("only" is doing some heavy lifting there, I should clarify "by post/letter")
― Mark G, Wednesday, 11 January 2023 14:37 (one year ago) link
there's a place is like not a second time; exquisite, sad little minor key songs tucked away at the ends of these albums, underappreciated.
― I? not I! He! He! HIM! (akm), Wednesday, 11 January 2023 15:54 (one year ago) link
That horrible middle-register piano solo in "Not A Second Time" sounds like the Muzak version of the song. It may be my least favorite moment in the entire Beatles oeuvre, mainly because it happens in an otherwise great song.
I always loved "There's A Place," though.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 11 January 2023 16:09 (one year ago) link
Harsh words?
yeah. i'm getting all this from this quora.com post:
Rundgren, Melody Maker, sometime in 1974:
"John Lennon ain't no revolutionary. He's a fucking idiot, man. Shouting about revolution and acting like an ass. It just makes people feel uncomfortable.""All he really wants to do is get attention for himself, and if revolution gets him that attention, he'll get attention through revolution. Hitting a waitress in the Troubador. What kind of revolution is that?""He's an important figure, sure. But so was Richard Nixon. Nixon was just like another generation's John Lennon. Someone who represented all sorts of ideals, but was out for himself underneath it all.""Like the Beatles had no style other than being the Beatles. So the Nazz used to do, like heavy rock, and also these light, pretty ballads with complex ballads."
"All he really wants to do is get attention for himself, and if revolution gets him that attention, he'll get attention through revolution. Hitting a waitress in the Troubador. What kind of revolution is that?"
"He's an important figure, sure. But so was Richard Nixon. Nixon was just like another generation's John Lennon. Someone who represented all sorts of ideals, but was out for himself underneath it all."
"Like the Beatles had no style other than being the Beatles. So the Nazz used to do, like heavy rock, and also these light, pretty ballads with complex ballads."
and then lennon's response:
AN OPENED LETTUCE TO SODD RUNTLESTUNTLE. (from dr. winston o'boogie)Couldn't resist adding a few "islands of truth" of my own, in answer to Turd Runtgreen's howl of hate (pain.)Dear Todd,I like you, and some of your work, including "I Saw The Light", which is not unlike "There's A Place" (Beatles), melody wise.1) I have never claimed to be a revolutionary. But I am allowed to sing about anything I want! Right?2) I never hit a waitress in the Troubador, I did act like an ass, I was too drunk. So shoot me!3) I guess we're all looking for attention Rodd, do you really think I don't know how to get it, without "revolution?" I could dye my hair green and pink for a start!4) I don't represent anyone but my SELF. It sounds like I represented something to you, or you wouldn't be so violent towards me. (Your dad perhaps?)5) Yes Dodd, violence comes in mysterious ways its wonders to perform, including verbal. But you'd know that kind of mind game, wouldn't you? Of course you would.6) So the Nazz used to do "like heavy rock" then SUDDENLY a "light pretty ballad". How original!7) Which gets me to the Beatles, "who had no other style than being the Beatles"!! That covers a lot of style man, including your own, TO DATE.....Yes Godd, the one thing those Beatles did was to affect PEOPLES' MINDS. Maybe you need another fix?Somebody played me your rock and roll pussy song, but I never noticed anything. I think that the real reason you're mad at me is cause I didn't know who you were at the Rainbow (L.A.) Remember that time you came in with Wolfman Jack? When I found out later, I was cursing cause I wanted to tell you how good you were. (I'd heard you on the radio.)Anyway, However much you hurt me darling; I'll always love you,J. L.
Couldn't resist adding a few "islands of truth" of my own, in answer to Turd Runtgreen's howl of hate (pain.)
Dear Todd,
I like you, and some of your work, including "I Saw The Light", which is not unlike "There's A Place" (Beatles), melody wise.
1) I have never claimed to be a revolutionary. But I am allowed to sing about anything I want! Right?
2) I never hit a waitress in the Troubador, I did act like an ass, I was too drunk. So shoot me!
3) I guess we're all looking for attention Rodd, do you really think I don't know how to get it, without "revolution?" I could dye my hair green and pink for a start!
4) I don't represent anyone but my SELF. It sounds like I represented something to you, or you wouldn't be so violent towards me. (Your dad perhaps?)
5) Yes Dodd, violence comes in mysterious ways its wonders to perform, including verbal. But you'd know that kind of mind game, wouldn't you? Of course you would.
6) So the Nazz used to do "like heavy rock" then SUDDENLY a "light pretty ballad". How original!
7) Which gets me to the Beatles, "who had no other style than being the Beatles"!! That covers a lot of style man, including your own, TO DATE.....
Yes Godd, the one thing those Beatles did was to affect PEOPLES' MINDS. Maybe you need another fix?
Somebody played me your rock and roll pussy song, but I never noticed anything. I think that the real reason you're mad at me is cause I didn't know who you were at the Rainbow (L.A.) Remember that time you came in with Wolfman Jack? When I found out later, I was cursing cause I wanted to tell you how good you were. (I'd heard you on the radio.)
Anyway, However much you hurt me darling; I'll always love you,
J. L.
― Karl Malone, Wednesday, 11 January 2023 16:25 (one year ago) link
So shoot me!
Oof.
― an icon of a worried-looking, long-haired, bespectacled man (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 11 January 2023 16:33 (one year ago) link
Oh, that's our John!
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 11 January 2023 16:35 (one year ago) link
it's something else. "AN OPENED LETTUCE TO SODD RUNTLESTUNTLE. (from dr. winston o'boogie)" is an extremely disarming way to start a letter
― Karl Malone, Wednesday, 11 January 2023 16:37 (one year ago) link
However much you hurt me darling; I'll always love you,
― maf you one two (maffew12), Wednesday, 11 January 2023 16:37 (one year ago) link
standard way to start a salad
― Evan, Wednesday, 11 January 2023 16:38 (one year ago) link
“I Saw The Light” always reminded me of “You Won’t See Me” (“It was late last night” / “When I call you up”)― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 11 January 2023 11:38 (four hours ago) link
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 11 January 2023 11:38 (four hours ago) link
Same here -- this seems to me like such an obvious similarity to call out that that bit of Lennon's letter read kind of like "I like you, and some of your work, including 'Ice Ice Baby', which is not unlike 'We Will Rock You' (Queen)"
― Vaguely Threatening CAPTCHAs, Wednesday, 11 January 2023 16:43 (one year ago) link
some context to this, in 1976 Todd's Faithful album contained renditions of "Rain" and "Strawberry Fields" which are so note perfect that you could easily mistake them for the originals. so Todd clearly got what made the Beatles tick better than most people did and I guess he may have considered there to be a rivalry there. he made a whole album with Utopia mocking them a few years after that. but deep down you know he loved them.
― frogbs, Wednesday, 11 January 2023 16:46 (one year ago) link
this was also happening in late 1974, which i believe was near the end of the Lost Weekend period, which might explain a lot
― Karl Malone, Wednesday, 11 January 2023 16:48 (one year ago) link
I love There's A Place. The lyric stands apart from the Lennon/McCartney songbook of the time: too "There's a place where I can go … and it's my mind". I don't want to overstate things and say it's one step from Tomorrow Never Knows or something, but that inward focus has always stuck out for me.
― Alba, Wednesday, 11 January 2023 16:56 (one year ago) link
DId he happen to say anything about Harry Nilsson?
― Farewell to Evening in Paradise (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 11 January 2023 16:58 (one year ago) link
A few months later, Brian Wilson would record In My Room, a sort of cousin. X-post
― Alba, Wednesday, 11 January 2023 16:59 (one year ago) link
There's a place where I can go … and it's my mind".
Yep. A lyric replete with casual wisdom.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 11 January 2023 17:01 (one year ago) link
― Farewell to Evening in Paradise (James Redd and the Blecchs),
"Pass me another brandy sour, Harry."
Yeah, "There's a Place" is similar in content to "In My Room," I guess. I like the singing on it, kind of harsh-sounding harmonies, the kind John Cale was hearing after he did his daily drone and sat down to listen to Tony Conrad's Everly Brothers records.(xpost!)
― Farewell to Evening in Paradise (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 11 January 2023 17:02 (one year ago) link
There's a scene in Bob Balaban's 1989 Parents in which a smiling and completely scary-looking Randy Quaid tells his young sleepless child that the only dark place he should be scared of is his mind, which is what this discussion just made me think of.
― Farewell to Evening in Paradise (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 11 January 2023 17:05 (one year ago) link
A few months later, Brian Wilson would record In My Room, a sort of cousin.
X-post
― Alba
ha, i read your first post, calling out the lyric, and thought the same thing! did some quick wikipedia confirming about the timing of the recording sessions and was very excited to come back and here and say exactly what you said :)
however, one additional thing i did learn on wikipedia is that "there's a place" was the first song recorded for the session (the fucking LEGENDARY session in my book), at 10am, while lennon was recovering from a cold with throat lozenges
― Karl Malone, Wednesday, 11 January 2023 17:07 (one year ago) link
it strikes me as the most modern sounding track on the album. it might be that harmonica serving as the denouement for each section, it's just perfect.
― Karl Malone, Wednesday, 11 January 2023 17:09 (one year ago) link
Lennon, Schmennon
― everybody was tofu fighting (Ye Mad Puffin), Wednesday, 11 January 2023 17:11 (one year ago) link
while lennon was recovering from a cold with throat lozenges
― assert (matttkkkk), Wednesday, 11 January 2023 17:37 (one year ago) link
a smiling and completely scary-looking Randy Quaid tells his young sleepless child that the only dark place he should be scared of is his mind
something Randy Quaid has since terrifyingly demonstrated with the rest of his life
― I? not I! He! He! HIM! (akm), Wednesday, 11 January 2023 17:56 (one year ago) link
there are quite a few run throughs of 'there's a place' floating around, probably easiest to find on that bootleg-beating copyright dump release from several years ago
― I? not I! He! He! HIM! (akm), Wednesday, 11 January 2023 17:57 (one year ago) link
Ha, akm, I was trying to thing of how to say that but gave up so thanks for nailing it.
― Farewell to Evening in Paradise (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 11 January 2023 18:47 (one year ago) link
Yeah, had a few of them on those "Ultra Rare Tracks" CDs from back in the corblimey days
― Mark G, Wednesday, 11 January 2023 22:19 (one year ago) link
― Alba, Wednesday, January 11, 2023 11:59 AM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink
But "There's A Place" wasn't released in the US until July 22, 1963, on Introducing The Beatles. "In My Room" was recorded on July 16. It's technically possible that Wilson could have heard an import copy of Please Please Me, but 1) import records were pretty hard to obtain in the US in the early '60s, and b) how would Wilson have heard of them in the spring or summer of 1963? (the latter not meant rhetorically -- did he know people who'd hipped him to the Beatles? It likely wouldn't have been anyone at Capitol, since the guy in charge, Dave Dexter, hated the Beatles.)
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 12 January 2023 15:43 (one year ago) link
Oh yeah I didn't mean to say it was influenced by it.
― Alba, Thursday, 12 January 2023 17:59 (one year ago) link
yeah, i probably was the one who seemed to suggest that, because i was talking about the timing of the recording dates. at the time i was thinking more of "who did it first?", "it" being including a melancholy kind of introspective statement in a pop song. when you read beach boys biogs there's always a section about "in my room" and how groundbreaking it was for that reason. but i'm sure a million other artists did that before both the beatles and the beach boys. i'm not a sinatra-head but i imagine he sang about something similar many times
― Karl Malone, Thursday, 12 January 2023 18:03 (one year ago) link
but the beach boys were the first to do it while then whip-snapping back to an earnest singalong about how amazing surfing is
― Karl Malone, Thursday, 12 January 2023 18:04 (one year ago) link
The Prof Stoned guy that someone linked to upthread has now got to Help! and Rubber Soul on his remixing project. I'm on a bit of a Beatles break at the moment so haven't listened to them much, but if you can't wait for Giles Martin to give us a stereo Michelle that isn't hard panned, here you go:
http://www.profstoned.com/search/label/The%20Beatles
― Alba, Wednesday, 1 February 2023 13:32 (one year ago) link
Paul McCartney says artificial intelligence has enabled a 'final' Beatles song Ah, why not.
― Alba, Tuesday, 13 June 2023 07:59 (ten months ago) link
Slightly stretching it to call this sort of digital clean-up work "AI" but imo there is absolutely no way that we don't get future 'Beatles' songs with deep-faked voices, possibly themselves written by AI. It might not happen in the next 5 or even 10 years but it will happen. I reckon most of the huge, bankable stars of the 20th century will get this treatment. Their grandchildren and great-great grandchildren won't be able to resist. New Elvis songs. New Abba songs. etc
― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 13 June 2023 09:35 (ten months ago) link
Not just bands that existed, but bands that didn't. If we'll have new "Beatles" songs, there's no reason not to have implausible supergroups with, like, Janis Joplin on vocals and Scott Joplin on piano, feat. Tupac.
In the future portrayed in Margaret Atwood's Oryx and Crake, one could generate deepfake p0rn with, say, Abraham Lincoln and Mae West... that book was published 20 years ago.
― pomplamoose and circumstance (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 13 June 2023 10:18 (ten months ago) link
Slightly stretching it to call this sort of digital clean-up work "AI" but imo there is absolutely no way that we don't get future 'Beatles' songs with deep-faked voice
yeah that is going to suck, most likely; but AI-aided restoration and cleanup is a very good application of this technology (likewise for video cleanup/upscaling). I was fairly confident this song would wind up seeing the light of day at some point.
― I? not I! He! He! HIM! (akm), Tuesday, 13 June 2023 13:51 (ten months ago) link
Love it when JPM is all, "I wanted to do it, but George wouldn't let me."
― pplains, Tuesday, 13 June 2023 14:08 (ten months ago) link
that stuff is pretty legit - someone used it to clean up a Genesis concert circa 1973 or so and it looked and sounded amazing.
as far as AI creating "new" Beatles songs or whatever I think it's pretty inevitable, in fact what I'm pretty sure will happen is someone will generate 500 of them and a couple will actually be pretty good and then a band like Pomplamoose will "cover" the AI-generated song in a way that's lavish and expensive and it will maybe even become a hit the same way those Paul Oakenfold remixed Elvis songs were, there will be a lot of handwringing about royalties and the future of music but ultimately I don't see it becoming a regular mainstream thing.
― frogbs, Tuesday, 13 June 2023 14:14 (ten months ago) link
I wonder if by the time we get to the point of everyone on the planet with internet access being able to make any kind of insane art/music/photography/film/animation by typing 'make this thing...' into a laptop, we'll be past the point that anyone will be looking/listening/caring and the 60th Anniversary Vinyl and 8 Track cartridge of The White Album will be about ready to roll out.
― MaresNest, Tuesday, 13 June 2023 14:17 (ten months ago) link
― pplains, Tuesday, June 13, 2023 10:08 AM (fourteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
That was the thing, if any one member of the Beatles didn't want to do something, then they didn't do it. The first time they went ahead despite a 3-1 vote was when they voted in favor of hiring Allen Klein instead of Lee Eastman to sort out their management.
When they initially tried recording "Now and Then," George was the one who cut the session short, and he hadn't been too keen on the other "new" songs as it was. Now that he's no longer around to have a say, it's kind of a dick move by Paul to "finish" it anyway.
(And if Paul's gonna release stuff George had vetoed, maybe he should finally release "Carnival of Light.")
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 13 June 2023 14:28 (ten months ago) link
The first time they went ahead despite a 3-1 vote was when they voted in favor of hiring Allen Klein instead of Lee Eastman to sort out their management.
― Alba, Tuesday, 13 June 2023 14:58 (ten months ago) link
now and then is a love song to paul so fuck what the dead old man thought about it exit thread
― your original display name is still visible (Left), Tuesday, 13 June 2023 15:16 (ten months ago) link
then a band like Pomplamoose will "cover" the AI-generated song in a way that's lavish and expensive
Get my favorite band's name out of your mouth, frogbs
― pomplamoose and circumstance (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 13 June 2023 15:18 (ten months ago) link
paul's lyrics already sound like they were written by AI, TS: "wonderful christmastime" vs. "The best Christmas present in the world is a blessing"
― Kate (rushomancy), Tuesday, 13 June 2023 15:42 (ten months ago) link
Wasn't George kind of strong-armed into going on tour with Jimmie Nicol instead of cancelling it?
― Alba, Tuesday, June 13, 2023 10:58 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink
None of the Beatles wanted to tour without Ringo, but yes, especially George ("If Ringo's not going, then neither am I. You can find two replacements.") It wasn't that George was outvoted by the others (and I assume Ringo's vote would have been "no"), but that Epstein and George Martin (who chose Nicol, having worked with him) pressured them to do it -- it would only be a few shows (a total of eight out of 30 performances), and they couldn't postpone the tour on one day's notice, Ringo having been hospitalized the day before the first show.
(Fun fact: Nicol's last show with them was 59 years ago today.)
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 13 June 2023 16:56 (ten months ago) link
That anecdote about having John, Paul, and George take turns sharing a room with Ringo for the sake of sealing their friendship always touched me.
― the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 13 June 2023 16:57 (ten months ago) link
Just a bad idea all around, especially given the negative reception for the previous two "new" recordings. The "Now and Then" demo is even drearier than "Free As A Bird."
― birdistheword, Tuesday, 13 June 2023 18:37 (ten months ago) link
yeah but they will likely clean up both of those other tracks with a remix. I'm fine with this; people have been begging for this track for years. And if they can use some tech to better clean up Lennon's vocals on the other songs, fine.
― I? not I! He! He! HIM! (akm), Tuesday, 13 June 2023 18:42 (ten months ago) link
But can AI de-gate the Jeff Lynne snare?
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 13 June 2023 18:55 (ten months ago) link
Yeah that one blew my mind when I saw it. I think restoration and "cleaning" up old footage that might otherwise be lost to time is one good use case, but not sure it alone counterbalances all the horrifying shit coming our way in the next decade.
― Maxmillion D. Boosted (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 13 June 2023 19:16 (ten months ago) link