Pavement:Classic or Dud

also. . . name a better band from that era

― a (waterface), Friday, October 7, 2022 3:13 PM (three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

come on

I like Pavement, for the record - a lot! - but it's exactly this kind of hyperbole / mass hypnosis that puts me off

Also it's great to see them appreciated this way

it seems to me that Pavement has always occupied that enviable place in the indie rock pantheon along with Yo La Tengo, Dinosaur Jr, Sonic Youth, and a few others where it's basically taken for granted that their place in alt rock history is beyond reproach and more or less assured. I mean this is hardly an underdog story here

Sorry to grump all over the thread, I'm sincerely glad so many of you are having fun, especially since fun has been in such short supply these past few years

come on

I like Pavement, for the record - a lot! - but it's exactly this kind of hyperbole / mass hypnosis that puts me off

Name it. Name the band from that era that's better.

I think what we're seeing with this one, too, is kinda like a high school reunion ... at 10 years, you're happy to see people but really not far enough away from graduation to think of it as a big, special deal and you've not aged enough to really have the perspective that life doesn't last forever, it's the people and relationships that matter, etc. Then at 20 years, you're starting to understand that more and so you start to appreciate seeing old friends, recounting the memories, etc.

i think this is well said ...

And hey, they sounded great, seemed to be having fun at the show I saw. Very good vibes.

it seems to me that Pavement has always occupied that enviable place in the indie rock pantheon along with Yo La Tengo, Dinosaur Jr, Sonic Youth, and a few others where it's basically taken for granted that their place in alt rock history is beyond reproach and more or less assured. I mean this is hardly an underdog story here

I don't think it's the same thing for them to show up in a few "Best of the '90s" playlists or Pitchfork lists and actually being out there, playing in front of all these fans (including numerous parent / teenage kid pairings), reaping the love (and, yes, merch $$).

(To put it another way – occupying a spot in the "indie rock pantheon" plus $12.50 will get you a chicken sandwich...)

Last night was fantastic

More Wowee Zowee than I could have hoped for, a lot of early stuff I wouldn’t have expected.

A lot prior posts from the last couple days are very well stated.

I saw them live in 1995 and 1997, so for me it had been literally ages. They were better last night than I’d ever seen them, had the time of my life. It WAS very high school reunion-ish, in a good way.

Name it. Name the band from that era that's better.

― a (waterface), Friday, October 7, 2022 3:35 PM (four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I mean I don't typically get into ranking bands, and "good" is obviously subjective, but I'll take the bait. Some 90s-era "indie rock" bands who are or were to me - at least in their prime - at least as good (and, keeping the thread on track, worth memorializing) as Pavement, off the top of my head:

Sonic Youth, Helium, The Breeders, My Bloody Valentine, Slint, Hum, the Jesus & Mary Chain, Mazzy Star, Chavez, Royal Trux, Silkworm, Tortoise, Yo La Tengo, Dinosaur, the Melvins, Butthole Surfers, Meat Puppets, Fugazi, Spoon, Guided By Voices, Cat Power, Stars of the Lid, Hellacopters, Red Red Meat, Sebadoh, Sunny Day Real Estate, Polvo, Throwing Muses, Eric's Trip, Thinking Fellers, Unrest, New Pornographers, Teenage Fanclub, Come, Red Red Meat, Lungfish, Bardo Pond, probably many others, and this is before we even consider the many great bands on the lower tiers of cachet and visibility

If the Pixies had followed the same reunion model as Pavement (rather than reforming / limping on with a different lineup in such a way that even my wife, a big fan, says "I don't acknowledge any of these new albums"), I suspect it would be getting as much heat on your Twitter feed as Pavement.

(Also, as much as I love some of the bands on your list... I suspect you do not love Pavement the way some of us here do, if you consider them to be "at least as good" as Pavement!)

xxp The vibes were practically euphoric during the encore: Grave Architecture/Range Life/Gold Soundz/Here.

i mean we just agree to disagree. i don't think there's any of those bands that have anything as catchy as Pavement. NP's or GbV maybe. those are all great bands tho!

I think even the Chavez guys themselves would take turns punching me in the nuts if I told them they were as good as Pavement.

this is absolutely no dig at Paul or waterface for asking, but this is just silly. it *doesn't matter* who you or i or anyone else thinks is better and more deserving. it just doesn't! what we think about Pavement or anyone on that list doesn't mean anything to anyone but us.

i like to compare art and artists, too, but it has zero bearing on why Pavement can tour and make money and get lots of attention or whether or not they deserve less or more of any of it.

i know everyone knows this but it just drives me a little nuts.

x...p I forgot, besides Bob, I think Malkmus does need glasses now too - I have a vague recollection of him needing them when I saw him do a solo show in 2006.

FWIW, he was opening for New Pornographers and My Morning Jacket, and even during the Pavement songs, everyone just talked through his set. I was like "WTF, I know he's an opener, but he's also STEPHEN MALKMUS!" The next time I saw him was at the 2010 reunion - couldn't be more different.

xp, the more pertinent question is are there any bands on that list that were *bigger* than Pavement at their peak? some were close ... maybe some were, i don't know.

i'm asking for real if anyone thinks there's a bigger band than Pavement on that list. it's kinda tough to determine. JAMC? Spoon? Spoon does pretty good these days.

i like to compare art and artists, too, but it has zero bearing on why Pavement can tour and make money and get lots of attention or whether or not they deserve less or more of any of it.

they can tour and make lots of money (more than those other bands. . . Dino maybe comes close) because they're hugely popular, they write classic songs. if SY got back together *maybe* the hype would be similar, but obv. that's not gonna happen

Spoon are pretty close I'd wager, but I doubt they'd sell out in NYC 4 nights in a row. . . if they had lots of hits and broke up for twenty years? maybe.

ok maybe Fugazi. That would be huge

Gonna keep an eye on this and keep my fingers crossed that the Oct 6 materializes here

https://archive.org/search.php?query=creator%3A%22Pavement%22&sort=-date

xp I'm sure supply and demand has a lot to do with it. Like if they swung through town every year or two, I'm sure plenty of fans would skip shows, but if it's one every 10 years or perhaps never again...

i def. think shows are gonna start popping up

xpost. for sure!!!

I've seen them 4 times and you are making me wish I'd seen them on this tour.

Sonic Youth, Helium, The Breeders, My Bloody Valentine, Slint, Hum, the Jesus & Mary Chain, Mazzy Star, Chavez, Royal Trux, Silkworm, Tortoise, Yo La Tengo, Dinosaur, the Melvins, Butthole Surfers, Meat Puppets, Fugazi, Spoon, Guided By Voices, Cat Power, Stars of the Lid, Hellacopters, Red Red Meat, Sebadoh, Sunny Day Real Estate, Polvo, Throwing Muses, Eric's Trip, Thinking Fellers, Unrest, New Pornographers, Teenage Fanclub, Come, Red Red Meat, Lungfish, Bardo Pond,

Just ask yourself how many of these bands are more or less fun than Pavement.

wikipedia list of bands

saw them last week in boston and it was fun for sure--the setlists on this tour are for the real heads (which i am not) but it was a great vibe and great crowd and the band and audience all seemed really happy.

I'm sure supply and demand has a lot to do with it. Like if they swung through town every year or two, I'm sure plenty of fans would skip shows, but if it's one every 10 years or perhaps never again...

yeah if they were playing here every few years as a legacy act & i'd already seen them then i probably wouldn't have bought a ticket to see them next year - i'm not any sort of pavement super fan - but i do like them a lot & i was too young for the first reunion so i'm very much looking forward to seeing them.

https://external-preview.redd.it/QPmKVEPhfvZ9XfdS9uCcmHIvgzjIiHFdEquW4xtUeOA.jpg

Malkmus looks like the rest of the band dug him up years after he'd died in this photo

https://external-preview.redd.it/QPmKVEPhfvZ9XfdS9uCcmHIvgzjIiHFdEquW4xtUeOA.jpg?auto=webp&s=d9def49b983ed8b51b44faa9e4865ee709f9fb2c

I went to their Kings Theater show in Brooklyn and left after 3 songs. But that was about my mental state (tired, free ticket so I didn't care much, and realizing I get nothing out of old bands / reunion tours). They sounded impressive in a really muscular way that was totally at odds with how I remember seeing them in New Zealand in 1992 or whenever. But I realize that they need a big loud properly EQed show now. But to me it just made them sound like just another band...

xp wig out at bernies or weekend at jagbags?

https://www.nplusonemag.com/issue-39/essays/baby-yeah/. Apologies if this was already posted, but as a Pavement fan going through my own grief, I thought this was a well written essay.

That was one hell of a piece.

Here’s the DC show:

https://archive.org/details/Pavement_2022-10-06

From this BBC piece:

He laughs when I mention the second verse: "Show me a word that rhymes with pavement/And I won't kill your parents and roast them on a spit" (the joke being that the second line describes the word "depravement")

I found that claim really weird as well. I'm not sure "depravement" is even a word (it would be "depravity," right?)

Depravement
Verb
Something that depraves someone makes them morally bad or evil.
"I won't kill your parents and roast them on a spit."

The next paragraph:

"That's the kind of thing you write when you're feeling cocky and you think it's a b-side," says Malkmus.

Should have been on there instead of We Are Underused.

Highly suggest seeking out videos or archive.org of this run. They're on fire

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nj6sc1pFgwE

If I had any idea how much I'd enjoy the DC show I would have made plans to travel to see them elsewhere.

^ same ... i wish now that i had tacked Seattle onto the Portland show. i didn't expect so much setlist variation.

"Just so right and so tight," observed Pavement's Stephen Malkmus of Ma Kelly's Greasy Spoon. "As with Dog of Two Head from the year after, this record is transitional: it's the man-steps towards their interchangeable album phase of pure-denim-heads-down-choogle, and never gets boring. Smooth voices over solid grooves. If it was a place, I wish I was there."[3]

This single-handedly has given me some respect for Malkmus. Much more endearing than pretending to have listened to Ege Bamyasi for a thousand consecutive days.

Looking forward to all of these videos! They were great in Boston but the sound was bad. Also, kinda shocked at the number of douchey bros in the audience, but maybe that's just Boston. Singing along with every single song.

the sound was bad but the crowd was endearing imo, everyone was so happy to be hanging w/pavement!

yeah i would go either way on that. for some songs would be annoying, but to be a in crowd of people yelling "Don't worry, we're in no hurry" would probably be life affirming

Bob Nastanovich practically made the concept of a rando singing/shouting along to the songs part of the show.

Everyone (including me) was singing along to every word at the DC show, something I was vaguely conscious of in the moment that was confirmed on the recording.

Yeah, basically the entire crowd at the Philly show sang along, myself included.

The whole audience shouting along with Bob parts ala "I know him, and he does!" is righteous and sounds great on the recordings. The lameness happens when people loudly sing along with Malkmus and get all out of synch with his improvisational phrasing and drown out his impromptu lyrical changes.

They did an Austin City Limits taping last Friday night, so I'm guessing that will be broadcast and back online sometime. Watched the livestream of it and it was fun, no audience noise.

Nice jazzy cover of "Elevate Me Later" by Say Sue Me on their new EP:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRLfLFT9MSQ

They do "Honk If You're Lonely" as well.