very easily see why people, non-CHUD division, might not enjoy the game in a way where they make a good faith effort to engage in it. It's the same reason why I recommend the game with serious caveats.

My only caveat would be it's not for the squeamish, but in that sense it's not too different from the first one, just more intense; there are great movies I don't recommend for the same reasons. But I really don't see how how someone who liked the first one wouldn't appreciate ("enjoy" might be too strong a word) this one. I've come across a few "blah blah gameplay blah" takes, and imo that's BS. I've yet to see more or less *any* game (short of From stuff) where the gameplay doesn't get old or repetitive by the end.

when the gameplay is good repetitiveness is a virtue

Haha I got very tired of Bloodborne by the time I got to the start of the Micolash stage.

Gameplay, the sequel is a huge step forward, but it's the story that I find needs to be approached carefully. The unflinching depiction of the corrosive effects of violence is an incredibly narrow line that the writers have to walk, and it's very easy for me to see why it tips towards the unbearable for some people. It's also a significantly longer game IIRC, and where the first game has a through line that gradually blossoms into a perverse kind of hope, the hope here is attenuated, gated behind story progression, and buried under loads of brutality, which can just be overwhelming.

yeah agree w that

Yeah, I don't disagree, either. But it all feels like a logical progression to me. Hope is nice to have, and of course this second game is about what replaces hope if/when you lose it, and I think that story only works in tandem with the first game, which ... yeah, it's a delicate balance. So I concede that just because something works doesn't mean it works for everyone. That said, having watched that semi-viral "Sacrificial Trash" video, I'm not entirely willing to believe that *all* negative reviews of this game don't somehow stem from the chudiest of chud takes, which preceded the game by weeks/months. There was a noxious cloud reviewers had to navigate, which is why a lot of the spoiler-free takes I'm belatedly absorbing are packed with cagey caveats or disclaimers or claims of good faith criticism in light of all the noise, etc., all of which makes it seem unlikely this game was ever going to be able to get a fair shake.

I'm not entirely willing to believe that *all* negative reviews of this game don't somehow stem from the chudiest of chud takes

Dude:

https://kotaku.com/the-last-of-us-part-ii-the-kotaku-review-1844006193

Everything in The Last of Us 2 takes work. Every weapon reload, killing blow, and crafted item takes time and button presses. At times the game is painfully slow; even in the most action-packed sections you put in effort to move things forward. You’re paid for this work in a grim story and explicit violence. It can be exciting and beautiful, but mostly I just felt like shit.

...

TYPE OF GAME
Misery simulator

https://www.polygon.com/reviews/2020/6/12/21288535/the-last-of-us-part-2-review-ps4-naughty-dog-ellie-joel-violence

That is the game’s central problem, and what makes so much of it such a challenge to get through: This is a story about characters who seem unable to learn or grow, and more specifically, unable to consider the humanity of the people they kill. If you already think violence isn’t the answer to many of the world’s problems, the repeated lesson that killing is bad makes the game almost maddening.

Whatever you think of the current quality of Polygon and Kotaku, they err on the side of social justice.

No, I get it. I've seen a few reviews like that, from reputable sources. I just mean that even those reputable reviews came under the cloud of the stupid backlash, about how even good faith negative reactions can be heightened by bad-faith reactionaries. Or summed up somewhere as "when something becomes fuel for a culture war, it becomes extremely hard to provide genuine criticism of that media because it is impossible for anyone to separate genuine critique from bigots hiding behind genuine critique to try and tear down the 'woke sjw trash' they hate. And even if you are providing that genuine criticism, you are accidentally helping push that culture war narrative for the chuds."

i'm with Josh on this one, the majority of negative takes (as i recall at the time) were generally not well-argued criticism

even the "yes, murder is wrong!" snark is incredibly reductive of what the game puts you through

i remember the "type of game: misery simulator" bit though, still love that

i don't remember if it was that review or another one that talked about how ugly and loud the gun sounds are but otm in any case, it's p brutal

i still cackle though whenever ellie gets her neck chomped by a clicker, i can't help it

Ugh, I still try and pause the clicker chomping scenes to quickly “restart encounter” so I don’t have to hear it. Yet every time, the game says, “no, you WILL watch this”. I don’t attempt to pause because it’s offensive or “bad”, but because it’s intense. That intensity seems to be at the root of most “good-faith” criticism, but I really don’t see it as a point against. It’s the key ingredient to the magic of the game, its commitment to truthfully following out consequences. Those ugly and loud gun sounds are the best damn thing about this game. The sound design is incredible. Every gunshot is a consequence. Even the resource management goes into it. I unloaded a full clip of my pistol into one WLF’er yesterday and was in dread about how I was going to deal with the next one I ran into with no resources lol.

This game has sucked me in far more than others do, and it’s because of the exact things it gets critiqued for.

The sound design *is* nuts. You can hear how close or far the enemies are, or where the bullets or arrows are hitting, that sort of thing. You can hear the baddies yelling to one another from different spots. It's amazing and scary.

I take back all praise. I just reached Abby section and met the dog……… wtf why did they have to bring dogs into this mess :(

My Swiss Shepherd is lying next to me while I’m playing and I’m feeling her harsh judgement. Time to turn the tv off, touch grass, and heal my soul with some doggy time

Speaking of truthfully following out consequences… I know it’s a non-issue in the end but you cannot tell me Mel and her baby were simply fine with very bumpy car chases, gunshots, climbing a rope, pressing one’s belly against steel beams to climb platforms, etc. like wtf, I don’t know much about pregnancy but I know those activities typically don’t align with a pregnant woman’s lifestyle for good reason.

Also also, confused as to why “Abby” is typically referred to as the villain in reviews/dialogue about this game. From pretty early, really as soon as you find out why Abby’s party was going for Joel (even before you find out it’s Abby’s dad), the game changes. I think it’s when you’re in the flashback scene where Ellie’s listening to the tape saying an immune person would be pointless now since we don’t have the doctors to make a cure anymore. Abby’s story seems a lot more justified than Ellie’s from that point

That's what I'm talking about. Reveals the limitations/laziness of the then contemporaneous discourse that she was often described as a villain just because she did a (the) bad thing, in a game full of people doing equally bad things. You can tell who the villains are in this game because, like most fodder, they don't have names (whistling crazies, Santa Barbara dudes).

It’s not even that it’s grey, it’s that Abby is genuinely more justified that Ellie (not to say Abby is right, she’s just lesson the wrong than Ellie).

Joel kills Abby’s dad with the add on bonus of dooming humanity. Abby kills Joel which really doesn’t even make things even on the eye-for-an-eye scale due to that aforementioned bonus. Ellie then kills everyone she can in response, again as opposed to Abby’s gang where only a single person gets offed (well, minus Jesse, but still, the math stacks against Ellie)

If there’s a main character that needs to be called a villain in this game, it goes to Ellie/Joel by default.

*less in the wrong

If your ethics are utilitarian, Joel is the villain, if they are deontologist then Ellie is the villain. It’s only if your ethics are “don’t kill the dude I played as last game!” That Abby can be the villain.

If your ethics are based upon who kills the most dogs (the correct ethical theory), well, I’ve said enough

I think that's call deondoglogism.

They didn’t teach that one in my intro to philosophy course

I'm imagining railroad tracks split into two paths, one in which a single human is tied up on them and another in which five dogs are tied up. Here comes the trolley...

"Last of Us 2" discourse is trolley vs. trolls.

y'all... got some IRL flashbacks last week:

https://i.imgur.com/Ph4l55A.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/7qjUQwH.jpg

Wow.

A friend of mine who is even less up to date on the last few decades of games came over for a beer the other night. He got a hoot out of the chaos and cartoonish cruelty of "Hitman," so just for balance I had him play the first several playable bits of LoU2. At first he kind of joked around, focusing mainly on the look of the game and his own inept gameplay, but as he got sucked in, and experienced his first enemies/set pieces, he stopped cracking jokes and admitted the game was making really unsettled and anxious.

So my current critical crush Jacob Geller* co-hosts a podcast called Something Rotten (as well as a regular guest on the MinnMax (sic) podcast, also a recommendation), and they're digging into Part II, and it's been worthwhile so far, as it goes beyond the typical "this game makes me feel bad" takes.

* A selection of 'tubes to watch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8n2DHiGp8E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQQdnve5fQk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5DqmTtCPiQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS5NeNglQYw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q85l1Fenc5w

Cool, thanks!

Started the podcast episode about LoU2 and think I'm going to go back and listen to the one about Part 1 first. As they say in the second one, it's kind of remarkable how two games and, only recently, a TV show have been enough to sustain this level of discourse for a decade.

I started the podcast episode about the first game. It's good so far, but whoever the hosts are are weirdly catty about it. Like, you know the game is good, you keep saying the game is good, you admit you might be a little tired of it because you've played it so many times, but you've done that because the game is good. So don't sigh and act like watching the TV show was some exhausting experience because it was so familiar to you. Not a deal breaker by any stretch, just a little irritating.

I do find it interesting when they address the 2013 discourse, because as far as I can remember, I had no idea the game existed in 2013. Just totally passed me by. I mean, I didn't have a PlayStation, so there's that. But for a game with so much praise and acclaim, it still managed to go under my radar as a non-gamer civilian.