I took a class in grad school on the archetype of "captivity narratives" and of course The Searchers was a major text...it's a very rich, if uncomfortable, film in that way.
― ryan, Monday, 9 January 2023 16:46 (one year ago) link
I got into movies seriously in the mid to late 90s so the 1992 list was my introduction to the canon (once I realized the AFI list was limited, to say the least...)
1. Citizen Kane (Welles) 2. La Regle du Jeu (Renoir) 3. Tokyo Story (Ozu) 4. Vertigo (Hitchcock) 5. The Searchers (Ford) 6. L’Atalante (Vigo) 6. The Passion of Joan of Arc (Dreyer) 6. Pather Panchali (Ray) 6. Battleship Potemkin (Eisenstein) 10. 2001: A Space Odyssey (Kubrick)
― ryan, Monday, 9 January 2023 16:53 (one year ago) link
I like the 1982 list...
Citizen Kane The Rules of the Game Seven Samurai Singin' in the Rain 8½ Battleship Potemkin L'Avventura The Magnificent Ambersons Vertigo The General The Searchers
― ryan, Monday, 9 January 2023 16:59 (one year ago) link
First one I ever came across was the '72 list (in The Book of Lists) while in high school:
1. Citizen Kane (Welles)2. La Règle du jeu (Renoir)3. Battleship Potemkin (Eisenstein)4. 8½ (Fellini)5. L’avventura (Antonioni)5. Persona (Bergman)7. The Passion of Joan of Arc (Dreyer)8. The General (Keaton)8. The Magnificent Ambersons (Welles)10. Ugetsu Monogatari (Mizoguchi)10. Wild Strawberries (Bergman)
― clemenza, Monday, 9 January 2023 17:47 (one year ago) link
Just 17 voters, I think.
Oh I'm moved by Fredo. "I can handle things! I'm smart! Not like everybody says!" is a big part of my vocabulary.
"It's the way Pop wanted it."
"It's not the way I wanted it!"
― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Monday, 9 January 2023 17:49 (one year ago) link
Oddly, I thought Sonny was the most empathetic character in the first GF. Probably has to do with the heat Caan brought to the role. I've always thought he was the standout among a cast of standouts.
― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Monday, 9 January 2023 17:51 (one year ago) link
The last hug between Sonny and Michael is the most emotional moment for me, yeah.
― jmm, Monday, 9 January 2023 17:53 (one year ago) link
Cazale's untimely death was such a massive loss to film acting
― Wyverns and gulls rule my world (Noodle Vague), Monday, 9 January 2023 18:11 (one year ago) link
rewatching it a few years ago it occurred to me that the emotional journey of watching michaels character has become totally reversed, the shock of seeing him transform into a killer ghoul is replaced by the shock of seeing him as a normal friendly guy at the wedding, shopping with Kay, etc, before he's become the "actual" character that i remember & hold in my mind when i think of the film. i also realized i cant remember the first time i saw the godfather, and so cant even remember what my thoughts & feelings might have been watching him go through that transformation for the first time without knowing what was going to happen, which bummed me out a bit
cazale as fredo obv the performance that never loses its potency, impervious to rewatching
― waste of compute (One Eye Open), Monday, 9 January 2023 18:14 (one year ago) link
The final scene in GF2 is a masterful recapitulation.
― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Monday, 9 January 2023 18:22 (one year ago) link
'72: peak Bergmania
― jmm, Monday, 9 January 2023 18:30 (one year ago) link
Fredo's a harder part to play too because he doesn't have any of the menace of the other male Corleones. In the book, they described Fredo as a dream child, a kid who never got in trouble, loved and obeyed his parents. Biggest undoing is his unwavering trust in people, like how he doesn't put it together that Paulie sold his dad out, or how he sides with Moe Greene, not understanding that his family is in actual danger at that point. Or not realizing he was setting his brother up to be killed with Hymen Roth/Johnny Ola.
He's dumb but mostly in the emotionally naive sense, and he doesn't understand that him being passed over is perhaps the greatest thing that could have happened to him, especially after you see what it did to Michael. Cazale captured it perfectly even though he only got a fraction of the screen time
― fentanyl young (Neanderthal), Monday, 9 January 2023 18:33 (one year ago) link
O sorry SPOILERZ
Godfather has been so memed in culture that Michael’s rise is arguably seen as largely a good thing by so many viewers, maybe due to the genuine duplicitousness of his enemies (many of them given even more reprehensible characteristics) when his rise is actually a fall. I don’t think it’s framed as a good thing btw it’s clear it’s meant as a tragedy and these are certainly great films in that respect. It’s hard to view the tragedy as anything other than michael coming into his own, though; kinda like Macbeth or something. He was not really a corrupted good guy as much as there was something in him that was awful and fundamentally evil from the start and it just needed a push in the right context.
― omar little, Monday, 9 January 2023 18:37 (one year ago) link
The first time I saw the Godfather I was overwhelmed by the atmosphere and (to be honest) how old and musty and weird the film seemed to me. And how long! (Gotta say that it took me a while, until my mid-30s, to become really interested in old movies and the ins and outs of Hollywood, and I didn’t watch a ton of films in general until then; I was somewhere in my late 20s when I saw this.) So the feeling of the movie dominates everything in my memory and the finer points would only emerge with subsequent viewings, through reading reviews or listening to podcasts about it, etc.
If I watched a movie like this for the first time today I’d likely clock much more in the way of subtleties.
― The Triumphant Return of Bernard & Stubbs (Raymond Cummings), Monday, 9 January 2023 18:39 (one year ago) link
Omar otm
― fentanyl young (Neanderthal), Monday, 9 January 2023 18:40 (one year ago) link
Michael's refusal to play ball had less to do with "I am above these reprehensible, evil actions" and more "fuck you, I won't do what you tell me", he didn't like anybody, even his own father, mapping his own life out.
plus, no doubt the war probably fucked him up, he was wounded in action and probably saw some fucked up things.
― fentanyl young (Neanderthal), Monday, 9 January 2023 18:49 (one year ago) link
when i watch it now i see him specifically through the lens of a veteran. he's returning to civilian society without fully processing what he learned about himself while at war, shaken not just by his experiences of violence but also by the side of himself those experiences revealed. back in the states at the wedding around all those thugs and triggermen, he's like a recovering alcoholic trying not to look at the bar. the war made him worried about who he might be and he's afraid to go too far and find out for sure.
― waste of compute (One Eye Open), Monday, 9 January 2023 18:58 (one year ago) link
otm
― fentanyl young (Neanderthal), Monday, 9 January 2023 18:59 (one year ago) link
while many mobsters were unhinged and might take down a civvy for disrespecting for them, the majority of the victims of violence by mob's hands were other mobsters, who were also pieces of shit, and even then, the rules of engagement were fairly tight, you couldn't just clip whomever you wanted.
Michael was bestowed the Navy Cross, which means more than likely he killed or aided in the killing of many soldiers, many of them civilians who probably didn't want to be there. yeah, there's rules of engagement there too, but often amounted then to "see a guy wearing a different uniform, and shoot". that shit will fuck you up more than killing someone named Johnny No-Neck who robbed one of your street men.
― fentanyl young (Neanderthal), Monday, 9 January 2023 19:09 (one year ago) link
I saw a 25th anniversary screening of The Godfather when I was 18, and it didn't make much of an impression on me. I found the story hard to follow and didn't care about the characters. Not long after, I saw Part II out of a sense of obligation and mostly felt similar about it. (For context, my favorite filmmakers at the time were probably Woody Allen, Robert Altman, and Mike Leigh.) I'm sure I'd get more out of it if I watched it now, though I haven't gotten around to it.
― jaymc, Monday, 9 January 2023 19:12 (one year ago) link
I definitely didn't follow everything the first time I watched it, mostly because it was my first exposure to mob-related cinema, so I didn't even get the tropes of the genre very well.
I read the book not long after and it made a lot more sense on my next viewing, though Puzo had somewhat of a maddening tendency to overexplain things
― fentanyl young (Neanderthal), Monday, 9 January 2023 19:14 (one year ago) link
that and mentioning how people's sphincters released when they died
― fentanyl young (Neanderthal), Monday, 9 January 2023 19:15 (one year ago) link
I had the odd experience of seeing GF2 before I saw GF.
― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Monday, 9 January 2023 19:36 (one year ago) link
"who the fuck are all these people"
― fentanyl young (Neanderthal), Monday, 9 January 2023 19:38 (one year ago) link
Saw Godfather for the first time as a maybe 14-year-old and it played beautifully. Saw Godfather II as probably a 19- or 20-year-old and it felt like an obligation.
― عباس کیارستمی (Eric H.), Monday, 9 January 2023 19:42 (one year ago) link
when i watch it now i see him specifically through the lens of a veteran. he's returning to civilian society without fully processing what he learned about himself while at war, shaken not just by his experiences of violence but also by the side of himself those experiences revealed.
― Farewell to Evening in Paradise (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 9 January 2023 20:19 (one year ago) link
ewatching it a few years ago it occurred to me that the emotional journey of watching michaels character has become totally reversed, the shock of seeing him transform into a killer ghoul is replaced by the shock of seeing him as a normal friendly guy at the wedding, shopping with Kay, etc, before he's become the "actual" character that i remember & hold in my mind when i think of the film
so OTM. You see the change when he return from Italy months (presumably) after Appolonia's death.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 9 January 2023 20:22 (one year ago) link
XP
https://www.35milimetros.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/TheSearchers_imaginario03.jpg
― an icon of a worried-looking, long-haired, bespectacled man (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 9 January 2023 20:24 (one year ago) link
Both those Godfather/Searchers analogies are perfect--the closing door I had already picked up on, but I'd never thought about the returning-from-war parallel.
― clemenza, Monday, 9 January 2023 20:28 (one year ago) link
the key dividing line between the normie michael and mob michael is obv the restaurant assassination but what turns him truly cold, point of no return, is when apollonia is murdered yeah. difference between the godfather and other films of course is that the family in this film is the femme fatale of sorts, which is luring him away from a decent life and on the path to destruction.
― omar little, Monday, 9 January 2023 20:41 (one year ago) link
The best Michael-before-the-fall moment might be the coda to II, where he announces his enlistment (to the befuddlement of Sonny).
― clemenza, Monday, 9 January 2023 20:42 (one year ago) link
Which is a big part of why I've always said it's better to the see the two original films back-to-back, rather than the chronologically reordered TV version. The extra scenes are nice to have, but you lose those present-past transitions.
― clemenza, Monday, 9 January 2023 20:45 (one year ago) link
Agreed.
― Farewell to Evening in Paradise (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 9 January 2023 20:56 (one year ago) link
When Michael visits Kay at the school, he already looks sunken and hunched.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 9 January 2023 20:59 (one year ago) link
The best part of Michael's arc might just be Brando's expression when he gets out of hospital and they explain to him what Michael's done
― Wyverns and gulls rule my world (Noodle Vague), Monday, 9 January 2023 22:03 (one year ago) link
I can visualize that perfectly: Tom tells him (hesistantly) "It was Michael who shot Sollozzo," then Brando weakly waves him away.
― clemenza, Monday, 9 January 2023 22:07 (one year ago) link
I get that it's beautiful to look at on the big screen (and the soundtrack is the best thing about it for me; I couldn't not see it after looking at the music choices). But I don't see anything very profound in HAL, and what engages your intellect in this?― xyzzzz__, Monday, January 9, 2023
I'm probably not going to express my ideas here very well, but:
besides the overwhelming visual impact of viewing it on a big screen and the soundtrack, what engages me most is its story about leaps in evolution that seem almost impossible, its vision of the past, and its stunning imagination of the future. HAL's dysfunction is focused on a moment in the middle of the film - possibly predicting something we as humans are going to be facing in the not too distant future - but the span of time in the movie is so vast
― Dan S, Tuesday, 10 January 2023 00:11 (one year ago) link
xp Cazale's great in that scene too. Fredo knows that he's dead weight, and that the family's had to make a deal to ensure his protection, and there's that hint of embarrassment as he repeats the line that they're using to save face. "I'm going to learn the casino business." "Yeah..."
― jmm, Tuesday, 10 January 2023 00:23 (one year ago) link
If Fredo has driven to that toll booth instead, and saw the fedoraed men with Tommy guns, he'd have probably waved and said "hey guys!"
― fentanyl young (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 10 January 2023 00:26 (one year ago) link
I love Dan S's posts.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 10 January 2023 00:28 (one year ago) link
Xpost His handling of the gun probably an accurate depiction of what would happen if most inexperienced people tried to quickly pull and shoot
― fentanyl young (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 10 January 2023 00:29 (one year ago) link
his anguished PAP! PAP!!! when Vito's shot is masterful acting.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 10 January 2023 00:31 (one year ago) link
Very visceral
― fentanyl young (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 10 January 2023 00:33 (one year ago) link
Have you all spent the entire day talking about The Godfather?
― عباس کیارستمی (Eric H.), Tuesday, 10 January 2023 02:03 (one year ago) link
A little bit. Mostly I puttered around in the kitchen in honour of my favourite film.
― clemenza, Tuesday, 10 January 2023 02:08 (one year ago) link
You never know, you might have to cook for 20 guys someday
― waste of compute (One Eye Open), Tuesday, 10 January 2023 02:57 (one year ago) link
what engages me most is its story about leaps in evolution that seem almost impossible, its vision of the past, and its stunning imagination of the future. HAL's dysfunction is focused on a moment in the middle of the film - possibly predicting something we as humans are going to be facing in the not too distant future - but the span of time in the movie is so vast
― Dan S, Tuesday, 10 January 2023 bookmarkflaglink
I find the dystopian aspect of it pretty poor and really divorced from politics into something really nihilistic and teenage. Technology -- whether it's a book or a computer -- has always been with us and it's always breaking and sorta dysfunctional when it's mass produced. It's a lot more banal and everyday relationship with tech.
OTOH I only watched it once and spent time rolling my eyes at it. I didn't see it at an impressionable age. Vast ranges of time is an ok idea though I think I wasn't interested by then.
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 10 January 2023 10:14 (one year ago) link
Always remember Mark S saying somewhere on here that in Kubrick's future they still hadn't sorted the Visible Panty Line.
― Ward Fowler, Tuesday, 10 January 2023 10:21 (one year ago) link