Meditation people roll call!

I talk through a little chat box pretty much every day.

Wow, nice. I would love a setup like that. For a while it didn't feel like there was much point in talking to a teacher frequently, but now that there seems to be some movement in my practice I'm more interested.

Excuse my rambling post about The Snow Leopard!

I've been thinking about the 'conceptual overlay' and 'experiential alienation' stuff a LOT and am amazed at how a minor shift in thinking can open up new places from which to observe one's thought processes.

yup

*bump* to tell Chinaski that this practice can definitely help with some memory issues.

I have a few things to say about but can’t type any of them for the nonce.

Slightly alarmed by who 'the nonce' might be...

I'm sure it's purely coincidental but my memory issues have definitely increased since I've been meditating more! Very keen to hear of any ideas you have, James. Thanks for the heads-up on the other thread.

I've been trying meditation, and the only problem is that it seems to be working at cross-purposes with what I want in my life. My mind is empty enough already, and I don't want to empty it any further. I also want to stop being as self-aware and self-focused as I am and start focusing on other people. I'm also way too calm and accepting of the way my life has gone.

Apologies for the unsolicited advice. I'm always wary of over-generalizing from my own experience. But this is how meditation has been helpful for me, as someone else who is often self-focused.

Meditation isn't about emptying your mind. It is about becoming more aware of what's happening internally that's guiding your habitual behaviors - making the unconscious conscious. It should help with being able to focus on what's appropriate for you to focus on in a given moment, whether that's something internal or something external.

More than once I have misinterpreted meditation instructions to recommend quietism or passivity in daily life. That's not the case - it should help you see situations more clearly, and sometimes that will mean taking action.

It isn't a quick fix for any of these things, but one thing it also helps with is letting go of the idea that you need to radically change yourself. That's not to say you can't take action to make changes in your life! But that's different.

meditating with music on headphones I find is good too though I guess it could be called something other than meditating

meditate (v.)
1580s, "to ponder, think abstractly, engage in mental contemplation" (intransitive), probably a back-formation from meditation, or else from Latin meditatus, past participle of meditari "to meditate, think over, reflect, consider," frequentative form of PIE root *med- "take appropriate measures." From 1590s as "to plan in the mind," also "to employ the mind in thought or contemplation," especially in a religious way. Related: Meditated; meditating.

I might have to try this, because focusing on my breathing causes it to stop.

like chose an album that is a good solid 45 min of mind blowing fab music and lay down with the best headphones you have

Not meditation exactly but I've been enjoying noticing how my mind can be ping-ponging around while my body is just calmly doing something.

It’s definitely related.

I'm currently meditating every other day and have the dazzling insight that *something* is happening, I'm just not sure what it is (Mr Jones).

I'm reading Mark Epstein's *Thoughts Without A Thinker* which is the first text I've read that really lays out the process and purpose of meditating. Not so much how to integrate practise into everyday life but that's something I'm working out myself. I need a teacher. I'm just waiting for them to appear.

I'll check that book out. I still don't know what to recommend when people ask for a good introductory book on meditation.

Epstein is a psychoanalyst, so the book has a very particular brief wherein he's trying to find the common ground between the two disciplines. Perhaps not the best as an introduction? I'm not sure.

I guess it's the nature of who ends up writing successful books, but Epstein is another of the (admittedly few) writers I've read on the topic who has had access to some incredible teachers (Joseph Goldstein, Jack Kornfield) and spent time meditating with the actual Dalai Lama.

Happy New Year!

I went on my first day 'retreat' in December. It was at my local(ish) Buddhist centre and involved a morning of guided meditation and an afternoon of reflection and puja. I would go as far as to say I loved it - particularly the three hours of silence and guided meditation, which I feel I'm still kind of feeding on. I struggled with the more explicitly religious aspects, I think, but did find the puja quite moving. I'm definitely going to return when I can.

Contra to that, I find this time of year really difficult and found I couldn't really meditate at all. I need to pick apart why but it did lead to feelings of frustration and confusion, mainly around a dialogue of 'when I need it most!' etc. Something to consider.

And happy new year!

Cool!

Have I mentioned the daily dharma before? There was a good one today that is relevant. I can send a link to the full article if you want.

Is that associated with Tricycle? I've just had a look now - looks great. Will consider subscribing.

Link to the relevant article would be appreciated!

Sure. You don't need to subscribe to the paid version right away. You can just get the bitesized version in the email every day if you want and use up your three free monthly articles or whatever it is in the beginning.

https://tricycle.org/magazine/buddhism-and-psychotherapy/

Anyway, I always find lots of good stuff over there, usually very well-written, including this article that is now number 2 on the most read right now: https://tricycle.org/article/mindfulness-buddhism/

HNY! I was on retreat till the 4th. Now I'm back in the middle of the whole mess. A little more open than before, though.

I think the answer to this will be 'you need a teacher*!' but I've been meditating pretty much every/every other day for about 9 months now and am a mix of, well, I wouldn't go as far as frustrated but something like that, and something verging on *scared* - the former, I'm sure, is 100% par for the course and part of the process; the latter, I don't know, something I need guidance on? For instance, I've been steadily moving towards 20 minutes every morning and today I felt completely undercut by strong emotions, like I was falling through my own trapdoors. I teach at a secondary school and it made the day pretty much unbearable (kids smell weakness and boom!).

I can't decide if I'm just struggling with stuff emotionally anyway (fair to say I have a lot going on in my life, with an unwell teenage son, and I can be very sensitive at the best of times anyway), or whether the meditation is opening up areas and I need a handhold through it. I've read a lot recently about these kinds of experiences within practice, so could just be assigning things wrongly? Maybe the connection is irrelevant and go with it anyway? Questions, fucking questions.

Anyway, what I don't want, and I know I'll be susceptible to this, is for the practice to fade.

*or a therapist!

Do you not have a teacher now?

No teacher, mainly due to nothing particularly being available. I'm affiliated very loosely with a local Buddhist group, but nothing official or regular. It's all been self-taught from lots of reading and listening.

If you can't get a teacher and/or therapist ... (I do recommend one) ... find an amount of daily meditation that works. Something where you're stretching and growing a bit, but that you can handle.

The standard guidance I've heard is once you're meditating roughly forty minutes a day, time to get a teacher. Below that, a teacher can be very useful, but you're probably not going to get into weird territory.

Most teachers probably wouldn't see emotional release during a difficult time of your life as a problem, but that's for you to judge depending on your circumstances. Maybe meditate after work?

Another thing I'll say is that a lot of teachers are accessible via Zoom these days.

This is great advice lukas, thank you. Things have calmed down since my message upthread *and* I've managed to find a day retreat for this coming Saturday so can hopefully speak to someone about guidance/teaching.

So Buddhism has this concept of the "near enemy" of skillful qualities - e.g. it's easy to mistake pity for compassion.

Note to self re: this morning's sit ... indifference is the near enemy of equanimity.

(this message brought to you by my splenius capitis)

Or the way it occurred to me at the time (when I realized, ugh, Christ, that really hurts, and it intensified and then released) was actually "pretending it doesn't hurt is the opposite of equanimity".

Ledge it sounds like you’re in the right path - fantasizing about longer distances would seem to be a great sign! But build up to those distances gradually.

^^ wrong thread, sorry

no no, I see the connection

How's everyone getting along?

I've got about 18 months under my belt now - 4-5 times a week, 20 minutes a time. I'm also going to my local Buddhist centre a couple of times a month for guided meditation.

It's difficult to 'measure' directly but I feel 'something' is happening. I'm still unskillful a lot of the time but have a degree of distance from myself that feels new.

I'm sure it's correlation not causation but I've recently changed jobs and the process felt deliberate in a way I've not really had before - as if there were a firmer hand on the tiller or something like that.

Not a silver bullet but...

Just got back from a six-day retreat. Gorgeous location on a forested mountain. Great teacher. And we were allowed to talk at meals which was surprisingly great. I think that might be my preferred retreat model, one absorbs the vibes better when you can talk to people.

I might have said this before but meditation is a very physical process right now. Subtle tension patterns coming and going. Not much that I can look at directly to help it along, just kinda have to sit there while it works itself out.

I would like to try a retreat. Maybe just a weekend to start - to see what I can manage etc.

I'd say my process is still very cerebral/intellectual. It's more physical when I meditate in the presence of others, I think. I'm less distracted with others, somehow. There's something intangible about the shared nature of group meditation.

Anyway yes to the 'not a silver bullet' but also, dang, I should have done this years ago.

otm

China ski, I’m curious what you mean by “a degree of distance from myself” up above?

I haven’t really gotten back into a regular practice since like December, when I was in a great groove of daily meditation that really helped with calmly reflecting and handling tricky situations and overall emotional awareness. But I feel like I’m still enjoying the benefits of that so I’m not beating myself up over dropping the routine.

China ski, I’m curious what you mean by “a degree of distance from myself” up above?

I guess I'm thinking about the Pali meaning of mediation being something like 'becoming familiar with' and how this translates to 'off the cushion' experience, where now I'm much more inclined to notice habitual responses and processes - in interactions with others but also interactions with my thought processes.

Yeah when things happen I'm less often fully engulfed by them (people talk about awareness "collapsing.")