The Pronunciation Thread

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kate was in a band with leslie west!

bad jode (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 10 December 2003 19:08 (twenty years ago) link

(who is a he obv)

bad jode (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 10 December 2003 19:08 (twenty years ago) link

I pronounce mountain either way but I generally drop the middle 't', I suppose it is some kind of southern thing. Also "fire" has two syllables.

TOMBOT, Wednesday, 10 December 2003 19:19 (twenty years ago) link

Fire is supposed to have two syllables, how else do you pronounce the combination of letters there? Between this and that thread where someone said "romance" and "dance" don't rhyme I'm starting to feel like I talk like a total freak.

"FYE-ERRR" that is how that is pronounced, everyone I know says it like that. However I do not understand this "t" dropping nonsense, I can't even figure out how that would work, if I try to say it like that I cannot.

My sister is like physically incapable of pronouncing the letter g if it is anywhere in a word besides the very start, which is odd.

Allyzay, Wednesday, 10 December 2003 19:25 (twenty years ago) link

How does she say "higgeldy-piggeldy" then?

Casuistry (Chris P), Wednesday, 10 December 2003 21:28 (twenty years ago) link

"hilllldy piiii-illdy"

Allyzay, Wednesday, 10 December 2003 21:29 (twenty years ago) link

Can I get a .wav of her saying that?

Casuistry (Chris P), Wednesday, 10 December 2003 22:00 (twenty years ago) link

I don't think she has the technology to create such a thing.

Allyzay, Wednesday, 10 December 2003 22:03 (twenty years ago) link

Ally you're the only American to pronounce "mountain" that way that i've ever known. was it the dry Southwestern air that honed your consonants to such an Audrey Hepburn sharpness?

(in Texas "fire" is pronounced "far," obv)

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 10 December 2003 22:14 (twenty years ago) link

and school is pronounced "skool," not "skoo-wuhl," as New Yorkers with "no accent" would have us believe.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 10 December 2003 22:16 (twenty years ago) link

i pronounce it "skool."

bad jode (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 10 December 2003 22:17 (twenty years ago) link

IMPOSTER

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 10 December 2003 22:21 (twenty years ago) link

Who in the hell even pronounces it "skooo-whul"??? Tracer, are you sure you actually lived in NY ever?

Allyzay, Wednesday, 10 December 2003 22:24 (twenty years ago) link

at least pick on new yorkers' inability to use the letter "d" in a word without inexplicably adding a "z" sound to it.

bad jode (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 10 December 2003 22:27 (twenty years ago) link

skewl.

i love the collegian bicoastal accent (er i wrote 'college girl' there which may be poor on my part, but i associate it with a) a girl in my program, b) a girl i uh met in d.c. and c) kathleen hanna) where the vowels are overrounded and at the front of the mouth, sort of valley girl (again with the girl thing, sorry!) but not really.
conv. btw aforementioned girl b. and me:
b: we could hang out on my reef.
g: what?
b: is that okay?
g: your reef?
b: my REWF.
g: haha oh your ROOF
b: dewn't make fun of me, minneapolis

g--ff (gcannon), Wednesday, 10 December 2003 22:29 (twenty years ago) link

two months pass...
What is the definitive way to pronounce the name of Liberal Democrat politician Menzies Campbell? On Newsnight they say it really quickly, so as to avoid having to enunciate it carefully. This morning on Five Live Breakfast they used the short form, which sounded alarmingly like Ming. Ming?! I paid no attention to what he said after that - wrapped up as I was in thoughts of huge collars and devillish beards. So come on, how do you pronounce his name?

Daniel (dancity), Monday, 1 March 2004 18:28 (twenty years ago) link

It's ming-us... toryhme with sing-us....not like Charlie Mingus

winterland, Monday, 1 March 2004 18:32 (twenty years ago) link

Thanks Winterland. Any idea why? It is a particularly strange one.

Daniel (dancity), Monday, 1 March 2004 18:38 (twenty years ago) link

I can reveal that the Lib Dems themselves refer to him as MING (as in 'the Merciless'), as shown by this clip from an email I received from the Muswell Hill local branch the other day:

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Pack"
To: darren
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 6:47 PM
Subject: Social with Ming Campbell MP


Just a reminder that the Lib Dem spring social is a buffet supper with Ming Campbell, the Liberal Democrats' Shadow Foreign Secretary.

It's from 7:30pm on Wednesday 3rd March at 20 North Grove, Highgate. The recommended price is £8.50 (£4.50 for pensioners / claimants, children free).

darren (darren), Monday, 1 March 2004 18:43 (twenty years ago) link

I'm now off to John Ming to buy the new 'Time Out'.

darren (darren), Monday, 1 March 2004 18:45 (twenty years ago) link

Are there any other politicians with science fiction hero/villain names?

Daniel (dancity), Monday, 1 March 2004 18:57 (twenty years ago) link

one year passes...
"Are there fewer distinct vowel sounds in American English, do you think? For me, none of the following words rhyme: worry, furry, lorry, Corey, testicle."

Funny, trying to teach my Spanish English-teachers who have Britsh-tinged-Spanish-accents to pronounce words, I've decided that British English has fewer distinct vowel sounds. At least the "short" vowels: like the a in cat is a short vowel, or the i in bit.

But now that you mention it, all the vowels in combination with R are different for Brits, but not for Americans. We just say stuff differently.

allida, Friday, 20 January 2006 14:30 (eighteen years ago) link

two weeks pass...
Does anyone really say the word foyer as foy-er? I just heard this on tv (okay, it was Oprah), and I've probably heard it before (along with fillet - hard t rather than the correct fil-lay), but still. foy-ay. Usually I don't care all that much about these things, but this one seems particularly, er, backwards, uneducated (even if the speaker isn't).

rrrobyn (rrrobyn), Monday, 6 February 2006 22:06 (eighteen years ago) link

along with fillet - hard t rather than the correct fil-lay

But surely fillet is distinct from filet - the latter is meant to be pronounced as the French would, the former has been anglicised with the extra "l" to allow it to be pronounced, er, fillet.

ailsa (ailsa), Monday, 6 February 2006 22:14 (eighteen years ago) link

i say FOY-yur. i would automatically assume anyone pronouncing it FOY-YAY to be some kind of weirdo.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 6 February 2006 22:16 (eighteen years ago) link

I do, Robyn! Er, I think. My family home doesn't have a foyer so I probably didn't grow up with the word, and when I try to think what term comes easiest it's probably "entry" or "hall". So I've probably only gone over to "foyer" since arrival on East Coast. I will try to pay attention now and see who I hear using which pronunciation and see if I can find out how my impression of "foy-er" got that way.

Laurel (Laurel), Monday, 6 February 2006 22:20 (eighteen years ago) link

I say foy-ay. Though I seem to remember as a child being told that it was fwoy-ay. This seemed excessively complicated, so I ignored whoever it was that told me that (possibly my primary school teacher who also pronounced "film" as "fillum" and the like).

ailsa (ailsa), Monday, 6 February 2006 22:22 (eighteen years ago) link

haha, okay. (To be honest, even though I find it a bit backwards, I also find it cute, mostly b/c I have a newfound thing for the southern US accent.)
xposts!

ah, dictionary tells me: fillet and filet are both correct spellings but have essentially the same meanings, though the former can be pronounced both ways and the latter only the hard t way (yet the filet entry gives the example of filet mignon with the pronunciation of filay...). I suppose my issue is that these are French words whose pronunciation has been changed, yet there are other French words whose pronunciation stays the same. I just wonder about how arbitrary that change is, y'know, why it happens sometimes and not other times.

rrrobyn (rrrobyn), Monday, 6 February 2006 22:28 (eighteen years ago) link

I also love the grandness of foy-ay. "Just hang your coat in the foy-ay", e.g, when the foyer is hardly more than a windowed nook in the front hall.

rrrobyn (rrrobyn), Monday, 6 February 2006 22:30 (eighteen years ago) link

For some reason, in my mind "foy-ay" is up there with "vass" vs. vase and "aahnt" vs. aunt. I wonder why...

Laurel (Laurel), Monday, 6 February 2006 22:32 (eighteen years ago) link

i say foy-er. also, VESTIBULE.

having fun with stockholm cindy on stage (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 6 February 2006 22:32 (eighteen years ago) link

possibly my primary school teacher who also pronounced "film" as "fillum" and the like

POYM!

having fun with stockholm cindy on stage (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 6 February 2006 22:33 (eighteen years ago) link

And -- ha! -- we never use the front entrace at my parents' house, everyone comes and goes out the kitchen doors, so it's more like, "just throw your coat over a chair". My poor mother would kill for a proper mudroom.

Laurel (Laurel), Monday, 6 February 2006 22:34 (eighteen years ago) link

yeah laurel exactly - cuz it's all francy pantsy, they wouldn't know a mudroom if it bit 'em*

*neither would i, what in the hell are you talking about

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 6 February 2006 22:35 (eighteen years ago) link

See, as far as I'm concerned, foyer = entrance to theatre or somesuch. No foyer in my (or anyone else's) house.

It's VAHZ, Laurel (in this country anyway).

(xpost, JBR, my teachers insisted on PO-YIM! Or POME!)

ailsa (ailsa), Monday, 6 February 2006 22:35 (eighteen years ago) link

(I realise I'm outnumbered by Americans, and I didn't use THEATER!)

ailsa (ailsa), Monday, 6 February 2006 22:35 (eighteen years ago) link

VESTIBULE is great.
Yeah, I'm not with the aahnt and vass either. I say "vaaws" though or yeah, maybe vahz (but not "drawma.") But I'm guessing the -ay pronuncation is partly a Cdn thing, what with the French here, to have the French-like pronunciations predominate.
(haha, when I was looking up vase for the pronunciations, I came across the word "vaginismus" and laughed. -mus is just an inherently funny word ending, but when coupled with vaginis-, well, that's humour. sorry.)

rrrobyn (rrrobyn), Monday, 6 February 2006 22:41 (eighteen years ago) link

A mudroom? Oh gosh, an informal entry specifically for dirty people and dogs, to be used in wet weather or after gardening or for people coming in from working in the garage who might be greasy & etc. Floor that can be hosed/swabbed down, space for dirty work boots, and benches & hooks & cubbies for everyone's gear. As it is, the dirt we track in gets ground straight into her wooden floors.

XP: Robyn, do you do the flat "a" in drama and pasta? See, now that gives me a real shudder, but I think all the Canadians I knew (and loved) in college used both of them!

Laurel (Laurel), Monday, 6 February 2006 22:44 (eighteen years ago) link

I grew up saying "foy-ur" but sometimes we'd (my family) say "foy-ay" as a put-on -- sort of recognizing that that's how the word was originally meant to be pronounced but only snooty people actually say it like that anymore. Later, I realized that normal people said it sometimes, too, i.e., that it wasn't *quite* as snooty as I had originally imagined.

jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 6 February 2006 22:55 (eighteen years ago) link

hmm...my sister studied BBC English pronunciation at a pretentious drama school in UK and she insists "pasta" should more or less rhyme with "ass" and that "vase" should almost rhyme with "ace" but not quite.

but she sure as hell does say DRAHH-ma.

Thea (Thea), Monday, 6 February 2006 22:59 (eighteen years ago) link

An introductory course in German and the IPA have confused my pronunciation of English vowels. I seem to predict word stress incorrectly on a fairly regular basis.

youn, Monday, 6 February 2006 23:00 (eighteen years ago) link

No-one in the UK pronounces it as anything but vahz, do they? Someone? Anyone?

(Markelby to thread about pasta, obviously)

ailsa (ailsa), Monday, 6 February 2006 23:01 (eighteen years ago) link

oop (xpost) - I mean as in the yank way of pronouncing "ass" (god, confusing)

Thea (Thea), Monday, 6 February 2006 23:01 (eighteen years ago) link

(Markelby to thread about pasta, obviously)

Please no.

jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 6 February 2006 23:02 (eighteen years ago) link

I think we used mudroom too! But we actually had a mudroom, at the back door, in one house. or was it another word? I'm pretty sure it had "mud" in it... maybe? What other words are there for entrances?

I say drama/pasta in a way that I'm finding hard to write out phonetically. Yes, but I'm sure it's that flat a way b/c I know americans say it slightly differently. (This has kinda come up lately b/c I was watching online videos (from that roxy thread) and trying to figure out if the guys were Cdn, which I was sure they were - and was right! But in a lot of American tv, actors are trained to have a more neutral accent, so I don't get to hear it too much. haha, and then sometimes I watch Dr. Phil and THERE YA GO all over the place. Neat.)

One day, when I have a foyer, I'm going to become sooo snoooty about it.

rrrobyn (rrrobyn), Monday, 6 February 2006 23:05 (eighteen years ago) link

oh hey yeah, maybe drama does rhyme with ass.

rrrobyn (rrrobyn), Monday, 6 February 2006 23:09 (eighteen years ago) link

You are mental.

jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 6 February 2006 23:10 (eighteen years ago) link

I might agree, rrobyn!

Thea (Thea), Monday, 6 February 2006 23:14 (eighteen years ago) link

I mean dramamine, maybe, but not drama.

jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 6 February 2006 23:15 (eighteen years ago) link

certainly a lot of dramatic productions smell like it, but I digress

Thea (Thea), Monday, 6 February 2006 23:16 (eighteen years ago) link


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