Hasn’t it, like “Cold Turkey” before it, been slipping off the charts for a while now?
― Me and the Major on the Moon (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 9 November 2022 01:47 (one year ago) link
I think The Searchers will be lucky to make the top 25. If it were only Americans voting, likely even lower.
― ex-McKinsey wonk who looks like a human version of a rat (Eric H.), Wednesday, 9 November 2022 02:21 (one year ago) link
Man with a Movie Camera had an unusually high placement in 2012, at #8. It's at #70 in 2002 and #44 in 1992. Guessing that'll drop.
― jmm, Wednesday, 9 November 2022 02:51 (one year ago) link
Shooting from beyond half-court: Mulholland Drive will be #1.
― Chris L, Wednesday, 9 November 2022 03:02 (one year ago) link
That’s been my outside bet for a while. But 2032 more likely.
― Alba, Wednesday, 9 November 2022 09:03 (one year ago) link
So is it challops or something to still like The Searchers or okay just as long as you don’t rate it higher than, say, Speed Racer?
― Me and the Major on the Moon (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 9 November 2022 09:55 (one year ago) link
xxp Mulholland was my first thought too, tbh
― nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Wednesday, 9 November 2022 12:59 (one year ago) link
this hadn't occurred to me before, but seeing it juxtaposed with The Searchers, it's interesting that Speed Racer seems to have evaded being accused of whitewashing its source material
― rob, Wednesday, 9 November 2022 13:20 (one year ago) link
The Searchers is very much underrated in this era, you don't have to be Morbs to feel that way
― ex-McKinsey wonk who looks like a human version of a rat (Eric H.), Wednesday, 9 November 2022 15:19 (one year ago) link
I agree, and I'm not much of a fan.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 9 November 2022 15:28 (one year ago) link
With The Searchers out of the way, Ford is going to enjoy the Bunuel conundrum in these all-time roundups -- too many contenders, with none clearly out in front
― ex-McKinsey wonk who looks like a human version of a rat (Eric H.), Wednesday, 9 November 2022 15:45 (one year ago) link
The GodfatherRaging BullL’AtalanteNosferatuThe SwimmerBlue VelvetCity LightsNo Country for Old MenSunrise — A Song of Two HumansPlaytime
― TO BE A JAZZ SINGER YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SCAT (Jazzbo), Wednesday, 9 November 2022 15:51 (one year ago) link
For The Searchers to succeed on the level of its ambitions, you need spectators that see Wayne as a mythic figure, and I don't know if enough of those people exist to rank it highly in 2022.
― Halfway there but for you, Wednesday, 9 November 2022 16:04 (one year ago) link
the Bunuel conundrum in these all-time roundups -- too many contenders, with none clearly out in front
Mexican Bus Ride the surprise #1!!
― Halfway there but for you, Wednesday, 9 November 2022 16:06 (one year ago) link
Why do people think The Searchers is going to fall out of the Top 10? It moved into the Top 10 last poll. The film's politics? They've always been there--I don't think you're supposed to admire the Wayne character. (When it was made, I suppose, but the film is adaptable to time; you can see the character's deranged racism today, and the character is more complicated as time goes on.)
― clemenza, Wednesday, 9 November 2022 16:08 (one year ago) link
xp absolutely spot-on observation, Halfway
― ex-McKinsey wonk who looks like a human version of a rat (Eric H.), Wednesday, 9 November 2022 16:11 (one year ago) link
(the first post, not the second) (I've seen Mexican Bus Ride)
― ex-McKinsey wonk who looks like a human version of a rat (Eric H.), Wednesday, 9 November 2022 16:22 (one year ago) link
I feel like The Searchers is an ur-text for a generation of filmmakers (Scorsese, Schrader, Lucas) that don't have quite the currency that they used to--or at least, aren't as central to film culture as they were a few decades ago. If the film drops in the poll, I think (or at least I'd like to think) that, and not the film's easily-misread racial politics, would be the reason why. That said, I know next to nothing about the demographics of the voters here; still, I'd be very surprised if The Searchers ever topped the poll.
― Les hommes de bonbons (cryptosicko), Wednesday, 9 November 2022 17:19 (one year ago) link
(basically, what Halfway said)
― Les hommes de bonbons (cryptosicko), Wednesday, 9 November 2022 17:20 (one year ago) link
Yes Halfway OTM about the diminishing of Wayne's mythic status. Even in the last ten years, the horrors of the Wayne Playboy interview have been revisited for a new generation of filmists on Twitter etc.
― Ward Fowler, Wednesday, 9 November 2022 17:30 (one year ago) link
I'd genuinely welcome Liberty Valence suddenly vaulting into the top 10
― ex-McKinsey wonk who looks like a human version of a rat (Eric H.), Wednesday, 9 November 2022 17:43 (one year ago) link
I've been trying to watch John Ford's films again, in order. There are so many of them, including charming silents like Just Pals and The Iron Horse, as well as many others I had never seen before. I've had to skip a lot of them because of access but so far I'm up through Fort Apache (1948).
I still haven't seen Liberty Valance
― Dan S, Thursday, 10 November 2022 00:28 (one year ago) link
I like Liberty Valence, but--unlike The Searchers--it's not much to look at, and there's probably just as much cornball stuff in one as the other.
― clemenza, Thursday, 10 November 2022 01:02 (one year ago) link
I've always found The Searchers very, very far from Ford's best, given that My Darling Clementine, Rio Bravo, She Wore a Yellow Ribbon exist.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 10 November 2022 01:09 (one year ago) link
er, Rio Grande.
Rio Bravo is Howard Hawks, but I assume that most people here know that, and yes, I see that you corrected yourself,
― Me and the Major on the Moon (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 10 November 2022 01:16 (one year ago) link
More understandable than if you'd typed in Blame It on Rio.
― clemenza, Thursday, 10 November 2022 01:20 (one year ago) link
OMG
― Me and the Major on the Moon (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 10 November 2022 01:20 (one year ago) link
I don't know about top ten, but I would not be surprised if "Jeanne Dielman...", "In the Mood for Love" and "Mulholland Dr." all break the top 20 in the critics' poll this time. My guess for #1 on the critics' poll would be "Tokyo Story" (which actually was #1 in the 2012 directors' poll). I noticed it was the only Asian film in the top 10 (top 14, actually) for both polls in 2012.
I'm sure someone has crunched the numbers, but I wonder if my hunch is correct that the vast majority of voters limit one film per director on their lists, which might help boost "Tokyo Story" (Ozu's "Late Spring" was his 2nd highest ranking, #15 on the critics' poll but not even in the top 100 of the directors' poll.) as the Ozu frontrunner. Whereas a director like, say, Coppola has both "The Godfather" (#7 for directors) and "Apocalypse Now" (#6 for directors) in the mix.
I'm poring over this page, btw:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sight_%26_Sound_Greatest_Films_of_All_Time_2012
― ernestp, Thursday, 10 November 2022 02:02 (one year ago) link
I think Jeanne Dielman, 23 quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles, In the Mood for Love, and Mulholland Drive could all end up in the top 20 if not the top 10, and Apocalypse Now is going to continue to outpace The Godfather films in the ranking
― Dan S, Thursday, 10 November 2022 02:25 (one year ago) link
I wonder how the silent film canon will fair. I get the feeling that Buster Keaton’s stock has risen in past ten years, so wouldn’t be surprised if ‘The General’ or ‘One Week’, did much better this time.
― Dan Worsley, Thursday, 10 November 2022 13:28 (one year ago) link
Jeanne Dielman's appearance in the poll last time surely an effect of it finally getting a dece home video release from Criterion; before that it was very difficult to see at all. I think many of the new arrivals this time round will also be tied to new physical media restorations.
― Ward Fowler, Thursday, 10 November 2022 14:07 (one year ago) link
I could see The General taking a hit for centering the Confederate army. Sherlock Jr might be easier to get behind.
― jmm, Thursday, 10 November 2022 14:18 (one year ago) link
I disagree on both points. It is very much something to look at tho not as much in the buttes department, and modern viewers' main beef with The Searchers isn't, in general, that it's "cornball."
― ex-McKinsey wonk who looks like a human version of a rat (Eric H.), Thursday, 10 November 2022 15:11 (one year ago) link
Apocalypse Now is going to continue to outpace The Godfather films in the ranking
So long as S&S continues to force Godfather fans to pick one or the other or use two of their votes ... which, to be clear, they should continue to be forced to do
― ex-McKinsey wonk who looks like a human version of a rat (Eric H.), Thursday, 10 November 2022 15:13 (one year ago) link
This is possible ... Sherlock Jr. sure fits nicely into the navel-gazing era Owen G. was railing about 10 years ago.
― ex-McKinsey wonk who looks like a human version of a rat (Eric H.), Thursday, 10 November 2022 15:15 (one year ago) link
Maybe I am a late bloomer or something but Liberty Valance and The Searchers have only gotten better for me over the years. Tbh, it took me a long while to get the second one in the first place.
― Me and the Major on the Moon (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 10 November 2022 15:49 (one year ago) link
Yeah, as I mentioned above, my regard for The Searchers now vs. when I was exposed to it in college are two very different things
― ex-McKinsey wonk who looks like a human version of a rat (Eric H.), Thursday, 10 November 2022 15:52 (one year ago) link
Isn't Liberty Valence even more invested in that kind of myth-making--not just Wayne, but also Stewart and Ford--especially coming as it does at the very end of that period in American film? Both films undermine the very thing they eulogize (Liberty Valence even more so, yes), but they seem similar to me.
― clemenza, Thursday, 10 November 2022 18:30 (one year ago) link
The Searchers needs Wayne to have some of the heroic aura of his other roles from the start, so there's a tension between "heroism" and "racism"; if viewers start out by saying, "of course he's racist, what do you expect?", they're not going to be on board.Liberty Valence, as you suggest, says "print the legend" but does the opposite.
― Halfway there but for you, Thursday, 10 November 2022 19:09 (one year ago) link
I've been expecting Persona to take a tumble at some point, and it has dropped out of the Top 10 since the '72 poll, the first one I was aware of (a few years later). I don't want it to--the excitement of discovering the poll and seeing Persona for the first time soon after are synonymous for me--but I think it will.
― clemenza, Thursday, 10 November 2022 22:11 (one year ago) link
yes, also I'm wondering if 8 1/2 will fall out of the top 10 and if Fellini's other films will also fade
― Dan S, Friday, 11 November 2022 00:19 (one year ago) link
I’d be fine with that
― ex-McKinsey wonk who looks like a human version of a rat (Eric H.), Friday, 11 November 2022 00:52 (one year ago) link
Maybe the ILX Film Poll will be a bellwether and Fellini won't make the top 100
― Josefa, Friday, 11 November 2022 01:08 (one year ago) link
Fellini reminds me of my early days of film enthusiasm, and his films are so bound up with my young adult yearnings. He was super straight, and male straightness was a focus of his, but he also I think understood sexuality on a deeper level and made it seem like a kind of mask.
I think Godard was similar in that sense, he is one of the straightest ever directors but was also totally queer
― Dan S, Friday, 11 November 2022 01:43 (one year ago) link
although I think Godard was much less sexual than Fellini
― Dan S, Friday, 11 November 2022 01:46 (one year ago) link
Y’all haven’t seen the recent Mexican take on 8 1/2 yet, have you.
― Me and the Major on the Moon (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 11 November 2022 02:01 (one year ago) link
It baffles me that Apocalypse Now places ahead--well ahead--of The Conversation.
― clemenza, Friday, 11 November 2022 21:24 (one year ago) link
Just not a player, really:
https://www2.bfi.org.uk/films-tv-people/4ce2b6a7ea9b8/sightandsoundpoll2012
― ex-McKinsey wonk who looks like a human version of a rat (Eric H.), Friday, 11 November 2022 21:30 (one year ago) link
(OK, I take that back ... 183rd isn't bad.)
― ex-McKinsey wonk who looks like a human version of a rat (Eric H.), Friday, 11 November 2022 21:31 (one year ago) link