pitchfork is dumb (#34985859340293849494 in a series.)

I guess this isn't Spin Magazine.

I know The Prodigy and Moby were huge at the time. But now they're $1 thrift store finds. I recently bought Play and Fat of the Land at a Salvation Army store, ready for some heady nostalgia. They didn't hold up for me on a relisten. Very much 'you had to be there' albums and even though I was there... they just remind me of straying into my older brother's incense-and-lava-lamp teenage bedroom.

Fortunately I got my $2 back when I sold them in a bulk lot of other unloved CDs.

Me too, so glad I was able to see Pale Saints live in Los Angeles. Truly a great show.

― Bee OK

I am ridiculously jealous! I got into them way too late to ever see them. Not sure if they ever came to New Zealand but it's irrelevant because I would have been like eight...

Is there a single jazz record on this list?

Ask the Ages

given the amount of coverage they still get, I'm surprised there are no Foo Fighters albums on the list

: you can see me from westbury white horse;
Thank you, I only skimmed

Speaking of saints ... there is no Utah Saints on either list! How is this possible. (I'd probably put them on both albums and tracks lists, but not even having "Something Good" on the tracks list is EGREGIOUS.

)

But NMH were comparatively ignored by people who were there in 1998.

― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Wednesday, September 28, 2022 2:09 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

ok that's true but even as an online/critical phenomenon there was very much a specific time for it. it's one of the earliest albums I can remember getting meme'd a bunch. its reputation overshadowed the actual album and I can definitely see kids today hearing it and going "yeah it's okay, what's the big deal?"

The now-uncool big-beat commercial albums of the late '90s (Prodigy, Chem Bros, Fatboy Slim, Moby) all hold up 1000x better than The Bodyguard soundtrack or whatever the fuck

― hi hole im dad (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, September 28, 2022 2:51 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

come to think of it Play is actually kind of a big omission, not just because of how huge/forced down our gullets it was but also because what he did on that album still feels super relevant today for better or worse. and I do think it still holds up today

Fatboy Slim otoh, used to love him as a kid but c'mon You've Come a Long Way, Baby has held up about as well as a carton of milk

the albums list is good, sorry boomers

it’s basically identical to how an ILM list would look

That's the exact problem with it

I think both lists are good, great to see both Mariah Carey and MBV fêted

its reputation overshadowed the actual album and I can definitely see kids today hearing it and going "yeah it's okay, what's the big deal?"

― frogbs, Wednesday, September 28, 2022

Not sure about that. Aeroplane still sounds unlike anything else

violator would be way higher in an ilm list

This is interesting to me, because MM's 90s output should hit the same 'raggedy loose American indie guitar band' spot that Pavement does today. Guess they haven't had a totally unexpected B-side algorithm revival with zoomers though...

― The Ghost Club, Wednesday, September 28, 2022 2:30 PM (four hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

I think it's two things: First, Pavement could certainly be raggedy and loose, but Malkmus also had that arch, literary quality that I think gave them a bit more cultural cachet.

Second, Pavement broke up after a killer decade-long run and spared us years of subpar, inessential albums. Imagine if Modest Mouse called it quits after "Float On," and I think there'd be more fondness for them among their original fans and more of a mystique about them for younger people.

violator would be way higher in an ilm list

― comedy khadafi (voodoo chili), Wednesday, September 28, 2022 6:40 PM (thirty-four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Rah! ;-)

Speaking of saints ... there is no Utah Saints on either list! How is this possible. (I'd probably put them on both albums and tracks lists, but not even having "Something Good" on the tracks list is EGREGIOUS.

― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Wednesday, September 28, 2022 4:52 PM (three hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

)

― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra

on mine!

That first Utah Saints means more to me than all of Moby (whom I like).

I noticed that Utah Saints s/t is hardbag now on rym. That's an interesting revision.

I'll throw in a third Saints - All. Except I think their best stuff is from 2000.

a modern ilm list would be a bit more rockist but probably wouldn't be too different in general vibe

This is interesting to me, because MM's 90s output should hit the same 'raggedy loose American indie guitar band' spot that Pavement does today. Guess they haven't had a totally unexpected B-side algorithm revival with zoomers though...
― The Ghost Club, Wednesday, September 28, 2022 2:30 PM (four hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Part of it is that Isaac Brock had this drunken rude asshole who occasionally said profound things persona going on (sorta like Bill Hicks), and I think maybe the appeal of that isn't what it once was

I don’t know what I’m missing but that Lauryn Hill album doesn’t do anything for me.

MM are “raggedy” but have always been pretty intense, and not really “fun” or anthemic (Float On notwithstanding). Heck, Built to Spill is also “raggedy,” but they don’t have Pavement’s other qualities… it’s not really a diss or negative judgment, just sort of a basic reality that not many bands have songs like Pavement. (Of course, the break up/reunion cycle no doubt helps too.)

I don’t know what I’m missing but that Lauryn Hill album doesn’t do anything for me.

― ✖✖✖ (Moka),

Me neither but I'm through fighting consensus. It's a good enough album that needed to happen in 1998.

Morrisp, frogsb and jaymc all otm with their takes on Modest Mouse.

It's hard for me to look at Lonesome Crowded West rationally because it was such an important record for me as a teenager. I still think it's one of the best 90s indie guitar records.

I guess it's a slight consolation that the Moon and Antarctica placed pretty highly on Pitchfork's 2000s list (sixth). But that list is probably due a revisionist take soon...

Agree it's been sad to see MM in decline since the mid-2000s. I really haven't cared for them since Good News, and even then I was starting to grow tired.

Pavement definitely did have better songs overall and a great run of albums. Wowee Zowee is my pick over Crooked Rain. Always loved it even when the critics hated it, although it has had a major reversal in critical fortunes in the decades since its release.

Built to Spill's Keep it Like a Secret is masterfully arranged, not ragged at all

we were dead was better than good news (though by no means great) but then they took 8 years to make the next one and it was disastrous

they never quite had the same critical cachet as say, pavement, & even pavement's has gone down a bit compared to a decade ago. 'pretty good indie rock' is no longer good enough to do really well in one of these lists (except for liz phair i guess but i don't really get that level of acclaim for her)

looking forward to the eventual p4k 00s list embarrassing ilm by correctly having kylie's fever place at all, unlike our list from a few years ago

70s albums next surely

looking forward to the eventual p4k 00s list embarrassing ilm by correctly having kylie's fever place at all, unlike our list from a few years ago

― ufo

That would be rad.

I don't see Arcade Fire staying at no.2 on the next p4k list...

Do DMB make an appearance at all?

I do share the views upthread that this doesn't go deep enough into the 90s and include at least a handful of outliers you wouldn't expect there, which to me is always a big thrill of looking through lists like this. You find new shit you didn't know before.

But even in the overground, missing off something like Suede's debut is a huge error. It played a big part in turning the guitar-based narrative away from grunge and onto something completely different, at least outside the US. It's a really important album. And I don't expect anyone who made this list to have been there at the time, but at least do some fucking research. If you're doing something about the decade in music, you need markers in there that show off the narrative ebb and flow. Instead we got the Cranberries.

But they opened for Suede -- all you need to know.

suede have never had that much critical cachet outside the uk and apparently still don't.

don't get the complaint about 'lack of depth', for one of these lists to really have the room to dig deep into real obscurities it either has to be much more limited in breadth than this one (though there are still blind spots as pointed out - metal, big beat, etc.) or take a deliberately contrarian approach like the lists fact used to publish. as someone who was born in the 90s and thus didn't live through it as a music fan there's still stuff for me to dig through here that i'm not too familiar with

there's also a ton of stuff here that falls outside what's more traditionally made up the canon. i think this albums list is pretty good at what it's trying to do, a fair bit better than usual for one of these

the MM dialogue is reminding me of a dude I’d interact with online in the late 90s who loved Modest Mouse and Mouse on Mars equally. I would guess he had opinions about Radiohead come Kid A time

I'm revisiting the Cranberries album; the production is like bathing directly in a pure stream of Early '90s!

I agree 's not the strongest album, but it has some jams; I forgot about this song "Sunday" ("...You mystify me, you mystify me...")

love the atmospheric songs on moon and antarctica. and also “interstate 8”, “broke”, “dramamine”.. mm did release a lot of unlistenable godawful crap though

The real best album of the 90s is probably Foxbase Alpha (US version with “kiss and make up” and the mix of “people get real” with strings)

funny when I was living with these dudes who were certified MM freaks I'd always say "hey guys I'm gonna throw on some Mouse" and play Mouse on Mars instead. eventually they grew to dig it.

this 90s albums list is really so much better than the 80s one from a few years ago

Both these lists seem fine. Some good choices, some boring stuff, some really bad shit. Aggregated best ofs are going to get more generic over time as distinct memories fade.

I don’t know what I’m missing but that Lauryn Hill album doesn’t do anything for me.

― ✖✖✖ (Moka),

Me neither but I'm through fighting consensus. It's a good enough album that needed to happen in 1998.

― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, September 28, 2022 5:55 PM

didn't we just duke it out over that one not too long ago? you had the defending position, you rascal.

(although not to rehash but absolutely no- it was not good enough. it was awful and bloated.🙂)

Agree:re Liz Phair reappraisal seeming a lot more pronounced of late. Possibly this is just a reflection of who my friends are/their friends are/etc but I feel like Exile in Guyville took a back seat for quite along time and now its stumbling back. I haven't heard it for maybe 7-8 years so this has reminded me to hear it again.

― you can see me from westbury white horse, Wednesday, September 28, 2022 10:37 AM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

put this record on for a spin a few weeks back and damn if i hadn't been humming melodies from it since. was pleased the album and song placed as high as it did.

"nashville" is still the best.

I can't believe no one's mentioned Insane Clown Posse in this thread.

Those lamenting the lack of Ween on p4k's list should check out Andrew Earles' book Gimme Indie Rock, which includes four Ween records among its list of 500 essential American indie albums from 1981-1996.

Of course I'm disinclined to take the author's choices as gospel given that there's only one (?!) Throwing Muses album (s/t). Overlooking House Tornado or The Real Ramona in favour of any Ween album is sacrilege, in my book...

Still no answer to my DMB question, apparently ILM hates popular music from the 90s when it suits

I jokingly asked why no DMB myself, TBH it's legitimately nostalgic for me and I feel good when I hear it. He actually seemed like he might have had his turn for critical reappraisal a few years ago, but didn't seem to fully happen.