King Crimson: Classic Or Dud

*and as Levin and the moderator confessed,

I loved the doc, and its far more revealing of Fripp and his ultra-perfectionism and how that has impacted on other ex-members then i would expect in advance. respect him a lot actually for seemingly being quite hands off with the edit, as its not always that complementary towards him.

Did the doc ever get released? The official site has it available for preorder, with a release date of Nov. 11, so ...

https://shop.schizoidshop.com/king-crimson---film-blu-ray--dvd---in-the-court-of-the-crimson-king---king-crimson-at-50-p1955.aspx

Yeah Burning Shed has been shipping copies for a while now.

I noticed they're also taking pre-orders for the 8-disc "expanded" version (2 Blu, 2 DVD, 4 CDs):
https://shop.schizoidshop.com/king-crimson---film-expanded-set---in-the-court-of-the-crimson-king---king-crimson-at-50-p1954.aspx

There's a lot of amazing shit on the 4 CDs of that soundtrack. I'm kinda tempted.

Is it all the soundtrack? I think I saw something that it was half soundtrack, half career spanning archive stuff, which no doubt overlaps with several past releases. It's hard to keep track of all their stuff.

There's no way to rent/stream the movie (yet), right?

no not yet, and it also hasn't slipped out to torrent sites (I don't know if my blu ray player works, hence me looking)

Yeah, I spent a bunch of time searching. The soundtrack is out there, though, so it's not like it's the Fripp file sharing omerta in effect.

It is on torrent sites, at least the one I'm a member of.

On the "Track listing" tab on that product page, and there's a breakdown of the material (see footnote/asterisk guide at very bottom):
CDs 1-4 (MUSIC FROM THE FILM SOUNDTRACK AND BEYOND )

CD1
1. Introductory Bellscape - Live 06-07/11/18 *
2. 21st Century Schizoid Man (edit) - mixed by Steven Wilson 2019
3. Moonchild (including cadenzas) - Live in Philadelphia, 23/09/19 **
4. Cat Food - from Cat Food EP Alt. mix by David Singleton
5. Lizard: i Prince Rupert Awakes Recorded at Wessex Studios, 1970, Keith Tippett piano 
ii Bolero iii Dawn Song iv Last Skirmish v Prince Rupertʼs Lament - Live in Rome 23/07/18 * [exc I, prev. rel]
6. The Letters - Live in the studio, Tring, 2018 *
7. Sailorʼs Tale - Live in the studio, Tring, 2018 *
8. Easy Money - Live in Oakland 05/09/19 **
9. Larksʼ Tongues In Aspic Part Two (Fripp) - Alt. mix by Steven Wilson 2012

CD 2
1. Fracture - Live in the studio, Tring, 2018 *
2. Fallen Angel - 2009 remaster by Robert Fripp & Simon Heyworth
3. Discipline - Live in the studio, Tring, 2018 *
4. Cadence And Cascade - Live in the studio, Tring, 2018 *
5. The ConstruKction Of Light - Live In Nijmegen, 22/06/19 **
6. Peace - Live in Vienna 01/12/16
7. Matte Kudasai (alt. intro) Recorded at Island Studios, 1981
8. The Mincer - Live in Zurich, 1973, completed at Air Studios, 1974
9. A Scarcity Of Miracles - Live in Japan 2015
10. Radical Action Suite - Live in the studio, Tring, 2018 *
Radical Action I / Meltdown / Radical Action II / Level Five 
11. Peace A Theme - mixed by Steven Wilson 2022 *

CD 3
1. Drumzilla - Live in Los Angeles 06/08/21 *
2. Waiting Man - Live in Frejus 27/08/82
3. Seizure - Live in San Francisco, 01/11/98
4. The Talking Drum - Alt. mix by Steven Wilson 2012
5. Indiscipline - Live in Del Ray Beach 23/07/21 **
6. Exposure - Mixed by Steven Wilson 2021
7. VROOOM - Live in Toronto 20/11/15
8. Coda: Marine 475 -Live in London 01/07/96
9. Darts - 2022 remaster by Marian Hafenstein at Possible Studios, Berlin **
10. Requiem (Extended version) - mixed by Steven Wilson 2013

CD 4
1. Walk On: Rio - Live in Rio de Janeiro 06/10/19 *
2. Larksʼ Tongues In Aspic Part One - Live in Stuttgart 16/06/19 ***
3. Breathless - Live in Poland 2018
4. One More Red Nightmare - Live in Sandy 03/08/21 ***
5. Epitaph - Live in Rio de Janeiro 06/10/20 *
6. Frame By Frame - Live in Nashville 27/09/19 ***
7. Pictures Of A City - Live in Osaka 02/12/21 ***
8. Red - Live in St. Augustine 24/07/21 ***
9. The Court Of The Crimson King - Live in Rio de Janeiro 06/10/21 *
10. Starless - Live in Tokyo 08/12/21 *

Key to OST: * = Previously unreleased, ** Previously Available via download at DGM Live/Cassette only release, *** Previously available in a different mix/master at DGM Live. All asterisked material new to CD.

xpost Well, if it's on one it's only a matter of time, I'm just surprised I haven't found it on any of the usual (non-member) sites yet.

I thought the doc was pretty good and, regardless, the best we were ever going to get on this band/man. Fripp is such a weirdo that even if the group were not mythically unknowable he would still ensure it came off cloaked in mystery. I do kind of wish they were able to delve even more into Rieflin, who after all is iirc introduced as the first member of Crimson whom Fripp actually considered/considers a friend. I've always liked Rieflin, but even seeing him live with the band I was never quite sure what, compared to the mutants around him, he brought to it, beyond Fripp's approval, which seemingly helped keep things anchored. Given he is so much of the focus of this it would have been nice to see some interaction with Fripp, though tbh there are very few scenes in this featuring anyone interacting with anyone else, at least offstage. Definitely one of the rare gigs, like Miles and Zappa, whose place on a resume pretty much says it all. Is it any wonder so many of the players have trouble putting their tenure into words?

I wonder what someone that has no idea about Crimson would make of the doc?

Thinking about this compilation/sampler, which hooked me into Frippworld for years in high school: https://www.discogs.com/release/902915-Various-Sometimes-God-Hides-The-Young-Persons-Guide-To-Discipline

reading that track list reminded me of the VROOOM EP, which was weirdly my introduction to King Crimson (I found the CD in a used CD store and King Crimson were among those bands I didn't really know much about but wanted to check out). Kind of a weird entry point for KC, but it's what made me a fan and I think the tracks that appear on both VROOOM and Thrak sound better on VROOOM (production is just too smoothed out on Thrak, the tracks lose a lot of their energy).

VROOOM EP was my intro too! I won tickets on the radio to see them the same year and the EP! My dad took me. He said "oh yah they band with the scary face on the cover" blew my young mind!

Nice. I think Thrak and this compilation might have been mine? Around the time they had some mainstream distribution and the drummers were appearing in Modern Drummer, lol. I had heard the name and those are what I found first.

I guess the Midnight Special's YouTube channel is slowly uploading its archive. They recently put up some great ones of King Crimson, specifically the Cross, Bruford, Wetton, and Fripp line-up. Pretty amazing, I've heard a ton of bootlegs but I just realized this may be the first time I've seen them. (I can't even remember if live footage of this line-up was even in the documentary - if they were, it was probably a brief glimpse.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4hrwgMndEo

here's a good one from about a year earlier

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhudDa3JAyc

I've seen a great Starless+ from that era, probably the same set as yours, Moodles, as it's got the same video effects (German TV). About 27 minutes long. iirc.

That Easy Money on MS is insane, that bass tone <3

I watched the doc tonight as someone going through KC chronologically and still in the early 1980s. It gives me some idea of how the band will further evolve with the years.

I have to say I was unimpressed by the live performance of "Starless" on the BD extras. John Wetton’s vocals are widely considered the weak point of the original Red recording, and then Fripp hired in Jakko Jakszyk an even weaker vocalist? I’m not expecting much from that iteration of KC, but still it was primarily a live act rehashing old material, maybe there isn’t much for me as a home listener anyway.

yeah I have zero interest in Fripp's obsessive reworkings of the older material, there's already so much so listen to in the "original" (?) 1969-2009 era

Your view notwithstanding, I’m not sure that was a widely held belief. Personally I’ve always loved Wetton’s vocals, particularly on ballads.

Still looking forward to seeing the doc.

Jakko is not a particularly good singer but I do think he’s the one guy who can somewhat do justice to all the various eras of Crimson. He does sound like a blend of all their singers. Belew obviously has a better voice but when he does the old material it just comes off weird

exactly, Jakko's voice is generic enough to work with all of the earlier stuff (particularly the Lake-Haskel-Burrell era); and likewise, when he did Belew songs it also came off weird

I could see that. when I saw the "triple trio" lineup in summer 1995 w/Belew the only older songs I remember them doing were Larks Tongues II and Red, so it wasn't an issue. they were awesome, esp the Discipline stuff.

yes also I don't recall Belew ever singing any of the earlier incarnation's songs except the couple of times they did Schizoid Man. I guess there's the studio version of him doing "Cadance and Cascade", where he did he best not to sound like himself.

o yah they mighta done Schizoid, it was forever ago but that rings a bell

i think they only played that a handful of times, and not in the double duo but later in the 2000's; I can't seem to find good documentation of this right now

sorry, not in the double trio, but in the 'double duo' lineups that came after

ah OK, I would def not trust my memory in that especially since I clearly remember the other 2 early ones

well, a live version is on the Thrak box, so they must have played it once. and I thought they played it later, but I'm not sure; one of the projekts did though.

it's here but I can't seem to find the actual setlist, there is a ROIO

https://www.pf-db.com/index.php?concert_id=8632&bootleg_id=13499

Come to think of it the only pre Discipline songs I’ve heard Belew do are Schizoid and Cadence. Cadence is pretty enough that I think he can handle it, but Schizoid Man just sounds all wrong, he just doesn’t have that evil grit the song needs. Even Boz and Wetton are fairly convincing. It’s weird too cuz Belew does some pretty spot on impressions of other great singers.

Full 1982 show posted to the KC YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTDgmt9A2I0

Those 80s concerts are gold

somebody itt long ago recommended the Absent Lovers set, which is indeed greatet

its the perfect live album. every single tune just wipes the floor with the studio version (except the two instrumentals from the 70s). I got so into it that I just didn't listen to the studio albums at all. a little later I found a copy of Discipline and when I played it my first thought was "oh no...turntable's broken"

Co-sign. Maybe my favorite live album ever, just astonishing playing and energy and joy. Wild that it’s a document of their last-ever performance.

Great it's on YT, I will put it on

Ahh, I hoped this might be a new show – the Frejus concert was released on VHS back in the 80s and I saw it in high school. Nice that it’s in YT tho. The “Waiting Man” version with Belew and Bruford duetting on percussion is fun.

Worth noting that KC opened for Roxy Music on this gig (tour?) and this is the same show where The High Road was recorded.

Damn. What an incredible pairing that show would've been.

According to Bruford, in the dressing room after recording the Absent Lovers set, Fripp lengthily detailed all the band's errors and insufficiencies that made it a disappointing performance.

looool

Count me in for being a long-time advocate of Absent Lovers, for me that basically *is* their '80s output.

after "Waiting Man" Belew says something like "I think that's the best we've ever done it" and I always imagined Fripp scowling at him right after

xxp that is amazing

I've always wondered if Absent Lovers had some overdubs on it because to my ears it is absolutely flawless. the only mistakes I can hear is maybe a backing vocal going a little off-key.

that “waiting man” is so legit

Did we ever do a KC ballot poll?