true or false baseball challop: not a single one of the modern day closers belongs in the Hall of Fame

James got a question today about how qualified he thinks Wagner and Rodriguez are for the HOF:

Billy Wagner had a great career, and I'd consider that. But we're electing WAY too many relievers to the Hall of Fame, for this reason. The way that the process works (and has always worked) is that if a player meets or exceeds the standards of others at the position who have been selected, then that player is essentially considered eligible. But that process went awry in regard to relievers because the standards were evolving very rapidly, so that 10 years after Rollie Fingers was selected...and I still don't think that Fingers was deserving of Hall of Fame recognition...but ten years after he was selected, there were a large number of relievers who had run past some or many of the standards that he had established. In essence, the process of evaluation by standards does not work in a place where the standards are changing rapidly.

could do the same someday with openers, mop-up relievers, third base coaches, etc, all of these people provide value to the team, though imo like closers have assumed their role because the people who run the teams have decided they aren’t capable of more

isn't it more because their throwing style only allows them to throw 20-25 pitches before their efficiency goes down and their risk of injury goes up? the guys who can't hack it as starters usually become middle relievers, not closers

stamima is one thing. but a lot of guys in relief are there because they didn't have enough pitches in their repertoire. one or two kinds of pitches is enough for a closer or middle relief, but it usually doesn't cut it as a starting pitcher because big league hitters are able to adapt and are ready for it by the second time through the batting order

there are only 5 relievers in the top 50 in salary among all pitchers. teams know what value they bring and by and large pay accordingly

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/rankings/salary/pitching/

Some of the deals given relievers in years past had paid them like they were game changers rather than merely guys whose job it was to preserve a lead of three runs or less and really not to fuck it up for everyone else. Mowing down 3 or 4 batters every 3 games is not a 100 million contract job.

God, some of the names in the first third of that list: Strasburg, Sale, Bumgarner, Ryu. I totally get why two or three of them landed huge contracts at the time, but pitchers sure are risky. (I.e., the two #1s?)

i mean...Stroman. i guess i knew the Cubs gave him that much but when you see him listed there it reminds me of the time the Cubs turned their backs on Greg Maddux and chose Jose Guzman.

pitchers will break your heart. alex reyes broke my heart. </3

did we ever have a thread called Stroman or Astroman?

I watched that walk-off by the Mariners last night (they looked like they were going to do a Jays thing, not score after loading the bases with none out). God, Aroldis Chapman looked terrible. He didn't give up the walk-off, but he's the one who loaded the bases before getting pulled. Along with all other considerable baggage he carries, I wonder how long teams will keep bringing him aboard.

Couldn’t be happier for his failure ❤️

You know who’s been an elite reliever this year? Chris Martin! Mostly a setup/8th guy but has closed when Kenley was on the IL.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/martich02.shtml

Kenley hasn’t been lights out or anything - but still decent enough that he could get his 30th save before seasons end. All time, he’s two saves away from Wagner, 4 from Franco and 17 from K-rod.

Kenley isn’t going to play again this season

I thought he was off the dl

If i was a rostered pitcher w an established baseline i wouldnt want to pitch once i was eliminated from PO contention

Cora said he didn’t use Kenley because he hasn’t pitched in 17 days and didn’t want to risk his health

— Rob Bradford (@bradfo) September 30, 2023

Huh

Yeah he had covid and took a while to come back. He pitches terribly on long rest (at least this season?)

God, Aroldis Chapman looked terrible. He didn't give up the walk-off, but he's the one who loaded the bases before getting pulled. Along with all other considerable baggage he carries, I wonder how long teams will keep bringing him aboard.

I’ve said it before but for me as a Cubs fan I don’t remember aroldis chapman’s dominant half season w chicago but the times he needed to be bailed out in the postseason (including game 7 of the WS.)

― omar little, Sunday, January 8, 2023 9:47 AM (eight months ago) bookmarkflaglink

Jansen had COVID and has a history of heart problems, I wouldn't be in any rush to bring him back either.