Autechre: Classic or Dud?

Man, Ae change attitudes towards formats a fair bit. I love these albums. I want them on a plastic slab

LP5 has so much bass it causes the needle to jump around if your turntable’s cheap

lp5 is also so crisp and clear that it feels like it should be listened to on CD

xp but would you like the plastic to be vinyl or polycarbonate?

I tried listening to Gonkcast, and it's decent enough (I certainly can't imagine trying to talk about Autechre out loud for this long), but I kinda feel like they're not nerdy *enough* about music and production for the task? Like, I want to listen to someone who really has hands-on experience with Max/MSP and can dig into what's going on in some of the tracks (like I think they were saying Cichli is in 4/4, I WOULD NEVER).

Anyway it's just making me want to go back and listen to the records, which is good. Confirmed once again that I don't get as much out of Tri Repetae as others seem to, and that Chiastic Slide is a big time classic for me.

Also listening to the recent NTS influences mix in chunks, so much good ahead-of-its-time stuff.

"I want to listen to someone who really has hands-on experience with Max/MSP and can dig into what's going on in some of the tracks (like I think they were saying Cichli is in 4/4, I WOULD NEVER)."

If you are looking for detailed commentary on Autechre, I recommend the description of "Gantz Graf" at the 5:4 blog:

https://5against4.com/2022/08/05/20-years-on-autechre-gantz-graf/

Now that's what I'm talking about, thanks!

the "embarrassing" review linked in the NME is a lot more entertaining than that blog post, even though the cliches in it about intellectual european idm listeners were already 10 years old 20 years ago

that blog post is funny because it tries to pass itself off as a very technical explanation of the track, but when you really get down to it, the writer is just saying "this part is noisy" / "this part is less noisy" / "this part sounds more like beats", with a lot of around those ideas

a lot of *padding around those ideas

yeah, honestly i just want to see a screenshot of their max/msp patch

there's a useful and simple test i like to apply to bullshit music criticism like this, and it's to replace any of the meaningless details with a different meaningless detail and then ask myself whether the meaning would be altered in any way. if not, then bingo, i was right, it really IS meaningless detail

example: when author says "the way that the five pitches are used throws emphasis onto the intervals, strengthening their connectivity." imagine the author had said FOUR pitches, or THREE pitches, or SIX or NINETEEN. would it make any difference?

here's another: "Throughout this sequence, the underlying beats, though complex, don’t meaningfully change at all, working to support this melody. Though low in the mix, Autechre tease it out slightly by putting just a touch of reverb onto each note"

what if the author had said ECHO or COMPRESSION or PHASER or DISTORTION instead of "reverb"? would we care?

haha, good points tlg.

i mean okay, if autechre use reverb and not delay it would be silly to say "putting a small delay onto each note". but assuming they did use delay, would it now "undermine the melody" instead of "support" it?

or would that depend less on the production technique and more on whether the listener chooses to hear autechre as intellectual wank or high grade experimental art?

i make this point with confidence only because i also "danced about architecture" in my youth as a detroit techno blogger.

eventually i realized it was better just to post yt links and that it's more fun to criticize dj's living rooms and haircuts than it is do music criticism

You might not have got much out of the linked blog post, tlg, but it is certainly not bullshit or meaningless detail. It's also not an exercise in music criticism but analysis. When Mr. Cummings speaks about the way those five pitches are used, emphasizing those particular intervals, yes, writing “four” or “three” would completely change the point (because the resulting track would have been completely different in terms of tonal centre).

so would three or four vs five have weakened the connectivity between the intervals? strengthened it to a lesser degree? strengthened it to a greater degree?

Close listening is cool. Reading other people's musical analysis can help. Yeah there were details I glossed over, but I enjoyed reading + listening along. Not every track would benefit from that, but this one is so dense that a map is useful.

yes, i definitely can see how one might have missed the Development (1:39) and Transition (3:11) without a helpful explainer!

Have you tried reading the blog post and connecting the words in it to the sounds you hear in the track? Just a thought.

I get what you're saying but I think if you're compelled to listen to podcasts or read articles like this when the band already has 100 hours of material out then maybe those details really do matter to you. Personally it gave me a few things to think about, given the track itself is total chaos. Now when sites run reviews of their albums that sound like this then yeah I think it's a bit wanky. But I guess that's the point of "gonkcast"

Someone on twitter pointed out this sick unofficial video that someone made in '08:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsNbUlyERV0

Have you tried reading the blog post and connecting the words in it to the sounds you hear in the track? Just a thought.

― what have I done to deserve you (lukas)

the problem is not that this is impossible, or even challenging, but that 75% of the adjectives and technical terms in that article could be arbitrarily replaced with other words and it would be just as easy to connect the words to the music

the parts that make the most sense to me are the parts where he goes "oh wow this part is chaotic!" or "oh wow this part is building tension!" or "oh wow i hear a pattern coming out of the chaos!" but you can do that just as easily without pointing out that the pattern is A – C – A – Bb – Eb – C – Bb – Bb – Gb – C – Bb – A – C – Bb – Eb – C – Bb – Bb – Gb – C – Bb and in fact i wonder whether it even matters that it's A – C – A – Bb – Eb – C – Bb – Bb – Gb – C – Bb – A – C – Bb – Eb – C – Bb – Bb – Gb – C – Bb and not some other sequence of notes

tlg, I'm led to wonder if you you any training in music. The reason it matters that it is that particular pattern of notes is, again, that pattern of notes (though the specific intervals between them) determines the overall harmony of the track. Which is a very different use of harmony from pop music, and different even from most of the Warp scene with which Autechre was first associated.

And this sort of analysis does capture why this era of Autechre’s work might appeal to those (like Mr. Cummings or myself) who were already fans of twentieth-century avant-garde composers like Boulez or Ferneyhough.

i did weekly classical piano theory lessons including annual exams for about 10 years (age 7-17), so yeah i’m familiar with all these terms

on the other hand i don’t have formal training in rhetoric, though i can spot when someone is questioning my ability to understand the text while also dodging my specific questions about the text

Like I said, there are details in that I don't care about, but it's so nice to read something that isn't just "it's like listening to robot bees!" on the one hand or "Autechre's music limns the lacunae of modernity" on the other.

It would be interesting to see something like that in video form where the writer tries to recreate the track (or get as close to it as they can)

Hey now what's wrong with robot bees already

the last music analysis / "deep dive" thing i actually enjoyed was this drukqs review. i think she does a good job of both formal analysis and gesturing at the affects of the music. it helps that the sound sources and track styles in druqks are so varied and electro-acoustic. someone doing this for autechre would probably have to share their screen a lot lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DO_zMfLpjqI

that's a great video, one of the best i've seen of the "musician reacts!" genre, thanks!

about 13:30 in, she says something that sums up most of what i could say: "that Richard is thinking of things like scales and chords...I doubt it, I think a lot of us aren't, actually, this is just one way to name what i'm hearing, he's just doing what sounds good, or sounds weird, or whatever he likes, whatever he's trying to do"

i don't, personally, get anything at all out of music "analysis". i think it is very helpful for people who are making or thinking of music in formal ways. i don't. there's a comparison to be made to painting analysis. i didn't care at all, before i started painting. now that i do, it greatly interests me HOW painters made what they did. for god's sake, please tell me that they used a rag to smear some paint, or that they applied some glossy medium at the very beginning, or that they let the whole thing dry for a month and then scraped back down to what was underneath. i need to know that stuff and want to know it. but none of that was interesting or useful to me before i started trying to do it myself. at that time, i only cared about what i was seeing, not about the how. now i care about both the what and the how.

i understand that's not how everyone listens to music or approaches more analytic pieces. some people who have never touched an instrument have a deeply felt need to understand how it happened, mechanically. but i think, for a lot of people, the analysis is aimed at people in the field

also, no joke about wanting to see the max/msp patch - i think doing the musical analysis of, oh, those notes are A – C – A – Bb – Eb – C – Bb – Bb – Gb – C – Bb – A – C – Bb – Eb – C – Bb – Bb – Gb – C – Bb is kind of completely missing the point with autechre. i really do think the art is in the patch

*giant "IMO" and "we all enjoy music and enjoy reading about it in different ways, i get that" sign behind a plane flying over a beach*

there are times where I feel like autechre has ruined all other music for me

it's certainly difficult to find other music with this much depth

yeah, honestly i just want to see a screenshot of their max/msp patch

― President of Destiny Encounters International (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 14 February 2023 20:36 (one month ago) link

you're in luck: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgMArRJswIQ

I don't think there's been any discussion of Hanalgig - nothing in the search under that anyway. A mix tape by sean, exai era, demos & gescom stuff. Tracks 5 and 6 are great, classic late period ae imo, most of the rest is novelty/historical value but it's worth at least one listen and some of the gescom stuff might appeal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4OGY3awVeg

Huh, didn't know about this. Thanks!

I think I delved into this when it was mentioned during the most recent Sean AMA Twitch sesh. Last three or four tracks are where it's at with this imho but nothing is super memorable. There's a reason they're all cutting room floor tracks.

Stakker cover is pretty solid for me

It’s time for new Autechre, isn’t it

Yeah just about. It's been nice to go back to some of the older release and do some rediscovering

No idea what they'd do. I'd be really happy with just 12 really good tracks like with SIGN and then an adjoining EP

Yeah just about. It's been nice to go back to some of the older release and do some rediscovering

yeah today is cichlisuite

I would love to see a remix compilation. Most of theirs from 93-2000 are pretty incredible. Def some stinkers like that infamous Skinny Puppy remix, but so many gems, like the Dominique Dalcan and Beaumont Hannant remixes!

Here's the latter for reference:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HN3K-nqPSOc

I listened to confield today, still a fantastic experience. last week i tried dublin from the 16-18 live sets, the last 20 mins is solid wow but up till then it just doesn't hold my interest, maybe headphones would make a difference. can't wait for last year's sets to come out.

*plays NTS Sessions at half speed to fulfil fantasy of 16 hour album*

Is this the longest we've gone between autechre releases?

Anyway, I guess this is finally giving me time to really dig into the live stuff they released (both the 14-15 live sets and the 16-18 ones, listening to Toronto_011015 right now). Kind of fun to lisen to these and notice the subtle changes from one set to the next, it's like listening to a slightly different version of the same album every time.

for most artists I like "this is the longest they've gone without an album" makes me go "uh oh hope everything's ok with them" but for Autechre it's "uh oh hope the next thing isn't 16 hours long"

Exai > elseq - three years two months (lp5 > confield and untilted > quaristice were almost three years)

Feels like the gap between Untilted and Quaristice was significant but maybe not

Two and a half years since Plus, so not an abnormal amount of time I suppose