Search And Destroy: Belle And Sebastian

every codger get together becomes this eventually

They have an official Complete Belle and Sebastian playlist that contains every album, in reverse chronological order.

R.I.P. Seymour Stein, incidentally.

He won't be coming to dinner.

But he will be at the after party.

New track out, collaboration with Suki Waterhouse. It’s… not good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYoqECwdh48

Belle and Sebastian news tends to be posted with greater delay these days, even though this message board in large part goes back to the B&S fan community. Is that a sign that we’re all starting to lose interest in this band?

yeah she isn't a good fit and it's not much more than a failed sketch of a song.

mostly these days I'm just glad I don't have to keep reshuffling my 2CD best of B&S tracklisting.

Actually I heard this song last week on Release Radar and my ears pricked up – was quite excited to find it was by them. I think her voice works well and it's the best song of theirs I've heard since Fickle Season (possibly I've missed an album, reinforcing Melomane's point)

I find 'When the Cynics Stare Back from the Wall' from the last LP weirdly affecting.

what's not to like abt the Suki Waterhouse collab? nice little song

the sgt peppers bridge is fun

I return to HOW TO SOLVE OUR HUMAN PROBLEMS after 5 years.

I admire the boldness of starting with 'sweet dew lee', but Jackson's vocals are so dire, so wonky, that it makes a poor start. Then Murdoch comes in and sings better on a bridge, and Jackson's verse never returns. A mysterious structure.

'we were beautiful' seems one of the most substantial and original late B&S songs.

'fickle season' - I didn't know it was called this - is sung atrociously, again, by Martin. 20 + years in and long-term members are ruining songs with poor vocals!

I am thus now surprised to see Alba, above, say that 'fickle season' was the last best B&S song.

Do you think you would like the song if the vocals were different, pinefox?

It's a good question, Alba.

The song doesn't seem appealing to me anyway. But it does at least have a melody.

One thing I noticed this time was how much the flute (?) instrumental near the end sounded like something from FOLD YOUR HANDS (maybe 'family tree'). For a while I was thinking 'this is like early B&S', then remembered that FOLD YOUR HANDS isn't really early B&S, except that numerically it is.

I still haven't heard a note of LATE DEVELOPERS!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Developers

I played 'fickle season' again. No, I don't find this song appealing in any way.

'the girl doesn't get it' brings more energy but is soon let down by its children's TV theme sound and its lazy liberal-populist lyrics.

Instrumental 'everything is now' seems pointless. Maybe the later version cashes in the idea more.

So from this first set of 5 songs I only really find one success.

On to ep 2:

'show me the sun' starts dreadfully with Jackson and Murdoch singing 'na-na-nah' - an unpleasant sound. The song then becomes maybe a 1970s rock pastiche, which I mostly don't like though it does, again, have a tune.

'same star' is sung by the, to me, not convincing singer Martin, but is better - more poise, rhythm, structure.

'I'll be your pilot' seems the obvious high point of ep 2, with its woodwind hook and succulent sound, though 'I see you sleep / it's amazingly sweet' is too direct for my taste.

'cornflakes' then brings us back Jackson singing even worse than before - a new low.

I have an idea that track 10 is better and redeems things for a while.

I like this review, esp:

'show me the sun' starts dreadfully with Jackson and Murdoch singing 'na-na-nah' - an unpleasant sound.

I like Sweet Dew Lee.

Thank you Alba. I'm glad.

I finished listening to the whole LP and will report back.

Returning to this CD:

I re-emphasise how bad 'cornflakes' is. Poster Alba will remember a time when we would wonder if, say, 'beyond the sunrise' or 'family tree' was the worst B&S song. 'cornflakes' seems on a mission to win this category, to put all other bad songs in perspective by creating a uniquely bad work. The chords, the melody, the lyric, the vocal. Hard to see that it should have been released.

'a plague on other boys' flips this mood by being more serious and one of the best songs on the LP. It has a proper melody, a notable shift from major to minor chords (say D to Dm) as its main verse schtick, and a detailed lyric. Supposedly about a youth in Nebraska, it rather reminds me of songs I used to write, about people and places I didn't know and tried to sketch together. The lyrics go into liberal populism again; I don't think it wears very well. The coda is unusual in presenting a perspective from 10 years later. In this period it's quite good B&S and a good effort at some slightly different things.

This leaves the 3rd ep which starts with 'poor boy'. This is an attempt at funk or soul. I keep thinking that the idea of B&S playing meloiduc funk or soul music is good, but the reality keeps falling quite flat.

'everything is now (part II)' - still not convinced.

'too many tears' - this has one of those sultry guest star ladies that they sometimes do. It's better than most of the LP, especially with the strongly melodic chorus (?) that she starts by singing.

'there is an everlasting song' - feeling double-tracked or chorus-FX'd, this is roughly in Simon & Garfunkel mode. I come to realise it's relatively a highlight.

'best friend': this gains some power from being the last song but I also think it may be the best on the whole LP. Feels a proper pop song, with another guest star lady, slick music, lyrics that sound aimed at a romcom.

The LP ends at a relatively high standard!

I saw Belle & Sebastian last night. They played very well except that at the encore they spent time deliberating over what to play when they could have played another song, then just played 'lazy line painter Jane' which was predictable enough anyway.

'Seymour Stein' was a highlight. Though I knock Jackson's vocals and songwriting, his guitar playing was actually diverse and resplendent.

Martin seemed to do less than usual.

I like Family Tree. I can't remember now if I liked it back then or not, of if I knew it was written by Stuart, not Isobel (have I dreamed that?). Beyond the Sunrise is not good.

Returning to this CD: I re-emphasise how bad 'cornflakes' is. Poster Alba will remember a time when we would wonder if, say, 'beyond the sunrise' or 'family tree' was the worst B&S song.

Those were the days, when "beyond the sunrise" could be considered the low point.
They do a live summer-of-love version that moves that song way up in the rankings.

Heck, you're right - the sound, especially the Harrison / McGuinn guitar attack on this, is transformative. Incredible way to lift that song while completely maintaining its integrity.

Alba, I like 'family tree', always have done. In April 2000 I believe lots of us (not least you) were exercised by such questions of authorship and what they meant for Campbell or Murdoch's view of her schtick.

I maintain that while both these songs may have disappointed some in 2000, 'cornflakes' is something else.

bewildered that anyone could think family tree isn't a highlight of fyhp...

or is no one actually suggesting that? apologies

Did Murdoch transcend his frequently enough to warrant a different critical reception?

His what?

devvine, my sense would be that most people now who like B&S would look favourably on most of that LP. I don't think 'family tree' is exactly among the top 3 songs on the LP, but it's still more likeable than much of the last 30 years' output.

A friend once told me that Family Tree reminded him of the meow mix commercial and I have been unable to take it seriously ever since.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTunhRVyREU

I'm someone who thought "Family Tree" was probably the worst B&S song at the time, and I still don't like it. I was shocked to see that it won the FYHCYWLAP poll!

This is the commercial it reminds me of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_PEz40gTDc

That live version of "Beyond the Sunrise" is cool. Never really had a problem with the album version though.

Agree with the posts upthread that “Cornflakes” is not good. I’ve not really gone back to ‘How to Solve…’. There were tracks I liked on it, I remember that.

I've been thinking about 'family tree', without actually playing it, and I think: this is a very well constructed song.

The vocal could have been better but then again maybe it needed this inept vocal. Unsure.

there are at least three tracks worse than "Beyond The Sunrise" and "Family Tree" on FYHCYWLAP

I mean it has "The Wrong Girl" which has to be one of my least favourite songs by anyone.

It's probably one of Jackson's best songs!

Looking at the tracklist on that poll thread, I think a) can't believe 'family tree' won, b) overall standard of that LP is high.

Are any of Jackson's songs actually....good?

Isn’t “The Wrong Girl” a Stevie song? I don’t mind that one. “Perfect Couples” isn’t bad, either. Still, I see B&S as Murdoch’s band, and its decline runs parallel with Murdoch’s retreat from Glasgow’s hipster community into staid domestic stability.

Are any of Jackson's songs actually....good?

― bain4z, Wednesday, July 19, 2023 3:13 PM (twenty-three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

to name 3 and 1/2:

to be myself completely, seymour stein, roy walker, half of step into my office baby

Legal Man and Jonathan David are quite guid.

Agree with devvine, and re 'Jonathan David'.

Also 'chick factor' quite possibly Jackson's best song of all.

I confirm my view that the best of HUMAN PROBLEMS is

Best Friends
We Were Beautiful
Too Many Tears
A Plague On Other Boys
I'll Be Your Pilot

I'm fond of 'The Wrong Girl' without loving it. I think the arrangements are the best thing about it - something true of what is, overall, a pretty ordinary album.

Love:
Too Much Love
The Model
Women's Realm

Like:
The Wrong Girl
I Fought in A War
Don't Leave the Light On
The Chalet Lines

Eh:
The rest

As for Stevie songs, I'd put 'Seymour Stein' in the top tier and also like 'Chickfactor' and 'Jonathan David'.

these are all top 30 b&s:

Woman's Realm
Family Tree
There's Too Much Love
I Fought In A War
The Model
Don't Leave The Light On, Baby

I find the out of tune intro to The Wrong Girl just makes me immediately skip.

Only top 30 B&S track on the LP for me is Woman's Realm, and even that's not top 20.

Don't like Women's Realm much - bit of a plodding indie-disco retread of past glories

Top tier:
I Fought in a War
The Model
Waiting for the Moon to Rise
Don't Leave the Light on Baby
There's Too Much Love

Lovely
Family Tree

OK
The Wrong Girl
Nice Day for a Sulk
Women's Realm

No thanks
Beyond the Sunrise
The Chalet Lines

Agree with Alba! Good calls, Alba.

But this is the 4th B&S LP, from 23 years ago - basically it's very good.

Finding the gold on HUMAN PROBLEMS - that's harder.

A top 10 B&S since, what ... 2010? That would be a tougher task. There is a fair amount of good material but it's scattered around and lots of us haven't even heard every song.

Human Problems is probably their weakest release so far, it's true. But Play For Today and I Didn't See It Coming are both top tier tracks for me, and both are post 2010 (well IDSIC is 2020 but that counts surely?)