Phish C/D

So I've been offered a free ticket to NYE @ MSG, never been to a Phish show, kind of want to experience that but it's also the most challenging music imaginable to me. Obviously i should accept but I worry it's going to be more of an endurance test than enjoyable. BradNelson's deep dive upthread is heroic and encouraging but is this gonna be biting off more than i can chew?

oh i would go. the last time they played msg there was a 3d projection of a whale, i.e. the production will be worth however much you end up disliking the music

Well, I did go. I mainly wanted to get a sense of what their fans love so much about 'em. They've always provoked the worst of my cynicism, and I really wanted to be able to set that aside and just try to appreciate Phish. There's something about them, and especially their fans' devotion to them, that makes me wanna try. And secondarily, I wanted the show to provide some kind of celebratory atmosphere for new years' eve. I would say they gave me all of that, but only for a glimmer; the base note was definitely Phish Show, which, i mean, fair enough. Unfortunately the sillage is disagreeable, there's a whiff of insularity. So I'm kinda disappointed, mostly in myself, that my cynicism won out in the end. Uh, because there were moments when I was grinning from ear to ear, or utterly astonished, at a total loss for words etc

In fairness, I don't think I've seen a show on anything even close to this scale. I mean, apart from Van Hagar when I was 10, the very largest venues I've been to are around 2k capacity. And I found MSG very overwhelming, it took me a good chunk of the show to adjust to the extent I was able to adjust, which was only somewhat. If there was an element of an endurance test, like, it had nothing to do with the music or the length of the show, it was more because of that. Obviously I sorta knew going into it that it's MSG, I just did not expect that to be so challenging or distracting. Just, nothing could have prepared me for that.

So, y'know, the "gag"(?) was like the stoner version of a Super Bowl halftime show kind of production *exhales slowly* I... uh... maybe this is a much more common thing in pop music than rock, i don't know. But like, it's definitely kind of brilliant how they're able to play the unpredictability cards within the predetermined framework in such a fun way. And to create this anticipation of surprise and really deliver, I defo think the Phish Roulette aspect is a big part of the appeal. They did Ghost (by far my favorite song of theirs that I know going into this) into Bohemian Rhapsody with alternate lyrics about The Story of the Ghost, and then just where the headbanging section is supposed to come in, they unexpectedly went back into Ghost- that downbeat was my single favorite moment.

I'm glad you got to experience that show, even if it didn't win you over in the end. I think I know what you mean re: insularity. Reading the description of the NYE "gag" on phish.net it sounds like a bunch of in-jokes and references to previous New Year's stunts that would be impenetrable to all but devoted Heads.

I haven't heard any of the show, but just reading this first set has me salivating: Tweezer, Halley's Comet -> Set Your Soul Free > Rift, Cavern > Tweezer > Shade, Mike's Song > I Am Hydrogen > Weekapaug Groove

They didn't win me over, but I'm feeling a little better about their show than i was when i wrote that. Guess I'm still processing. I would say i'm on the fence now, and happy with that as the takeaway. Will give them another shot when the mood strikes.

Phish NYE is an impressive undertaking for someone who doesn't like Phish!

i was surprised to find that the conventional wisdom was Rift is considered a lesser album (too slick maybe idk?) because that was my initial phoray into Phish and honestly i think it's pretty great.

rift is awesome!!!!!!

― STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Saturday, July 3, 2021 3:31 PM (one year ago) bookmarkflaglink

i got off the boat around the time of billy breathes (seemed to get away from a lot of what i liked about them at the time) but i should probably re-explore them again. i have a phish-head friend and i'm sure she has a garageful of bootlegs.

another explanation offered upthread is that some phish fans tend to rate albums by how many deathless setlist classics are on them. rift has "maze" and "it's ice" but is otherwise a coherent moodpiece and songs from it end up in the rotation sparingly

it is like a billion times better than picture of nectar but picture of nectar has "chalkdust" mannn (drained completely of its energy, god the production on nectar suxx)

would love to hear your thoughts on story of the ghost omar

I'm with you, Rift is probably one of my favorite of their studio albums. I've always thought it made for a better album experience than A Picture of Nectar, which I've always found overrated. It's fine, but so many of those songs are much better live, while I find the Rift songs to work really well in studio form too!

And, just for the hell of it, here's how I'd rank the studio output as of today:

Billy Breathes
The Story of the Ghost
Rift
Sigma Oasis (yes, really)
Junta
Lawn Boy
A Picture of Nectar
Farmhouse
Joy
Hoist (though I have a soft spot since it was my first Phish album ever)
Fuego
Round Room
Big Boat
Undermind

lol, Brad otm with a more eloquent way of trying to make the same point

For me, Billy Breathes does the same sort of job as Rift, just in a different way, I find it to be a really great and cohesive listen. Ghost is just the weirdest Phish studio album and I love it so much.

gonna get in an ongoing listening session and report back with my findings, and need to revisit those early albums (junta and rift my most-listened to by far)

Rift is by the far the studio album I've heard in its entirety most, it was frequently played at both of the houses full of hippie women i hung out with in college.

I've been at multiple weddings where "Sparkle" gets played at peak drunk dancing hour and everyone goes nuts.

Story of the Ghost is good, not bad. It strikes me as a real jazzy jam session, like lots of acts would aspire to this kind of thing but it comes off as noodling but these guys are exceptionally tight even on an album which is imo clearly coming a lot from improvisation even more than usual.

Dud.

Today I had to drive for several hours solo in a car with Sirius XM. Flipped through the stations for most of the ride, arriving at the Phish station after 3ish hours. I ended up listening to a track with “Wolfman” in its name from Halloween 1998 (I think) for maybe 20 minutes of keyboard/bass/drums drone. It was perfect for that point in the ride! But I was totally unfamiliar with the song. Is that drone jam a regular part of their set? It didn’t sound like there was any guitar unless it was going through chorus/delays pedals, heavily processed.

“wolfman’s brother” is one of their best songs and has often been used as a stage for their improvisational development, so the drone definitely isn’t a regular thing but i’m unsurprised it appeared in a “wolfman’s” jam. i’ll have to track that down

(the wolfman’s on slip stitch and pass is often considered patient zero for the funky ‘97 style)

I would never call "Wolfman's Brother" one of their best songs personally but Brad is correct that it was a big showcase for the funky style of 1997. The version that you heard, tobo73, is indeed from Halloween 1998 and is considered one of their longest and most droney/ambient jams. That style was most prominent in 1998/1999, and there are many examples, happy to give you a listening list if you like. One of their most celebrated shows by fans, Fukuoka 6/14/2000, has a lot of awesome stuff like that and was officially released so it's on streaming services (Live Phish Volume 4). Trey, the guitarist, did sometimes move to keyboards in that era but I am not sure he does in the jam you heard. He does get deep into pedals and delays and loops though. They don't go to that place too often these days unfortunately, but for the past 5 years or so they will get out there if the jam happens to move in tat direction organically. Modern versions of "Wolfman's" are more likely to embody their more typical tension-and-release rocking out.

^^ totally underrated live album that people pass over because it's not a full show

Yeah tobo, that's a killer "Wolfman's Brother", a big half hour jam. Here's how the folks at phish net describe it in their jam chart notes:

Haunting Halloween Masterpiece. At 9:50, the jam descends from low intensity funk mode into 14 minutes of dark, chilling, effects-laden improvisation. A few movements to resurface are rebuffed, and the jam remains deep down until 24:00 when a bluesy shuffle provides some cathartic relief. -> to "Piper" which further brightens the mood.

I'll have to play that one again later today, remember loving it.

ha Lavator beat me to the punch with a less lazy post

yes much better contextual post than i was capable of, great job lavator

sometimes i think "one of the best phish songs ever" = "a phish song that is stuck in my head all the time but i have yet to hate" for me, this is certainly the case with "wolfman's," but i also think "i hear the high-pitched cavitation / of propellors from afar" is like the quintessential phish lyric (silly, ominous)

yeah, i think the ship has sailed on phish ever having a real hit, but if they had they probably would've ended up in the "songs that only ever appeared in one hit" thread. i've heard wolfman's brother thousands of times and just now realized i didn't have a clue what "cavitation" meant

Phish had their opportunity during the era when Blues Traveler broke out, and even a band like Big Head Todd and the Monsters was getting a little airplay. neither were very similar to Phish but the fanbases overlapped. I guess with Billy breathes they had some songs getting into more radio rotation but they never got poppy enough and stayed stubbornly themselves, to their credit and longevity I think.

xp Another late 98 "Wolfman's" that gets into far-out drone space is 12/28/98:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcMbw3Dx1TE

I heard "Heavy Things" on rock radio pretty often around the time of Farmhouse, think that was the closest thing to a radio hit they ever had

Also just realized “Heavy Things” also uses the word “cavitate” lol

Also just realized “Heavy Things” also uses the word “cavitate” lol

The word so nice I posted it twice

quit cavitatin' up the thread, J. Sam

jk. i was at that 12/28/98 show, it ruled. thx for posting that vid! haven't heard it in a good 20 years, looking forward to listening now

pic.twitter.com/lIUDd4QwoP

— SNL Hosts Introducing the Musical Guest (@snlhostsintro) February 19, 2023

That's awesome you were at 12/28/98, Lavator! Seems like you saw lots of Golden Age shows. What's your favorite one you attended?

These are the kinds of questions Phish fans hope to get asked at parties, and most of the other party guests really hope no one brings up, lol. But since you did!

That New Year's run, 1998, I saw all 4 shows. I was 16, and my Phish-loving friend and I had unsupervised lodging at his grad student cousin's place in NYC. That whole experience was dreamy and those shows were fantastic. Probably the most fun I ever had at a show though was a month earlier, 11/27/98, aka "The Wipeout Show", released as Live Phish 6. Another contender is 6/29/2000 - it was the closest I ever got to the stage at a big arena/amphitheater show, and the first set closing duo of Drowned->Rock and Roll was a peak Phish moment for sure.
The 2 fests I attended were Big Cypress and Magnaball - both incredible and at the top musically, but sort of in their own category.

Here's the list of shows I've seen for anyone interested. As you can see, I've been a more sane show-goer for the past 20+ years, but I still try to see them every year or two when I can. Sadly unlikely to happen this summer, but hoping they hit my current locale of New England in the fall...

Wow, you've seen some legendary stuff. 12/9/95 is one hell of a first show with that YEM. And Big Cypress! 11/27/98 was the first Live Phish I bought when it came out; that second set must have been a blast to witness IRL

yes, exactly - between the great jams, the rarity bustouts, and the Wipeout fest, I think I gave a big bear hug to a total stranger multiple times in that set.

12/9/95 I was in 8th grade, essentially tagged along with a family friend who was a few years older than me and his buddies, and didn't have a clue what was going on. Obviously I got some kind of bug from it though!

Man, you definitely got to see some great 1.0 shows Lavator, that's great. I didn't start seeing them until '96 and only then I was pretty limited to what came to Champaign and the immediate area. Working and going to school full time didn't leave me with the chance to tour hard, breaks and summer were for working to pay for school. I did see some great shows though, with the 8/10/97 probably being the greatest and most memorable. Was supposed to do Big Cypress, but through a series of laughable minor calamities no one from my crew ended up going.

(boring rant ahead that probably no one else here will care about)

Since the summer tour announcement I've been seeing a lot of people on Reddit, Twitter and in other places bemoaning the state of Phish in 2023 and I've spent a lot of time thinking about it because, for the most part, I don't think they are wrong. I'll preface this by saying that we are extremely lucky to have this band exist at all and still touring as much as they do, not to mention still playing as top notch as they are. And I'm really thankful that they've found a reduced schedule that keeps them from getting burnt out, it's a nice balance.

That all said, it's disappointing to see the live Phish experience turning into a playground for the richest of phans only. Obviously you've got the destination weekends like Mexico that only the most privileged of fans are going to afford, which is fine for a one off thing and something tons of bands do these days. But the increased leaning on MSG, in lieu of hitting up more stops (even if they keep the number of shows the same per year) is disappointing for pretty much everyone that doesn't live in the immediate NYC metro area. It's probably one of the most expensive places to travel to see a show and find a place to stay, so seeing another 7 show run there was kind of a bummer (not to mention playing these summer shows indoors instead of out in the sheds, as summer Phish is meant to be played lol). Toss in 4 shows at Dick's, another stop that's just become another big party destination that's really tough to get tickets to, and that's literally 48% of a 23 show tour that is out of reach for a lot of people.

I get that the road dog days of 100+ shows a year are over and I don't begrudge them that one little bit and I get how having MSG as practically backyard shows for the guys is a big draw, but I do miss the days of having a realistic show of seeing them every year or two without having to drop a ton of money to travel.

(end old man 1.0 phan rant)

8/10/97, that's an incredible show to have seen.

i hear you jvc on the old man rant. as a new england resident with a fair number of family and friends in nyc to crash with, i'm spoiled with this band, but it would be nice for them to do some more conventional tours. while they still technically play shows more frequently than the average band, they've sort of come full circle from how they made their name. they no longer really bring the music to the people. you wanna see it, you've gotta come to them. that said, i suspect the alternatives are either that they don't play out regularly and take whole years off, or live an unhealthy lifestyle to the detriment of the people and the music. the former scenario is intriguing, but clearly their prerogative to do their thing.

finally listening to the gorge '98 box

set 2 of 7/17/98 is everything people say it is. best "weekapaug groove" i've heard, it really honks

For New Year's Eve they did the first full Gamehenge since 1994:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSO6H7e-Gm0

I'm only up to "Lizards" but it's fun as hell so far. Huge appropriately goofy production values. Everyone is having a blast and seems super well-rehearsed

I haven't watched the video yet, but I've listened to it a few times and it was fun! The "AC/DC Bag" jam was great.

thank you for posting that - i have been meaning to buy the webcast ex post facto so you just saved me $40 :)

(no guilt, phish have pleeeenty of my money from the past 25 years)

I mean, Phish put that out on their official channel for free, so I don't think there's any need for guilt.

of course. excited to watch it!

i was at 12/29, just sort of treated myself to a ticket and went solo in between family stuff up in massachusetts. i really enjoyed it. the first set was very paint-by-numbers but still played exceedingly well, i thought - the little fills and stuff around the edges in the various war horses was all tight and inspired. Second set the Chalkdust was a total mindfuck of dissonance, one of the coolest things I've heard them play in a while. Rest of the set no slouch either. Recommend

Nice! A Phish NYE show is on my bucket list, 12/29 is the only one of the four I haven't yet listened to at all.

I love the 80s stuff. Any Colorado 88 fans up in this?

I've been waiting until I have time to watch it uninterrupted. Very stoked that they did it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELXfFPGMkrw

his tweets on the subject are even more o_O

This is what it must feel like to cum with a pussy
Because if it’s even close I’m flaying to wherever tomorrow and getting the best pussy money can buy. I don’t need to be a man no more of it means I can feel like this all the time
Fucking keep it bro if I can get this feeling…

— ʎǝɹɐƆ ʍǝɹᗡ (@DrewFromTV) April 22, 2024