"Smells Like Teen Spirit" - Classic Or Dud?

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pleez Lyra, our generation rox. We have French House!

Chupa-Cabras, Saturday, 27 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Ha! "U Stink But I Love U" VS "Smells Like Teen Spirit" FITE!

The Billy and the Boingers collection (was that the title?) came with a flexi-disc that I never got to listen to and now I really want to know what it sounds like. Bloom County was a disturbingly large influence during my formative years.

adam, Sunday, 28 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

I'm glad somebody noticed my reference -- and I'm even more pleased it was Vic! ;-) The flexidisc was ridiculously good fun, Adam -- Mucky Pup did one of the tracks, I forget which. One song prominently featured Bill's tongue being played, another Opus's tuba playing, which reached realms of heavy metal/jazz fusion that Sonny Sharrock could never dream of. Sorta. ;-)

Ned Raggett, Sunday, 28 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

I have to ask this- who/what is this French House? An AMG search is turning up nothing, and I'm curious!

lyra in seattle, Sunday, 28 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Its pretty self-explaining: House music by French.

Ill put on some big names on it but im sure other persons know way more than i do: Air, Alex Gopher, Cassius, Daft Punk, Dimitri From Paris, Etienne de Crecy, Laurent Garnier, St Germain

Chupa-Cabras, Sunday, 28 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Ah, I get it now. Yeah, I'll give you that you have some good music- but I can't bring myself to believe that any songs as classic as Smells Like Teen Spirit are going to come out of nu-metal. Mr. Cobain did teen agnst much better Mr. Durst has, from what I've heard.

lyra in seattle, Sunday, 28 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

I think "Toxicity" is better than "Smells Like Teen Spirit".

sundar subramanian, Sunday, 28 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Anything by Sistem of A Down is

Chupa-Cabras, Sunday, 28 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

All the four songs i heard, and taking out Aerials(wich sux)

Chupa-Cabras, Sunday, 28 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

two months pass...
How on God's green earth are people making comparisons between system of a down and Nirvana? Nirvana was the epitome of what music should be, and in my personal opinion, they still are. They captured rage, hostility, depression, love, hate, sex, drugs, and life in words which Kurt Cobain seemed to magically intertwine with his totally innovative, knuckle contorting guitar playing. It just fit. And no matter what the words mean to us, they meant something to the writer. and instead of kurt trying to appeal to his audiences, i.e. writing something easily understood by everyone, he chose to sum up his thoughts and emotions in words that didnt reveal everything. God forbid the song isnt totally interpretable. The beauty behind Nirvana is that the group ended still at the top of its game, mystery surrounding everything. through the mystery of the what the song might mean, and through the mystery around kurt's death, the band's name will never be forgotten. Im not sucking anyones dick here, i just think everyone is being overcritical and biased in looking at things. the fact is, they were a revolutionary band, and sorry buddy, without Nirvana, System of a Down would be dancing around in tight leather pants along with every other band that would have been stuck in the 80s. they brought about a progrssion. and thats what it has to be about...the progression........

-matt

Matt Paradisi, Tuesday, 1 October 2002 00:18 (twenty-one years ago) link

I don't quite agree with you on this, Matt. System of a Down come from a pretty different place musically--if Rage Against the Machine or Primus or Zappa or Rush hadn't happened, THEN they might be dancing around in tight leather pants. (Oversimplification to make point; I'm sure y'all understand me here, i.e. please don't let this turn into the whiny bitchfest that this thread started out as.) Nirvana certainly had some impact on them, but not, to my ears, so much that it would've altered them completely.

M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 1 October 2002 02:28 (twenty-one years ago) link

classic. its fun and catchy. kurt was cute with black hair. i like sliver better.

di smith (lucylurex), Tuesday, 1 October 2002 03:26 (twenty-one years ago) link

smells like teen spirit is a good song it still has meening to thos who have non. i guess the oly way to under stand is if it still has meening to you

Alf G, Friday, 11 October 2002 19:16 (twenty-one years ago) link

well I never heard a song by nirvana, (old school rap guy, ya ya flame away) anyway, the song is pretty cool and love listening to it when i'm wrenching or programming,
but then again I also like the transformers soundtrack =) great driving music!

cliff notes on mypost: thumbs up

someguy, Thursday, 17 October 2002 00:23 (twenty-one years ago) link

I rekon all you people out there hassling SLTS are just a bunch of moron. You go on about his life etc like u know him personally, and saying the lyrics are all shit etc.

Read the biography/autobiography of Kurt and all will make sense. Its a good book, and explains a lot about his life, and how his songs and lyrics came to be.

TIMMY!!!, Tuesday, 22 October 2002 03:48 (twenty-one years ago) link

"Smells Like Teen Spirit" was one of those great, great, great record store moments. "What the fuck is this?"
"Nirvana. Comes out next week."
"What day?"
The only standard by which you can judge a song a million plays later is whether the sound is still arresting, and I still think it is. His screaming voice. The fucked up guitar solo. His cracking and rolling on the last verse. Sorry, but "Velouria" and "Safe European Home" aren't even in the same universe...

Pete Scholtes, Tuesday, 22 October 2002 06:34 (twenty-one years ago) link

just a bunch of moron

A freshly plucked, sweet smelling bunch at that.

Read the biography/autobiography of Kurt and all will make sense.

You are reading the words of Charles Cross, Springsteen apologist = you are cursed.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 22 October 2002 15:14 (twenty-one years ago) link

haha someone called someone else a "stinker" on this thread.

this song was created by pynchon you know

bob zemko (bob), Tuesday, 22 October 2002 17:35 (twenty-one years ago) link

p 538

bob zemko (bob), Tuesday, 22 October 2002 17:36 (twenty-one years ago) link

Like some other people I first heard SLTS when I had just left home and come away to university. I had a lot to take in in 1991 - although I'd been listening to a wide variety of things (including Sonic Youth and the Dead Kennedys), on arrival at uni I was exposed to Goth, Crusty (in case this is UK 1991-93 specific as I suspect that basically means The Levellers and other soap-shy folksters) and this new thing called Grunge. I did nothing but listen to records and go to clubs for that whole first year (and had to resit... but it was worth it!). There are a lot of songs that bring that time back for me. 'Add It Up' is one. 'Losing My Religion' is one. SLTS is another.

It's not possible for me to be objective about something so emotionally laden. So a nostalgic thumbs up from me. I THINK it's a classic.

Zora (Zora), Tuesday, 22 October 2002 21:22 (twenty-one years ago) link

As some of you know my day job involves with with behaviorally disordered children, average age 11. This morning I was driving one of the kids to school, a young man who if this had been four years ago would have been completely all about Nirvana, and "Teen Spirit" came on the radio. I turned it up: no reaction. I asked if he knew the song, and he said no, that wasn't really his kind of music. To at least one rebellious fuck-shit-up early teenager, "Smells Like Teen Spirit" now sounds like any other classic rock song.

NB three other kids in the car, roughly same age group, all comparably disinterested -- they go through the room for Slim Shady though ;)

J0hn Darn13ll3, Tuesday, 22 October 2002 21:28 (twenty-one years ago) link

Composing SLTS

More on Kurt's diaries: Newsweek, Observer

Underclocked, Thursday, 24 October 2002 03:01 (twenty-one years ago) link

I'm having a difficult time understanding the reasoning behind all of this unfair lambasting of "Teen Spirit." In order to really appreciate this song, I believe that you have to be, well, a little more sympathetic of the infinitely troubled psyche of Kurt Cobain and the true nature of the pain that existed behind his art. Cobain was by no means your stereotypical rock star; he made it clear that he reviled the avarice and superficiality of the corporate world. He also hated the unrelenting scrutiny forced upon him by the media. It is true that he desired success, but he wanted it on his own terms. He was, admittedly, rather idealistic in his thinking, but how could he have foreseen that he would leave such a profound marking on the hearts of so many people? When "SLTS" shot up the charts, Kurt was more confused than he was pleased. He ended up HATING the song as well as the entire "Nevermind" album; he was completely disgusted with the fact that the majority of the people who bought the record failed to truly empathize with his meaning and message. As for the song itself, well, I will try to present a valid defense of it. Contrary to popular skepticism, I don't think SLTS is a Pixies rip-off. Cobain was certainly heavily influenced by the Pixies, but Nirvana possessed a very distinctive quality and sound that no other band has been able to counter, at least in my opinion. "Teen Spirit" is a classic for many reasons - the opening riff, the brilliant use of the quiet-loud dynamic, the crashing guitar hooks and thundering drumbeats, etc. - but the thing that gives the song its greatest claim to power is undoubtedly Cobain's enraged, visceral, blisteringly heated vocals, and the feelings of urgency and perpetual angst that are conveyed through them. This song WAS the defining call-to-arms of the 1990s, an earth-shattering piece of guitar-driven rebellion that shook an entire generation and drove fear into the hearts of its elders. It had meaning as well; the lyrics were purposely vague and esoteric, but they were not all that difficult to interpret, especially with the release of a clever and time-defining video. "SLTS" was an ingenious encapsulation of the angst and apathy felt by the "Slacker Generation," and once unleashed on the public, its impact was indispensable. It rules. Period. Oh, and to those of you who try to devalue Cobain because of his choice to commit suicide - GET A LIFE! Are you yourself an excruciatingly sensitive, painfully artistic, heroin-addicted manic-depressive? No? Okay, then. Suicide is a right, and although it is an act of selfishness, it is not an act of cowardice. Judging a person for committing suicide, to me, in inexcusable; do you have even the slightest concept of what that person was going through when they decided to end their life? Have some goddamn sympathy! Okay, I'm done now.

Becky, Thursday, 31 October 2002 03:45 (twenty-one years ago) link

do you read many magazines

boxcubed (boxcubed), Thursday, 31 October 2002 03:56 (twenty-one years ago) link

I was nine in 1991. I actually have never heard the Nirvana version of the song (only an MP3 of the Tori Amos cover), have no clue what the lyrics are, and have never seen the music video. My hunt for the lyrics themselves on the internet has revealed many pages of random schmucks pontificating the life-changing aspects of a few selected lines, and how the world will never be the same, but the actual LYRICS don't seem to be out there. (Damn google to hell.) I think I'll give up and return to Ani Difranco's Swan Dive.

Steph422, Thursday, 31 October 2002 04:13 (twenty-one years ago) link

Between tribute bands and the omnipresence of Nirvana t-shirts on the Youth of Today, and Dave Grohl's new high profile, I've been thinking about this song (==Nirvana) a lot.

It was to me what a hundred songs were to a hundred generations, a starter's gun, a notice that this group of kids had more in common with each other than even with their like-minded older brothers and sisters. They didn't get it, they didn't have it, and now no-one else wants it. It's still great. The first few chords of it thrown into Moulin Rouge hit with an almost physical force.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Thursday, 31 October 2002 14:12 (twenty-one years ago) link

Suicide is a right, and although it is an act of selfishness, it is not an act of cowardice. Judging a person for committing suicide, to me, in inexcusable; do you have even the slightest concept of what that person was going through when they decided to end their life? Have some goddamn sympathy! Okay, I'm done now.

This is a criminally stupid thing to say.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 31 October 2002 18:01 (twenty-one years ago) link

its a good song and cobain was a good songwriter but please Becky there's more to music than bloody grunge OK.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 31 October 2002 18:13 (twenty-one years ago) link

"Smells Like Teen Spirit" and "More Than a Feeling" have totally different riffs. The chords in Teen Spirit are (roughly) F minor, A# minor, G# major, C# major; the chord in MTaF are (again, roughly) G major, C major, E minor, D major.

Curtis Stephens, Thursday, 31 October 2002 21:42 (twenty-one years ago) link

Your enharmonics hurt me in my heart.

SLTS: F minor, B-flat minor, A-flat major, D-flat major (which, IIRC, resolves back to F minor 2nd inversion). i-iv-iii-VI(i)

MTAF: G major, C major, E minor, D major. I-IV-vi-V.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 31 October 2002 22:19 (twenty-one years ago) link

(I have PROVEN BY SCIENCE that the main riffs to SLTS and MTAF are both intro-level theory exercizes.)

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 31 October 2002 22:21 (twenty-one years ago) link

Am I the only person who sees how shit Nirvana are? Maybe it's being surrounded by mind-numbing teenagers with Nirvana hoodies on that makes me hate them so much, but I really don't see what makes them so great.

Callum (Callum), Thursday, 31 October 2002 22:27 (twenty-one years ago) link

by the time this hit rock radio, my freshman year at U of Michigan, I had been listening to an advance cassette copy for about 5 or 6 months. I dug it, but definitely did not expect it to hit as hard as it did--and for a while I was majorly stoked, thinking "wow, music that I like is actually going to be on the radio." needless to say my dream was shattered by the level of sheer genericism that quickly invaded grunge rock, and the groups I really liked like the afghan whigs (back before greg dulli was a washed-up fat slob) were basically overlooked. soon, weak-ass bands like bush were all that was left of grunge and shitty neu-metal was beginning to wax.

So to me, SLTS was a spark of hope that quickly turned into disappointment by the mid-90s.

webcrack (music=crack), Thursday, 31 October 2002 22:33 (twenty-one years ago) link

Pffft. Grunge killes Shoegazer. Or was it brit-pop... Meh. Brit-pop sucks too.

*is so full of hate*

Callum (Callum), Thursday, 31 October 2002 22:35 (twenty-one years ago) link

Pffft. Grunge killed Shoegazer. Or was it brit-pop... Meh. Brit-pop sucks too.

*is so full of hate*

Callum (Callum), Thursday, 31 October 2002 22:35 (twenty-one years ago) link

Dan, the whole SLTS minor/major thing... you're saying those aren't fifth chords:


e - x
b - x
g - x
d - 3
a - 3
e - 1

just wonderin'... i haven't heard the song in a while (thank god) but can't imagine that KC's intentions would necessarily be theory-aligned.

gygax!, Thursday, 31 October 2002 23:35 (twenty-one years ago) link

(Bear in mind that I'm looking at this strictly from a notes-on-the-staff perspective; I don't play guitar at all.) The intentions may not be theory-aligned, but it's a very standard chord progession that fits directly into the first-year theory framework; I'm not sure what you mean by "fifth chords", but if you wrote out the F minor scale and looked at the chords within its framework, you'd write them the way I did as opposed to the way Curtis did. (I did make a mistake and notate "iii" when I meant "III", though.)

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 1 November 2002 15:08 (twenty-one years ago) link

Not a bad song, but I can't hear it now without thinking of Chris Morris's far superior version from The Day Today. ("You can wear it on the high street, body contours, very discreet. And the comfort you won't believe, cos the top sheet is a dry weave. Yeah!")

Closely followed by the great FurQ.

James Ball (James Ball), Friday, 1 November 2002 15:59 (twenty-one years ago) link

Yes, I'm aware they're fifth chords, but I was trying to make a point of the fact that Teen Spirit is in a minor key. Besides, I have minimal knowledge of theory..

Curtis Stephens, Friday, 1 November 2002 20:41 (twenty-one years ago) link

I'm aware they're fifth chords, but I was trying to make a point of the fact that Teen Spirit is in a minor key. Besides, I have minimal knowledge of theory, I'm a self taught musician; I can't even read sheet music... Enharmonics don't bother me :P

Curtis Stephens, Friday, 1 November 2002 20:42 (twenty-one years ago) link

gra, double post

Curtis Stephens, Friday, 1 November 2002 20:43 (twenty-one years ago) link

just a counterpoint:

what if the opening F is indeed major and the key changes mid-measure from F-major to whatever (is it G#?)...

the only reason i'm propping this argument up is because i was schooled in music that did not follow traditional convention (erm, *hardcore*), and just because a chord progression includes another chord up 3 tones does not automatically dictate that the previous chord was its relative minor... esp. when dealing with power chords of the grunge superstar variety.

gygax!, Friday, 1 November 2002 20:54 (twenty-one years ago) link

I cannot find an A played anywhere in Teen Spirit...

Curtis Stephens, Friday, 1 November 2002 21:06 (twenty-one years ago) link

Could someone tell me what a "fifth chord" is?

Relative minor is related to this only because I rewrote the chord progression so that they were related to a home key (F minor) rather than a series of unrelated chords. The reason they sound so good together is because they naturally lead into each other.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 1 November 2002 21:37 (twenty-one years ago) link

A fifth chord consists of a note and its perfect fifth. Not really a "chord" by the standard definition but it's definitely one of the central components of modern rock music, especially metal.

Curtis Stephens, Friday, 1 November 2002 21:46 (twenty-one years ago) link

Destiny's Child revived this one for me.

Ben Williams, Friday, 1 November 2002 21:47 (twenty-one years ago) link

BTW, I'm 14 and I've only recently become a Nirvana fan (and no, it wasn't because of YKYR :P). It's safe to say that Nirvana hasn't lost any meaning over the years.

Curtis Stephens, Friday, 1 November 2002 21:57 (twenty-one years ago) link

i'm 13 and a gemini... wanna hang out?

gygax!, Friday, 1 November 2002 22:14 (twenty-one years ago) link

Okay, so since there's no third in a fifth chord, it's implied by whatever key signature the song is in (F-minor in this case, precisely because the first chord is an F and the second chord is an A-flat).

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Saturday, 2 November 2002 16:53 (twenty-one years ago) link

"Smells Like Teen Spirit"?? Good song and all, but my main question is why the hell was it chosen as the anthem for Generation X? You can't understand any of the words!! It's not for nothing that my main man "Weird Al" Yankovic wrote a song called "Smells Like Nirvana" about how you couldn't understand any of the guy's words. "It's unintelligible / It's hard tomuhph mummph meeph muff mouff / With all these marbles in my mouth."

I don't know. it's an OK song. I guess I'm just more of a "Bastards of Young"/"Groove is in the Heart" kinda guy when it comes to my personal generation anthems.

Evan, Saturday, 2 November 2002 21:41 (twenty-one years ago) link


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