rank the songs on STICKY FINGERS

I like the Dead

cool. . . so you agree ;)

i also agree they are dorks and talked about too much so i'll shut up. . .

I just think it might be cool if everyone could calm down not act like they invented improvising.

FWIW, I don't think that (and didn't say that)! I'll cop to it perhaps being a lazy off-the-cuff comparison – though I don't think it's out of bounds for a jam on a 1971 rock album.

The Dead seem a lot easier to avoid than the Stones. Like no one is going to force you to listen to a bunch of bootlegs (unless you make poor dating choices)

2nd half of CYHMK sounds a lot more like they're trying to sound like Santana than the Dead.

yeah i'd always felt like it was a santana thing. i like it, for what it is, though the first half is so good and tight i wish they'd made it 7-plus min of that.

It's funny, I looked up the song earlier and saw this Keith quote:

The jam at the end wasn't inspired by Carlos Santana. We didn't even know they were still taping. We thought we'd finished. We were just rambling and they kept the tape rolling. I figured we'd just fade it off. It was only when we heard the playback that we realised, Oh, they kept it going. Basically we realised we had two bits of music. There's the song and there's the jam.

Don't know why he goes out of his way to specify that it WASN'T inspired by Santana(?) Maybe the interviewer suggested that or something

I expect it wasn't the first time the comparison had been made.

Santana covered the song too

The source page for that quote also has Mick saying:

We did this at Olympic and the jam at the end was an afterthought. It comes in two pieces, this rock song with this added jam. It's slightly Carlos Santana-like, Mick Taylor plays a bit of that style, I think. I don't think we meant that, but somehow it added on and I think this was done really quickly, too.

There's a bit of "East-West" in there too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvWvOwLCWGg

I guess it would have to be "Moonlight Mile", which is probably the one I'd be least likely to listen to as a stand-alone track, but don't get me wrong, it's still a good song, and it's better than good in the context of the album, where it kind of feels like a glimpse of redemption as the first rays of sun peak through the curtains after a long night of doing things that are not great for one's health.

Moonlight Mile is my favorite song on the album, though I might like it a bit less now that I just found out the lyric isn't "I'm just living to be dying by your side" which I thought was a cool inversion and Mick/Keith's take on a VU-style drug ode like Heroin.

xps the song is expressing their disgust with slavery and imperialism much like stray cat blues is expressing their disgust with men molesting teenagers and under my thumb is expressing their disgust with patriarchal abuse and midnight rambler etc

I'm pretty sure all this was seen as fucked up at the time - that's what made it edgy - but BS is the kind of thing that would end a band in a just world and the half century of rock fans and critics defending and celebrating it is a repulsive spectacle

it's bad enough that I think of this album as one I hate even though I enjoy 80% of it to varying degrees

unlike the morally spotless avatars of rightiousness who exist today, the stones had the indecency to incriminate even themselves.

note how "scarred old slaver" in the first verse becomes "i" later in the song.

greil marcus thinking it through in real time:
https://greilmarcus.net/2014/08/06/rolling-stones-sticky-fingers-1071/

as a text it's certainly more generative than the average racist or sexist classic rock song and it does kind of give the game away- if white rock in general is the GOP then brown sugar is trump. but you don't have to hand it to them for nailing the ugliness at the heart of the genre so vividly

I see Greil provides another touchpoint for the "CYHMK" jam:

(T)he song rocks through its few minutes of glory like few songs ever have. If they eventually blow the performance by jerking the listener, as if someone had punched a button from WROK to WJAZ, into a pleasant and pallid excursion into what reminds me more of the Ventures than anything else, then again, this is part of their confusion and their inability to know what to do with their music, their talent, and their own best impulses.

xpost
and merging it with their most concise and powerful rocker into the bargain. i think it is a mistake to equate sexist classic rock with the GOP, thereby safely placing it "over there" and enabling anyone else to wash their hands of any inconvenient truths. but maybe that's why i'm persona non grata on the politics threads.

sure i'm complicit in racial capitalism and my repudiation of mick jagger is in part an attempt to distance myself from that unpleasant fact

is it hypocritical to find his wallowing and savouring of his position distasteful

short of abolishing myself or embracing the worst of reality the options seem to be to throw my hands up and say it's complicated or to bitch and moan about the worst excesses in the hope that they become harder to defend more generally and then idk

i'm not going to defend the song and i am sure there are many things about the stones' personal lives i do not want to know about. wyman's marriage to a teenager, for instance, was revolting, and i'm sure there would be more dirt if i dug into it. but i don't think that means i need to put away my stones records forever or anything. at this point these records are over 50 years old; dipping into them is like pulling out my copy of moby dick. they're just there, part of the culture.

the most insidious thing about them was probably the misogyny, actually. but like, understanding this aspect of their music and rock culture in the 60s and 70s helps explain the limitations and even the failures of the counterculture. i don't know what cancelling would accomplish at this point except whitewashing this history.

Greil's question seems apt:

The leer may be a parody, but is it still a leer?

And I think the answer is yes. The song in a way is a descendant of noir novels like Jim Thompson's The Killer Inside Me that trick you into rooting for a sociopath and then leave you wriggling on the hook to deal with your own feelings of guilt afterwards. Irony is no defense. I don't think the song should be defended. Its extremely toxic. Luckily its much easier to avoid now than I guess it was in the summer when Greil was writing that piece and it was blaring from every FM radio.

lolita is like this too, i think

the culture is kind of shit in a lot of ways (sure so am i as a product of it). there is racism in moby dick (in a vaguely similar semi-knowing kind of way) and calling that out isn't the same as wanting to burn it or being unable to understand nuance and complexity or whatever. the kids who don't like huck finn aren't wrong or stupid or unable to understand what it's trying to do either, they just know it's not good enough. if that's cancel culture then i'm all for it

"Moonlight Mile" is the greatest closing track of the era, minimum.

i still prefer exile, but nothing on that is as good as dead flowers

"Loving Cup" is.

"Sister Moonlight"s sometimes too affected for me to enjoy until Ry Cooder's solo slaps my face.

frankly they peaked with she's a rainbow / 2000 light years and i wish they (and other psych bands) hadn't felt the need to retreat into the rootsy bluesy manly rut they've largely been stuck in since 68

i love that stuff too but i disagree

idk they got pretty swishy with the rock-disco stuff later in the decade. I wish they'd recorded an album's worth of "Let Me Go" and "When the Whip Comes Down"s.

"am i rough enough?"

"Waiting on a Friend" was their last great song.

Rolling Stones 1968-1972 is the most unfuckwithable run in music history

Best four-album run in rock history, hands down.

frankly they peaked with she's a rainbow / 2000 light years

I'm glad you're speaking out with such frankness, but, as much as I love "She's a Rainbow," that strikes me as absurd.

rootsy bluesy manly rut

One of the things that makes Beggars Banquet my choice for best Stones album is that they retained a lot of the psychedelic haze that was soon cleared away by Mick Taylor, saxophones, and the whole barroom ambience.

stripped is good, imo

their best disco is dance part 2 (if I was a dancer)