pre-odelay, post-mellow gold, so i think it fits in the "post-beck" mode
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYerwwTV5qc
― sault bae (voodoo chili), Thursday, 19 January 2023 15:11 (one year ago) link
xxp there was a strain of artists I feel were more specifically influenced by Beck though, like Cornershop's "When I Was Born for the Seventh Time" album.― Chris L, Thursday, January 19, 2023 8:03 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglinkCornershop had been around since before Beck though, i think they are much more of an outgrowth of UK post baggy stuff
― Chris L, Thursday, January 19, 2023 8:03 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink
Cornershop had been around since before Beck though, i think they are much more of an outgrowth of UK post baggy stuff
On a not dissimilar note I've seen Tequila (Mint Roayle Shot) referred to as Beck-ish before. Which I don't see at all - that party kitschy big beat pop was just more or less what Mint Royale did (at at least at the time).
Again, Space weren't Odelay-inspired at all but I'm curious if anyone in the US took to modest alt radio hit Female of the Species in that way?
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Thursday, 19 January 2023 15:18 (one year ago) link
From Eric Harvey's retrospective review of Stereolab's Dots and Loops:
Let’s call the most adventurous, sample-driven and style-copping music of this period “recombinant pop.” Around the world, musicians who came of age during the 1980s were digging through an ever-increasing archive and using digital software to redefine alternative music through the looped, sampled, and collaged productions of hip-hop and electronic music. Per an influential sociological study published in late 1996, “omnivorous inclusion,” had emerged as the defining characteristic for highbrow music nerds, a position, the researchers concluded, that was “better adapted to an increasingly global world managed by those who (show) respect for the cultural expressions of others.” Gone was rock’s romantic authenticity, drawn from the soul of the poet. “It was not so hard to accept the ersatz as ultimate authenticity,” cultural critic Geoffrey O’Brien argued in an examination of Burt Bacharach’s sudden return to fashion at this moment. “The point is not roots but connections, the more far-fetched the better.” A January 1998 SPIN feature on so-called “Sound Boys” argued similarly that “song-based rock music has ceded cutting-edge status to pure sonic exotica.” The rock and pop world had finally met Stereolab on its terms.1996 and 1997 were a tipping point for recombinant pop. Penultimate Dots and Loops track “Ticker-Tape of the Unconscious” opens with a sample from Gal Costa’s Tropicalia gem “Divino, Maravilhoso,” and its brisk, undulating rhythm track sounds a bit like Timbaland or the Neptunes trying their hand at lounge jazz. Along with Emperor, those two years were heady: Beck’s Odelay, Cornershop’s When I Was Born for the 7th Time, Cibo Matto’s Viva! La Woman, DJ Shadow’s Endtroducing....., Fat Boy Slim’s Better Living Through Chemistry and Daft Punk’s Homework each created era-defining beat music that sampled broadly from global sources. The Beastie Boys’ Grand Royal label released the throwback roller-rink funk of Luscious Jackson, while Matador was handling stateside releases of Tokyo lounge-pop weirdos Pizzicato Five and Cornelius’ Fantasma, the peak of Keigo Oyamada’s dense, sample-laden Cornelius project.
1996 and 1997 were a tipping point for recombinant pop. Penultimate Dots and Loops track “Ticker-Tape of the Unconscious” opens with a sample from Gal Costa’s Tropicalia gem “Divino, Maravilhoso,” and its brisk, undulating rhythm track sounds a bit like Timbaland or the Neptunes trying their hand at lounge jazz. Along with Emperor, those two years were heady: Beck’s Odelay, Cornershop’s When I Was Born for the 7th Time, Cibo Matto’s Viva! La Woman, DJ Shadow’s Endtroducing....., Fat Boy Slim’s Better Living Through Chemistry and Daft Punk’s Homework each created era-defining beat music that sampled broadly from global sources. The Beastie Boys’ Grand Royal label released the throwback roller-rink funk of Luscious Jackson, while Matador was handling stateside releases of Tokyo lounge-pop weirdos Pizzicato Five and Cornelius’ Fantasma, the peak of Keigo Oyamada’s dense, sample-laden Cornelius project.
― jaymc, Thursday, 19 January 2023 15:20 (one year ago) link
Agree with everyone saying that, as big as Odelay was, a lot of this stuff was also "in the air" generally at that point. On a nostalgia kick recently, I listened to every song that was on the Billboard alt-rock charts in 1996, and there's just a ton of alt-rockers playing with sampled drum loops on it.
― intheblanks, Thursday, 19 January 2023 15:26 (one year ago) link
I was actually just thinking of that one. I often have trouble remembering what it sounds like and instead "Deadweight" or "Readymade" will come to mind.
― billstevejim, Thursday, 19 January 2023 15:26 (one year ago) link
Odelay broke recombinant pop the way Nevermind broke punk
― Motion to adjourn to enjoy a footling (President Keyes), Thursday, 19 January 2023 15:27 (one year ago) link
lol very witty
yeah, Female of the Species was a little blip in the US. It was obviously much bigger in the UK, and tied in with that whole Scott Walker revival that was never a thing in America. But it did get some airplay and MTV used it as ident music i think.
Agree with everyone saying that, as big as Odelay was, a lot of this stuff was also "in the air" generally at that point.
Relieved, tbh. The thread premise annoys me.
― The field divisions are fastened with felicitations. (Deflatormouse), Thursday, 19 January 2023 15:53 (one year ago) link
agree with everyone saying this strain of stuff was in the air at the time and def don’t want to give beck credit for popularizing it. i’d say he rode the wave, esp since he’d already gotten famous from “mellow gold” and this sort of retro-kitsch sampleadelia wasn’t a huge part of that (though i definitely recall my high school self thinking that “beercan” was kinda like b-52s BUT COOL)
question is does anyone like any of this stuff that wasn't by beck
― ufo, Thursday, January 19, 2023
since nobody’s said the word yet, i just think of odelay as a type of fun trip hop, like the other artists in jaymc’s post (well maybe not stereolab), and not particularly related to smash mouth etc (aside from chunk of fanbase)
waterface’s post resonates with me too. this is like his least cool album, in retrospect
― the late great, Thursday, 19 January 2023 15:57 (one year ago) link
But if the stuff was in the air and Beck earned a double platinum out of it, then he popularized it, therefore he deserves credit. I'm not following you?
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 19 January 2023 16:00 (one year ago) link
*double platinum album
this was also Prince Paul/Paul's Boutique influence seeping into Alt-Rock
― Motion to adjourn to enjoy a footling (President Keyes), Thursday, 19 January 2023 16:01 (one year ago) link
Odelay as Bubblegum, from the original post, resonates
― a (waterface), Thursday, 19 January 2023 16:06 (one year ago) link
like if Odelay were somehow dumber and less trip hoppy
I had owned their previous album and thought they really leaned into Beck-like sampling and songwriting on this one, but this is fair. I think critics definitely picked up on this album trying to find the next Odelay though.
― Chris L, Thursday, 19 January 2023 16:15 (one year ago) link
I think critics definitely picked up on this album trying to find the next Odelay though.
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Thursday, 19 January 2023 16:18 (one year ago) link
Feel like the Beta Band were the most blatant post-Beck Brit band, but also stirred in enough to make it their own.
― Position Position, Thursday, 19 January 2023 16:18 (one year ago) link
Dan the Automator worked on that Cornershop album though, so it does seem weird to me give Beck the credit, rather than sample-heavy hip hop in general (or "Prince Paul/Paul's Boutique influence" as President Keyes said)
― rob, Thursday, 19 January 2023 16:21 (one year ago) link
xp I avoided mentioning my beloved Beta Band because no proper hits but them, the All Seeing I, Position Normal, Space and even Gomez all fit the post-Beck thing in different ways.
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Thursday, 19 January 2023 16:23 (one year ago) link
I'm loosely speaking 'recombinant pop' rather than specifically pointing to Beck as a direct inspiration obv
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Thursday, 19 January 2023 16:24 (one year ago) link
― Position Position, Thursday, January 19, 2023 10:18 AM (five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
there's a strain of UK rock music that i have to confess that i don't fully understand how it fit in culturally/musically, but specifically one band is Ozric Tentancles, kind of this post punk post hippie post dance music jam band thing? again this is more of a vibe i get but did that figure into the Beta Band?
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 19 January 2023 16:26 (one year ago) link
Ozric Tentacles are quite an anomaly but IMO make a bit more sense when you factor in these things I would say
1) the rise of crusty - never cool but a subcultural point of entry that had grown genuinely huge in the 90s and received lots of media coverage for a time, particularly as a live draw (and this was in the aftermath of the fraggle/student/T-shirt band thing so I suspect there would have been strong crossover or deviation). It's mad just how big the Levellers were.
2) sister-band Eat Static riding on post-Orb ambient fervor. If Orby dance music was prog then Ozric/Eat Static sealaed the connection.
3) both of the above trajectories leading to e.g. Dreadzone being reasonably big and having a huge Peel following and world-y Transglobal underground stuff.
Maybe?
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Thursday, 19 January 2023 16:35 (one year ago) link
as for "something that was in the air," I submit the Jon Spencer Blues Explosion remix CD from 1995 with "six remixes by UNKLE, Mike D, Beck, Moby, Dub Narcotic Sound System, GZA and Killah Priest."
― Motion to adjourn to enjoy a footling (President Keyes), Thursday, 19 January 2023 16:38 (one year ago) link
I’d suggest that a lot of this probably trickled down from dummy and Maxinquaye a bit too, those were two huge albums. Also Odelay to me sort of seemed like the Dust Bros were using the same bag of tricks they used on Paul’s Boutique half a dozen years prior, it didn’t necessarily advance their technique much as much as it found a more willing audience and maybe for the era a more marketable messenger (beasties definitely were on the commercial outs in ‘89, hence the check your head comeback.)
― omar little, Thursday, 19 January 2023 16:38 (one year ago) link
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn)
you can give him credit for “bringing it to the masses” or whatever, sure. though you could say the same for whatever strain of cinema produced pulp fiction, and also he’s not the only artist at the time to go platinum doing that shtick (beastie boys, dee lite maybe, idk who else because i don’t watch the charts)
i would not give beck much credit for inventing or advancing this style, is all i’m saying
― the late great, Thursday, 19 January 2023 16:40 (one year ago) link
'if Odelay sucked...' How Blues Dealt With Beck In The '90s
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Come_On_In_(album%29
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Thursday, 19 January 2023 16:44 (one year ago) link
crtl-f "sublime" not found
― ꙮ (map), Thursday, 19 January 2023 16:59 (one year ago) link
Nowell died before Odelay was even released...or are you saying Sublime was a big influence on other bands?
― rob, Thursday, 19 January 2023 17:03 (one year ago) link
There's plenty lot of contemporaenous mid-90s alt-bands using hip hop aesthetics in this thread, but I have to ask....did Odelay actually end up having "an immediate influence on mid/late '90s Alt-Rock"?
― intheblanks, Thursday, 19 January 2023 17:07 (one year ago) link
Obviously I can think of a handful of knock-off one-hit wonders (BranVan, Citizen King, Len etc.), but I don't know how much further it goes than that. Struggling to think of much that with the aesthetic signifiers of the orignal post.
― intheblanks, Thursday, 19 January 2023 17:09 (one year ago) link
― the late great
I understood you. "Beck did better commercially than the other bands and probably acted as gateway for a lot of kids to these other acts" is all I meant. I don't give Bowie credit for inventing or advancing R&B in 1975 either.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 19 January 2023 17:13 (one year ago) link
re sublime i was way upthread where someone was talking about smash mouth and "why can't we be friends"
― ꙮ (map), Thursday, 19 January 2023 17:16 (one year ago) link
― intheblanks, Thursday, January 19, 2023 11:07 AM (nine minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
Faith No More fits in here esp with the skatepunk bongwater Vans California diaspora
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 19 January 2023 17:18 (one year ago) link
also RHCP
― Motion to adjourn to enjoy a footling (President Keyes), Thursday, 19 January 2023 17:25 (one year ago) link
i like "rode the wave" and Beck may have buoyed the popularity of the style as much as he extended it.
xps
― The field divisions are fastened with felicitations. (Deflatormouse), Thursday, 19 January 2023 17:27 (one year ago) link
― Motion to adjourn to enjoy a footling (President Keyes), Thursday, January 19, 2023 11:25 AM (three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
definitely, RHCP is getting towards that U2 zone where they were so ubiquitous for so long they got way overrated but now we may have overcorrected and their early influence might be underrated
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 19 January 2023 17:30 (one year ago) link
Yeah, Odelay links back to the skatepunk stuff. The Beasties had more of a harcore element for sure and a more aggressive musical style but Odelay still has teeth. The irony, the detachment- there's a toughness about it that's totally missing in the Beta Band or whoever
― The field divisions are fastened with felicitations. (Deflatormouse), Thursday, 19 January 2023 17:36 (one year ago) link
odelay and beck in general = unmistakably l.a. beastie boys - unmistakably new york.
― ꙮ (map), Thursday, 19 January 2023 17:38 (one year ago) link
Beasties had been living in LA since paul's boutique though and did Check Your Head and G-Son studios their rehearsal space/skate ramp place in LA
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 19 January 2023 17:42 (one year ago) link
How so? I always detected some LA-ness about the Beastie Boys xp
― The field divisions are fastened with felicitations. (Deflatormouse), Thursday, 19 January 2023 17:42 (one year ago) link
Apart from 'why is Curly yelling at me'
― The field divisions are fastened with felicitations. (Deflatormouse), Thursday, 19 January 2023 17:43 (one year ago) link
I associate the B-movie wah wah funk stuff on CYH and Ill Communication as LA-ish (not that I've ever been, mind).
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Thursday, 19 January 2023 17:43 (one year ago) link
Fastball’s “The Way” was the first thing that came to mind.
― Western® with Bacon Flavor, Thursday, 19 January 2023 17:44 (one year ago) link
Yeah, that's a good connection. The quasi-John Barry guitar line feels like it's treading on the same ground as the smash mouth tracks mentioned earlier
― intheblanks, Thursday, 19 January 2023 17:47 (one year ago) link
Paul’s boutique also was recorded in Los Angeles even tho for me it’s the ultimate New York City album. Check your head always felt kind of NYC as well, for whatever reason.
― omar little, Thursday, 19 January 2023 17:48 (one year ago) link
Smashmouth do seem very Californian to me but the Beasties put out a comp of instrumentals with the same title and artwork as this, I think pre-Odelay
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJQPP6AEnnw
― The field divisions are fastened with felicitations. (Deflatormouse), Thursday, 19 January 2023 17:48 (one year ago) link
ok fair enough i just mean like.. you hear the beasties and their voices are new york ones. you hear beck and he sounds like a rich l.a. boy. guys i don't really know what i'm talking about at all, just enjoying hate-remembering beck.
― ꙮ (map), Thursday, 19 January 2023 17:49 (one year ago) link
Imani Coppola "Legend of a Cowgirl" feels like it was an attempt to recreate "New Pollution"
― intheblanks, Thursday, 19 January 2023 17:49 (one year ago) link
No mention of the (oft shitty) Fun Lovin' Criminals but don't they fit somewhere as well? Not Beck-ish but in that alt-rock/hip hop/cult sampling/pop culture-referencing tent.
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Thursday, 19 January 2023 17:49 (one year ago) link
you hear the beasties and their voices are new york ones.
yeah def
you hear beck and he sounds like a rich l.a. boy.
i wouldn't know
― The field divisions are fastened with felicitations. (Deflatormouse), Thursday, 19 January 2023 17:51 (one year ago) link
Add Chuck Prophet to this?
And did we mention
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wb6Nl_BB6sU
― everybody was tofu fighting (Ye Mad Puffin), Thursday, 19 January 2023 17:52 (one year ago) link
there was definitely post-beck french stuff that i liked that had a lot of that in it. or even Fantasma speaking of matador. that kinda thing.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 1 November 2023 19:37 (four months ago) link
so much turn of the century bossa electronica exotica stuff forgotten to the sands of time. i come across them all the time.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 1 November 2023 19:39 (four months ago) link
I quoted upthread Eric Harvey's description of late 1990s "recombinant pop."
― jaymc, Wednesday, 1 November 2023 19:40 (four months ago) link
it’s part of the whole sickly 70s vibe soup, big lapels, leisure suits,
― brimstead, Wednesday, 1 November 2023 22:26 (four months ago) link
(Of odelay)
but maybe im missing the cocktail lounge thing in odelay? it didn't register to me that way at the time― xheugy eddy (D-40), Wednesday, 1 November 2023 18:30 (five hours ago) linkIntro to "The new pollution"?― /asarco (AcnalbasacNoom), Wednesday, 1 November 2023 18:36 (five hours ago) link
― xheugy eddy (D-40), Wednesday, 1 November 2023 18:30 (five hours ago) link
Intro to "The new pollution"?
― /asarco (AcnalbasacNoom), Wednesday, 1 November 2023 18:36 (five hours ago) link
"Deadweight" also came out during the tail end of the album cycle. Felt like every 60 minutes MTV was spinning that "The New Pollution" or "Where It's At" in '97. Weird that I have no memory of the "Jack Ass" music video.
― Western® with Bacon Flavor, Wednesday, 1 November 2023 23:48 (four months ago) link
a big shame on us all for forgetting Everything's "Hooch"
― Western® with Bacon Flavor, Wednesday, 1 November 2023 23:56 (four months ago) link
XP "Jack-Ass" is the black & white one about miners with the cameo by Willie Nelson
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8SKL4fniRM
― an icon of a worried-looking, long-haired, bespectacled man (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 2 November 2023 00:07 (four months ago) link
...which led to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW4ymIkBUuE
― an icon of a worried-looking, long-haired, bespectacled man (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 2 November 2023 00:11 (four months ago) link
"it’s part of the whole sickly 70s vibe soup, big lapels, leisure suits,"
heeey ladiesssss!! still the best dust brothers video outside of wild thing maybe.
maybe it all comes from that one video.
― scott seward, Thursday, 2 November 2023 02:06 (four months ago) link
Beastie Boys were way ahead of their time with that stuff, people seemed to find it nearly incomprehensible.
I've mentioned this elsewhere but for me, growing up in the 80s, it was like the entire 70s had been actively memory holed by most people, like anything vaguely reminiscent of the 70s was bad and should be avoided. Paul's Boutique was probably the first time I heard current musicians really embrace a whole lot of 70s music and culture.
― Muad'Doob (Moodles), Thursday, 2 November 2023 02:25 (four months ago) link
And of course the Dust Brothers were a b8g part of that move.
― Muad'Doob (Moodles), Thursday, 2 November 2023 02:26 (four months ago) link
re: "Hooch," I would have sworn it came up here, but I was actually thinking of last summer's revive of 50 Memorable Songs Of The Late 1990s That Apparently Only You Remember, Even Though They Were Totally On The Radio And Stuff which covers the chill acoustic-strumming-over-sampled-beats-with-vinyl-crackle side of things. good MarkoP playlist on that also.
― not the one who's tryin' to dub your anime (Doctor Casino), Thursday, 2 November 2023 03:00 (four months ago) link
"I've mentioned this elsewhere but for me, growing up in the 80s, it was like the entire 70s had been actively memory holed by most people"
people wanted to feel "modern" in the 80s. even though most people still drove 70s cars and lived in houses from the 50s and 80s dance music was mostly based on 70s disco and synth music had been a pop thing since the 60s and rockers mostly still looked like it was 1972 and the freshest new sound of the 80s was literally made out of music from the 70s.
but yeah if paul's boutique had come out in 1996 it would have been number one in the land.
― scott seward, Thursday, 2 November 2023 11:29 (four months ago) link
The Odelay singles >>>>>>>>>>> the rest
― Mr. Snrub, Thursday, 2 November 2023 16:10 (four months ago) link
“Minus” is a gem, IMO
― Girl (1956) (morrisp), Thursday, 2 November 2023 16:47 (four months ago) link
still the best dust brothers video outside of wild thing maybe.
a Matt Dike and Michael Ross The Genie joint fwiw - the Dust Bros only did three LP tracks
(they also only did the Know How single for Young MC, with Dike and Ross stepping back in after that)
― vashti funyuns (sic), Thursday, 2 November 2023 20:56 (four months ago) link