pitchfork is dumb (#34985859340293849494 in a series.)

Comparing Malkmus and Brock as lyricists is interesting but a bit reductive if you disregard delivery.

Malkmus spun some clever lines with exquisite wordplay, but delivered them in a (frequently off-key) drawl or bark that made the words feel tossed off, arch and sardonic. It felt throwaway but wasn't.

Brock wrote impressionistic nonsense, but delivered his words with a combination of urgency and woundedness that feels very raw and unaffected. It felt like a punch in the guts but you don't really know why.

I guess Malkmus is the guy at the party who'll charm you with his wit and steal your girlfriend, and you won't really mind. Whereas Brock's the guy at the party who'll weep about his dead dog while cutting line in the bathroom queue, then throw up on his own shoes.

Having seen both Modest Mouse (at a festival) and Pavement (in theaters) in the past five months, I can attest that their live shows (sound/presentation/"vibes") are very different at the moment...

hot take so spice
it was posted twice

i'm too much i'm too much comforted here

the recent Isaac Brock interview where he's still clearly fucked up is a shock because I thought he'd gotten sober. dunno if I read it or just assumed it because people like that kinda have to get sober if they wanna make it to middle age. perhaps I was thinking of Gene Ween.

definitely some class stuff going on between the cultural/critical perception of MM & Pavement

This is all I meant with my community college vs Ivy league thing

I was honestly curious. I hadn't thought of them as representative of different social classes but I was always more of a Built to Spill > Modest Mouse guy. Discussion was interesting.

The class discussion had been enlightening; it's an interesting perspective I hadn't thought of before.

This is what I love about ILX. And getting piled on when I diss The Beths.

don't think we've forgotten about that

Cheers @pitchfork for ranking If You're Feeling Sinister the 25th best album of the 90s!https://t.co/dPXwExPurN

— belle & sebastian (@bellesglasgow) September 29, 2022

This is quite sweet but my first thought was 'Cheers p4k for enjoying our album less than you used to'

It's 2022, everyone enjoys B&S less than they used to.

don't think much less though

I've remained been the same on them - ehhh hmmm

I still think Tigermilk is great, but apparently Pfork doesn’t…

"The State I Am In" from Tigermilk is great as the one B&S song represented in the poll, and If You're Feeling Sinister still seems like a landmark album for its time

The only '96 B&S song I'm all that bothered about is Electronic Renaissance, but that's a real goodun

Tigermilk has some problematic lyrics from today's perspective but it's still a bop.

Yeah, especially post-Tiger King

I like that Belle & Sebastian presented their early EPs and LPs as an unambiguous rejection of the hypermasculine music of the 90s

Sleater-Kinney's "One More Hour" is really great. I'm glad that that is their representation on the tracks list

Sleater-Kinney's "One More Hour" is really great. I'm glad that that is their representation on the tracks list

It was my favourite SK song as a teen, and it's still my favourite now. In retrospect I shoulda figured out I was gay waaaaaay sooner. Fuck compulsory cishet.

Anyway, as much as I love the songs on Dig Me Out, I think The Hot Rock is their true full-length masterpiece.

"one more hour" is their best song yeah

Lists! On the internet!

went through a little 'exile in guyville' phase recently but LOL @ ranking it above 'nevermind'

'american water' above any pavement album (also no 'wowee zowee') is kinda crazy imo. DB is one of my fav song writers ever, but the SJ albums are all kinda uneven imho. the pavement albums are just perfect front to back

122. Roni Size / Reprazent: New Forms (1997)

hell yeah

idk i think all the pavement albums are kinda inconsistent and chaotic but that's also supposed to be part of the appeal

but yeah american water being above crooked rain is pretty weird

None more so than Wowee Zowee, which is a sprawling masterpiece of chaos.

Sebadoh albums make Pavement look super consistent by comparison though...

'crooked rain' is completely solid

I dunno, Range Life is a great song but it is a bit of a gimmick. And that fake jazz song is kinda cringe.

the problem with 'american water' is nothing else comes close to 'smith and jones' and 'random rules'. since those are 2 of the best songs of all time, it's a steep drop-off right at the beginning

crooked rain is the most consistent pavement album but it still has one goofy aside in "5-4=unity" and i do not care about "hit the plane down" at all

'american water' above any pavement album (also no 'wowee zowee') is kinda crazy imo. DB is one of my fav song writers ever, but the SJ albums are all kinda uneven imho. the pavement albums are just perfect front to back

― flopson

idk part of Pavement's charm for me is their insistence on shaggy-ass experiments that are best skippable and at worst active irritants; it's why I rank WZ above the rest. I couldn't imagine Pavement without them.

Pavement could make puzzling choices over what to put on albums and what to leave off; their B-sides were often the equal or better of their album cuts. I'm thinking of Strings of Nashville in particular.

i resent the idea that it's ludicrous to rank exile over nevermind, it's a lot better (but they're both good unlike pavement for example)

Tbh agree, EiG is a much better record—

Pollard is a better songwriter and an infinitely better lyricist/poet than Berman or Malkmus could ever hope to be.

this claim is false metal incarnate

also false maths

i can see people ranking American Water above CR CR. WZ is better tho

*the whole album is catchy--lyrics, Malkmus shredding, the drums. you can literally sing the whole album, the lyrics are so good etc
*CR has Newark Wilder and Hit the Plane--now if they had put All My Friends on there, who knows? Or Raft?

i love newark wilder lol

it’s a brand new era! it feels great!

That's one way Pavement remind me of REM. Feels like everyone has a different favorite REM record--kinda similar with Pavement. Probably mostly Wowee Zowee but I bet after that there's a lotta variety. BTW has there been a pavement album poll?

ah yes found it. interesting. I'd probably rank WZ S&E (American Water) CRCR BTC TT

i think the highest highs are on crooked rain, and it also sticks together best as an album qua album imo

hit the plane down and 5-4 are oddities that come with the slacker territory, but both are better than brinx job

hahaha we agree to disagree but i think that's what interesting about the band--tough to pick a definitive rant

I sometimes say to others 'well I do like some Pavement, Wowee Zowee say', but last time I listened to it I turned it off pretty quickly so I'm not sure now.

The liberals say they like them but I know that they don't.

I've never heard Terror Twilight, maybe that's the ticket

Sebadoh albums make Pavement look super consistent by comparison though...

III or Smash Your Head really should qualify for these lists – but like a few other major indie bands of the day (Unrest; the aforementioned RTX) Sebadoh seems largely ignored/forgotten now (Bakesale did make the ‘99 list, fwiw)

Man Smash your Head was so huge in my day