pitchfork is dumb (#34985859340293849494 in a series.)

Latin Playboys, s/t
Los Lobos, Kiko & Colossal Head

great run

Yeah, Fatboy Slim made some great singles (and videos). I don't think I'd consider his albums though.

All excellent albums, but Ragged Glory and Johnny Cash's American Recordings are the only ones I ever remember being discussed or listened to by a good number of my peers.

I mean, they're pulled from the Pazz & Jop archives. A lot of them (Rosanne Cash, Richard Thompson, Jimmie Dale Gilmore, Latin Playboys, Los Lobos) are records that no one but critics ever gave the tiniest fuck about.

The only rap album on that 90's list is Check Your Head? Great album but ... yeah. Pitchfork back then catered to a scene and Ryan Schreiber's tastes at the time. Now it caters to the industry at large, and it's massively reflected in these lists and their changes over the years. The list above feels very much "on brand" for them at the time (was reading their reviews as early as 98). The updated singles list feels on brand for them today. It's just an evolution of branding.

Also thanks for the link Keyes

Interesting about the Minneapolis thing, I didn't know that (though now I'm getting vague déjà vu, like we've discussed this before...)

Pulling Tom Waits out of the canon is criminal, but I guess he hung with plenty of neckbeard bands in the '90s so he's got Buckethead stink on him

― hi hole im dad (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, September 28, 2022 2:48 PM (four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

i blame tom scharpling

I mean, they're pulled from the Pazz & Jop archives. A lot of them (Rosanne Cash, Richard Thompson, Jimmie Dale Gilmore, Latin Playboys, Los Lobos) are records that no one but critics ever gave the tiniest fuck about.

Interiors, #23 on the country chart
American recordings, also #23

Interesting about the Minneapolis thing, I didn't know that (though now I'm getting vague déjà vu, like we've discussed this before...)

― "Cool ranch dressing!" (morrisp), Wednesday, September 28, 2022 2:58 PM (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

see also: 12 Rods

The now-uncool big-beat commercial albums of the late '90s (Prodigy, Chem Bros, Fatboy Slim, Moby) all hold up 1000x better than The Bodyguard soundtrack or whatever the fuck

also yeah either Jilted or Fat of the Land belong on this list for sure alongside Dig Your Own Hole

Los Lobos has always had a pretty loyal following at least live

I was SHOOK when You've Come a Long Way Baby didn't make p4k's revised 1998 list from a few years ago so I expected nothing less

(amazing album and FBS had two entries in the last 90s singles list if you also count them going for his Brimful of Asha over the original as per now)

Play being a major American critical favourite *before* it became a big international hit album is something I always forget

I just realized that Teenage Fanclub Bandwagonesque is also missing. I didn't expect The Boo Radleys, Suede, Pale Saints or Super Furry Animals to place but did expect Teenage Fanclub to place. I don't have any use for the revised lists.

If there had to be only one Prodigy album it ought to have been Experience. Acen on the singles list was the only nod to ardkore iirc?

Pale Saints only ever seem to make it to 'best shoegaze' lists. They didn't even make Ned's list of the top 20 albums on 4AD. Which is a shame, because Comforts of Madness is easily a Top 50 all-time for me.

Me too, so glad I was able to see Pale Saints live in Los Angeles. Truly a great show.

Same, but In Ribbons

"The Concept" made it onto the tracks list, at least

I guess this isn't Spin Magazine.

I know The Prodigy and Moby were huge at the time. But now they're $1 thrift store finds. I recently bought Play and Fat of the Land at a Salvation Army store, ready for some heady nostalgia. They didn't hold up for me on a relisten. Very much 'you had to be there' albums and even though I was there... they just remind me of straying into my older brother's incense-and-lava-lamp teenage bedroom.

Fortunately I got my $2 back when I sold them in a bulk lot of other unloved CDs.

Me too, so glad I was able to see Pale Saints live in Los Angeles. Truly a great show.

― Bee OK

I am ridiculously jealous! I got into them way too late to ever see them. Not sure if they ever came to New Zealand but it's irrelevant because I would have been like eight...

Is there a single jazz record on this list?

Ask the Ages

given the amount of coverage they still get, I'm surprised there are no Foo Fighters albums on the list

: you can see me from westbury white horse;
Thank you, I only skimmed

Speaking of saints ... there is no Utah Saints on either list! How is this possible. (I'd probably put them on both albums and tracks lists, but not even having "Something Good" on the tracks list is EGREGIOUS.

)

But NMH were comparatively ignored by people who were there in 1998.

― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Wednesday, September 28, 2022 2:09 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

ok that's true but even as an online/critical phenomenon there was very much a specific time for it. it's one of the earliest albums I can remember getting meme'd a bunch. its reputation overshadowed the actual album and I can definitely see kids today hearing it and going "yeah it's okay, what's the big deal?"

The now-uncool big-beat commercial albums of the late '90s (Prodigy, Chem Bros, Fatboy Slim, Moby) all hold up 1000x better than The Bodyguard soundtrack or whatever the fuck

― hi hole im dad (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, September 28, 2022 2:51 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

come to think of it Play is actually kind of a big omission, not just because of how huge/forced down our gullets it was but also because what he did on that album still feels super relevant today for better or worse. and I do think it still holds up today

Fatboy Slim otoh, used to love him as a kid but c'mon You've Come a Long Way, Baby has held up about as well as a carton of milk

the albums list is good, sorry boomers

it’s basically identical to how an ILM list would look

That's the exact problem with it

I think both lists are good, great to see both Mariah Carey and MBV fêted

its reputation overshadowed the actual album and I can definitely see kids today hearing it and going "yeah it's okay, what's the big deal?"

― frogbs, Wednesday, September 28, 2022

Not sure about that. Aeroplane still sounds unlike anything else

violator would be way higher in an ilm list

This is interesting to me, because MM's 90s output should hit the same 'raggedy loose American indie guitar band' spot that Pavement does today. Guess they haven't had a totally unexpected B-side algorithm revival with zoomers though...

― The Ghost Club, Wednesday, September 28, 2022 2:30 PM (four hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

I think it's two things: First, Pavement could certainly be raggedy and loose, but Malkmus also had that arch, literary quality that I think gave them a bit more cultural cachet.

Second, Pavement broke up after a killer decade-long run and spared us years of subpar, inessential albums. Imagine if Modest Mouse called it quits after "Float On," and I think there'd be more fondness for them among their original fans and more of a mystique about them for younger people.

violator would be way higher in an ilm list

― comedy khadafi (voodoo chili), Wednesday, September 28, 2022 6:40 PM (thirty-four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Rah! ;-)

Speaking of saints ... there is no Utah Saints on either list! How is this possible. (I'd probably put them on both albums and tracks lists, but not even having "Something Good" on the tracks list is EGREGIOUS.

― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Wednesday, September 28, 2022 4:52 PM (three hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

)

― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra

on mine!

That first Utah Saints means more to me than all of Moby (whom I like).

I noticed that Utah Saints s/t is hardbag now on rym. That's an interesting revision.

I'll throw in a third Saints - All. Except I think their best stuff is from 2000.

a modern ilm list would be a bit more rockist but probably wouldn't be too different in general vibe

This is interesting to me, because MM's 90s output should hit the same 'raggedy loose American indie guitar band' spot that Pavement does today. Guess they haven't had a totally unexpected B-side algorithm revival with zoomers though...
― The Ghost Club, Wednesday, September 28, 2022 2:30 PM (four hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Part of it is that Isaac Brock had this drunken rude asshole who occasionally said profound things persona going on (sorta like Bill Hicks), and I think maybe the appeal of that isn't what it once was

I don’t know what I’m missing but that Lauryn Hill album doesn’t do anything for me.

MM are “raggedy” but have always been pretty intense, and not really “fun” or anthemic (Float On notwithstanding). Heck, Built to Spill is also “raggedy,” but they don’t have Pavement’s other qualities… it’s not really a diss or negative judgment, just sort of a basic reality that not many bands have songs like Pavement. (Of course, the break up/reunion cycle no doubt helps too.)

I don’t know what I’m missing but that Lauryn Hill album doesn’t do anything for me.

― ✖✖✖ (Moka),

Me neither but I'm through fighting consensus. It's a good enough album that needed to happen in 1998.

Morrisp, frogsb and jaymc all otm with their takes on Modest Mouse.

It's hard for me to look at Lonesome Crowded West rationally because it was such an important record for me as a teenager. I still think it's one of the best 90s indie guitar records.

I guess it's a slight consolation that the Moon and Antarctica placed pretty highly on Pitchfork's 2000s list (sixth). But that list is probably due a revisionist take soon...

Agree it's been sad to see MM in decline since the mid-2000s. I really haven't cared for them since Good News, and even then I was starting to grow tired.

Pavement definitely did have better songs overall and a great run of albums. Wowee Zowee is my pick over Crooked Rain. Always loved it even when the critics hated it, although it has had a major reversal in critical fortunes in the decades since its release.

Built to Spill's Keep it Like a Secret is masterfully arranged, not ragged at all

we were dead was better than good news (though by no means great) but then they took 8 years to make the next one and it was disastrous

they never quite had the same critical cachet as say, pavement, & even pavement's has gone down a bit compared to a decade ago. 'pretty good indie rock' is no longer good enough to do really well in one of these lists (except for liz phair i guess but i don't really get that level of acclaim for her)

looking forward to the eventual p4k 00s list embarrassing ilm by correctly having kylie's fever place at all, unlike our list from a few years ago