TÁR, the cancel culture conversation piece of the year starring Cate Blanchett and Nina Hoss and directed by Todd Field

I guess I'm saying that it is kind of a red herring! But not completely unrelated to the broader revelations.

Another comparison to Östlund: https://boxd.it/3tcs3V

Maybe people genuinely, genuinely think this guy is the shit. But... I very much doubt this movie has a second and third life in the discourse cycle. It's disposable. TÁR was a little calculated for me but it's a high masterpiece next to Triangle of Sadness and I'm glad I saw them on consecutive days to be able to further appreciate what the Todd Field has to offer.

yes. and flops, one of the central points of that essay, and at least in my opinion one of the strengths of the film, is that the film allows us to render a fairly firm judgment despite deliberately leaving key pieces of information uncorroborated, at least literally speaking. I suppose field could have shown us scenes of krista prior to her death, or her parents confronting lydia in court, but would this really have added anything to the film? has anyone come across a review that genuinely seems to think lydia is innocent?

― k3vin k., Saturday, November 26, 2022 7:46 AM (five hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

ya idk i disagree. i felt see that the film is trying really hard to do the opposite, to keep the judgment ambiguous. from an interview with todd fields

The film is an examination of a downfall, recognition, and even potential rebuild of an artist abusing power that they’ve gained over time. How difficult was it to create a balance on this issue without tilting your hand to one side or the other when making it? And do you think the audience should remain neutral when looking at Lydia and her actions?

TF: I think the audience has to do what the audience wants to do. We built this thing for a very particular purpose. We built this thing so that there was the ability to ask questions about her behavior and to have a real stake in your feelings about it, whether you judged her one way or the other, or maybe you changed your mind about her, or…

When Monika Willi and I were editing, we were out in the middle of nowhere working seven-day weeks, and when we would watch the film down, at different points, we would always turn to each other and say the same thing. It was, “How did you feel about her today?” And sometimes those feelings would be very contradictory from the previous viewing. So, it wasn’t like… We really tried to approach it, if I can be so bold as to say, in a humble way, which is that we weren’t trying to draw any lines about… We weren’t looking for outcome, we weren’t looking to do equational narrative. We were looking for as much possibility of interpretation as possible. Not to be intentionally vague or obscure or anything like that, just that all of it was available, and there’s no wrong answer, you know?

the real controversy is not about whether lydia tár is abusive, a bad person, cancel-worthy, etc., but whether she is a real person

I really don’t think that quote contradicts anything that I or others have been saying! but I will concede that the film takes on a hot-button topic in an unconventional, decidedly non-didactic way, and that it is not gonna please everyone!

I finally watched this and I loved it so goddamn much.

the real controversy is not about whether lydia tár is abusive, a bad person, cancel-worthy, etc., but whether she is a real person

― flopson, Saturday, November 26, 2022 2:14 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

I felt like the first moment of this movie, Adam Gopnik’s introduction, made it very clear that this was an entirely fantastical character. It felt similar to a buildup in a horror movie. Do people really believe a person like this could exist? Should they have gone even further and had her conduct the first symphony from space or something?

i knew it was fiction going in but the friend i watched it with who went in completely blind asked me "wait, so is she not a real person?" after we saw it. it's also become a bit of a meme https://www.thecut.com/2022/10/lydia-tar-is-not-real.html

xp k3v- one of the things i like about it is that a reaction like mine (fawning over tar) and mark s's (rooting for her downfall) are both possible. as you said "the film allows us to render a fairly firm judgment despite deliberately leaving key pieces of information uncorroborated", but imo the same limited information also allows you to not

I had no idea that the last moment was anything other than a fantasy (not knowing what she was conducting or why the audience looked that way), until reading up on it afterwards.

The scene where she tries to follow the cellist home also felt unreal, so now I want to see the whole movie again from the point of view that she wasn't falling into some hallucinatory madness.

Also would like to watch this as a double feature with Black Swan.

asking "do people really believe a person like this could exist?" but pointing crossly towards adam gopnik

I loved this. odd reactions as expected up above from those who didn't actually watch the film. the film does a good job making it clear that she was an abuser without having to get explicit (ie: there is no doubt that she should not have done whatever it is she did to Krista, even though it's also somewhat apparent Krista was not a stable person). The surreal elements were well done, and really recalled Eyes Wide Shut to me, and I'd honestly forgotten who Todd Field was!

i knew it was fiction going in but the friend i watched it with who went in completely blind asked me "wait, so is she not a real person?" after we saw it. it's also become a bit of a meme https://www.thecut.com/2022/10/lydia-tar-is-not-real.html

― flopson, Saturday, November 26, 2022 5:45 PM (one week ago) bookmarkflaglink

I know that Lydia Tar is fictional, but she doesn't do anything that hasn't been done in real life by 1) a male conductor or 2) a male film director. (With the likely exception of a conductor tackling the second, in front of an audience.)

The Juilliard student is a strawman (strawperson?), but his dialogue is rooted in discourse I've seen elsewhere, challenging the canon and who decides what is canonical. I didn't see Whiplash, but in that I understand the cruel teacher is supposed to be the hero for expecting no less than 115% from the student?

Hmm: https://slate.com/culture/2022/12/tar-cate-blanchett-movie-ending-explained-analyzed.html

Maybe?

That sounds like a more interesting movie than the one I'd been reading about until now. Might need to rent it from Amazon.

that's how I watched it last month

that's the first piece i've seen that grapples with that aspect of the movie in even a remotely satisfactory way.

Honestly, I buy it and I never would’ve thought Todd Field capable of even a modestly successful stylistic flourish until tecently

Enjoyed that essay. Definitely agree that a lot of the elements identified feel like they intentionally don't add up or can't be resolved in the mode of a realistic what-you-see-is-what-happened-to-the-characters narrative.

i hadn't noticed the shots with lydia lurking in the background when i watched this but yikes--they're scary!

https://compote.slate.com/images/03911a57-319b-4a5a-8f71-1c02d2e3858f.gif?crop=538%2C358%2Cx0%2Cy0&width=1600

Honestly, I buy it and I never would’ve thought Todd Field capable of even a modestly successful stylistic flourish until tecently

― عباس کیارستمی (Eric H.), Thursday, December 8, 2022 9:14 PM (twenty-eight minutes

Hence my rechristening him.

"it's mostly supernatural" also neatly accounts for Mark Strong's astounding hair

strong's agent his written "terrible syrups whenever possible" into all his contracts for years

also relevant:

Leonard Bernstein getting frustrated. pic.twitter.com/QVZ20t6qUL

— composers doing normal shit (@NormalComposers) December 9, 2022

i don't really buy the supernatural element as a full-on "explanation" of the last chunk of the movie but i appreciate it as another wrinkle. it definitely did not occur to me at all.

didn't occur to me while watching the movie, that is

theres certainly more going on than what initially meets the eye, but "supernatural" is not a word i would introduce into the conversation

how about "weird"

this film is much weirder than it initially seems, and weirder than most people realize, I think

especially if you add, "and it's by the guy who made In the Bedroom."

i mean it's repulsion if deneuve was playing a lady that could impress adam fkn gopnik, the more that was going on was only not initially meeting the eye if u like dozed off

i read it more as funny than spooky bcz the various horror interludes were very extra w/o being very effective (as horror), but i very much enjoyed the ending (seems like he's better at funny, and cate is v funny too)

this film is much weirder than it initially seems, and weirder than most people realize, I think

this was my feeling after seeing it (not that I have it figured out), and I was frustrated trying to find reviews that had a handle on it.

i read it more as funny than spooky bcz the various horror interludes were very extra w/o being very effective (as horror), but i very much enjoyed the ending (seems like he's better at funny, and cate is v funny too)

agree with this too! though was expecting something more...cathartic, as it approached the end but the way it did go was really funny/weird/interesting.

the rather oblique reference to Apocalypse Now (I think...) in the final section is really suggestive too.

Yeah, I love how thrown-away that line was

i think i’m TÁR-pilled. great movie

— b-boy bouiebaisse (@jbouie) December 10, 2022

the smarts are liking this movie

https://thefilmstage.com/the-tar-cinematic-universe-will-expand-with-new-short-film-by-todd-field/

Jár pic.twitter.com/McXnTh1IRq

— Joe Whitt (@joeobligations) December 19, 2022

wtf at that Slate piece
I felt the film could easily have been written for a male lead by the way, I can imagine a production meeting with someone saying “hey, hey, but what if Cate Blanchett??!??”

oh https://www.avclub.com/cate-blanchett-says-tar-role-originally-meant-for-a-man-1849872103

Been thinking about this quite a bit after watching it last night. The whole cast was stellar but Blanchett was knocking it out of the park. Definitely read as a sort of surrealist comedy/horror film to me; the Slate piece was striving a bit more to connect all the dots than is necessary, but all those dots are very much there. lots of ari aster vibes without the easy sadism.

tons of visual echoes: the black dog in the passageway followed by her child on all fours followed by the piano. All challenges she won't be able to overcome. If you were looking for a mini-trend piece, you could do worse than one about post-COVID imposter syndrome media, beginning here and looping in Fleischman is In Trouble.

i appreciate how entirely open to interpretation this movie is and how much it forces the viewer to work to meet it. I got in an argument a couple of nights back with a buddy who, after extolling his love for White Lotus and Triangle of Sadness and having to listen to me go on about how facile and hypocritical those pieces are, accused me of not liking satire. What i don't like is EASY satire.

Having known a few Tár-types, the verisimilitude of the hyper-erudite patter was uncanny. i am gonna have to be careful who i talk to about this irl.

Confused by that Blanchett comment bc I heard an interview with Todd Field in which he said he wrote the movie with Blanchett in mind and wouldn't have made it if she hadn't said yes.

my partner, who is a Bernstein nerd, immediately tracked Tar's beat pattern as his.

feel like a big key to the character is her rough and tumble roots. strivers know that the system must be gamed and even when we know the rules are shifting and can hear the trap closing, we are certain we'll dodge yet again. the cry in the woods while running, the metronome speeding. as a fellow sound-sensitive genius with a shoulder problem who gets up in the middle of the night to listen to the walls to see where that noise is coming from, i felt very targeted.

xpost

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2022/12/todd-field-interview-tar-theories-lyrida-egot-awards-insider

Vanity Fair: Let’s start with Lydia Tár because, when you look at social media, everyone is talking about her almost like she’s a real person. Everyone loves to analyze her. How did this character first take shape for you?

Todd Field: She kind of appeared about 10 years ago to me. I understand, in a fashion, why people do think that she’s real because she’s very real to me and has been for a long time. I wasn’t sure that I would ever be able to sort of share her with anyone because everything that I’ve been adapting for however many years has been based on underlying material, where the characters have been imagined by others. But here she is.

Vanity Fair: I was reading over the screenplay and I noticed this opening note that you put in there: “Based on the script’s page count, it would be reasonable to assume that the total running time for Tár would be well under two hours. However, this will not be a reasonable film.” And then you go on to say, “if you are mad enough to greenlight this film, be prepared for one whose necessary length represents these practical accommodations.” It sounds like you really led with the fact that you needed to have the freedom to make the story you wanted to tell. Was that ever met with any resistance?

Todd Field: Strangely, no. And I didn’t receive one script note. And as that note says, “if you’re mad enough to greenlight this film”—I’m still sort of scratching my head that, [chairman of Focus Features] Peter Kujawski and [president of production and acquisitions] Kiska Higgs were mad enough to greenlight this film and ultimately [Universal Filmed Entertainment Group chairman] Donna Langley and [NBCUniversal vice chairman] Jimmy Horowitz because who on earth would ever greenlight this film? [Laughs.]

Vanity Fair: You wrote the script for Cate Blanchett. Did it require you to chase her down in any way to get her to sign on, and would you have made this if she passed?

Todd Field: No, I wouldn’t have made it if she passed. I tried to be respectful and transparent with the studio, but the one thing that I lied about when I handed it in was immediately Kiska Higgs and Peter Kujawski said, “you must have someone in mind for this role?” And I said, “No, I have no idea.” Because I was terrified that somebody might make a call or whatever and spook her, you know? So I kind of didn’t do anything for about a month. And then my wife kind of kicked me under the table and said, “you need to quit being so sheepish. You need to call her.” And I did, and she said yes immediately. That was surprising because I think it’s a very dangerous character. I don’t think it wasn’t a sure thing. There was all kinds of reasons why she may have said no, but that speaks to who she is as an artist that she said yes.

my partner, who is a Bernstein nerd, immediately tracked Tar's beat pattern as his

Probably my favorite moment in the whole movie is when she greets by name the composer coming thru her alarm clock radio

Funniest movie moment of 2022. #Tar pic.twitter.com/jvB61ht8j4

— Ken Jones (@KenJones81) November 19, 2022

Even funnier when they include a credit for that song in the closing credits reel

lol, i was literally typing that as an xpost!

Still blows me away that Todd Field wrote himself the most original American script of the year.

And that he directed a well-directed movie

Todd Field did his Daniel Plainview movie. How you feel? Results may vary!

There is no right reaction to this movie, it contains multitudes. As funny as you want, as serious as you want.

PS I’m in Berlin this past week and this movie keeps popping onto my head. I even went to the Philharmonic twice!

This movie was very funny in parts. I think it's hard to believe Olga didn't know how Tar messed her face up, which makes all the scenes afterwards with the two of them in vry funny. Tar telling the kid "she was going to get them" or whatever. Lots of great laughs in this

who'll bear the pall?

i'll-- we'll bear the pall.

furiously hitting the punching bag to the rhythm of eine kleine nachtmusik

I can't help but wonder if, during his six years spent learning how to mimic Bernstein conducting one single snippet of music, Bradley Cooper happened to catch Cate Blanchett besting him while not even breaking a sweat

Yeah she was very convincing. Cooper was not conducting, he was swatting at flying elves.

Would watch Blanchett as Bernstein.

Really, I'm Right Here

he was swatting at flying elves

I appreciate this deep cut.