pitchfork is dumb (#34985859340293849494 in a series.)

final thought: i'm just here for the show.

I'm gonna guess lack of consensus is what ultimately keeps Ween out of lists like this. Though I suppose if enough people cared, Chocolate & Cheese might be where Pitchfork would settle.

― billstevejim, Wednesday, September 28, 2022 11:37 AM (thirty-eight minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

imo if any Ween album was gonna make it it would be The Mollusk, it's almost certainly their best 90s work and it exists in a genre all its own. plus it apparently was the primary inspiration for Spongebob so it probably deserves points for that. anyway I get these lists have to omit a lot of important things but I do get the impression they were trying to at least include token representations of everything big going on in the 90s (besides nu metal I guess), so yea in retrospect not including any of this stuff seems like a mistake

if nothing else, these lists are a great excuse for people to post variations on "this is what a particular set of people think of the soundscape of the 90s at this point in time" and "this is a terrible list and these people are wrong"

To me, the song list does kinda feel like what the decade was “actually like”

"Everything I Do" should be #1 if that's what they're going for.

Unlikely people coming out of the woodwork today

They put a Hole album higher than Nevermind. That's all you need to know about this list.

— David Firth (Salad Fingers) (@DAVID_FIRTH) September 28, 2022

xp I'm not talking about just "reflecting the charts," but what I was actually hearing/listening to.

The most frothing, misguided, incel rockist Twitter wahmbulance complaint about this is still less embarrassing than the weird full-throated defense Soto has been mounting over the last two days

my only terrible take is that if it's a reflection of what the decade was like vs. what songs we collectively are thinking of and want to remember...

..I'm glad we've all collectively forgotten Deep Blue Something

I was hearing it a lot more than "Fantasy (Remix)"!2xp

Albums list is less terrible (for me). Ask the Ages making it is the most I could have hoped for from this.

To me, the song list does kinda feel like what the decade was “actually like”

would also like to co-sign this. "shook ones" was such a pillar and it felt for so long like the hiphop crowd was the only place where it received its proper due. wonderful -and again, hilarious- to see it alongside "steal my sunshine." that is very representative of "my 90s experience"™

the whirlwind of beef, whiney craves it

That's also my favorite sandwich at Arbys

xxp - Yes, and obviously it's subjective (maybe that point got lost; I was explaining why I personally responded to the list, not that it reflects some essential nature of the decade that everyone must recognize).

-i think this list feels pretty balanced overall, i don't have huge problems with it
-the velvet rope being top 10 is a triumph
-between this and whichever rolling stone list it was i think we're at a point now where miseducation is a little overrated, it's good but not thaaat good
-surprised love deluxe wasn't top 10 after diamond life was in the 80s list a few years back, 52 is shockingly low
-american water is a lot higher than i would have expected
-i'm glad little earthquakes is at least on there but where the hell is from the choirgirl hotel on a list like this
-lol i just found that little earthquakes was actually #8 on pitchfork's original 90s list from 1999, what the hell happened
-no underworld, seriously? also no low, afghan whigs, olivia tremor control, super furry animals but wasn't really expecting any of those
-when did exile in guyville's critical standing get this high again, it felt like it was out of fashion for a while. don't think it was the best 'indie rock' of the decade at all
-violator is somehow underrated now
-was not expecting sheena ringo at all but disappointed regardless

most frothing, misguided, incel rockist Twitter wahmbulance complaint about this is still less embarrassing than the weird full-throated defense Soto has been mounting over the last two days

― hi hole im dad (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, September 28, 2022 1:32 PM (eleven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Hurricane days.

xxp - Yes, and obviously it's subjective (maybe that point got lost; I was explaining why I personally responded to the list, not that it reflects some essential nature of the decade that everyone must recognize).

Right, I get you. My reaction to the songs list was close to the opposite.

I do think it's funny that most people seem to be discussing the top 10 and bottom 10 entries on both lists and not much in between, which I guess reveals how people seem to be reading these lists

I like both American Water and Guyville a lot, but I was also surprised at how high they're ranked (there are various other great bands/albums I would have also liked to see represented - maybe in 15 years....).

DJ Premier’s trademarked plinky piano loop kicks in seconds into “Work” and you go “uhh”—like, this is an insane oatmeal raisin cookie “uhh”—only for Guru to instantly echo your satisfaction with an “uhh” of his own.

As the personal is musical, here are my cards-on-the-table 10/10s that were never going to make it (8s and 9s obv too numerous to mention), in chronological order: Cardiacs - Heaven Born and Ever Bright, Julian Cope - Jehovahkill, Suede - Suede, Current 93 - Of Ruine or Some Blazing Starre, Deep Turtle - There's a Vomitsprinkler in My Liverriver, Rudimentary Peni - Pope Adrian 37th Psychristiatric, The Sea Nymphs - The Sea Nymphs, Tim Smith - Tim Smith's Extra Special OceanLandWorld, Neurosis - Through Silver in Blood, Cardiacs - Sing to God, The Loud Family - Interbabe Concern, The Fall - Levitate, Earl Brutus - Tonight You Are the Special One, Mansun - Six, Boredoms - Super Roots 7, Spratleys Japs - Pony, Coil - Musick to Play in the Dark, Cardiacs - Guns

I stopped my list at top 50 ever when I realised I was mostly just listing British rock albums but it could expand to e.g. C'mon Kids, Six, Extra Special OceanLandWorld

"Fantasy (Remix)" is a great #1.

Jehovahkill is decade best

oatmeal raisin was a popular cookie, and it still is

Jehovahkill is all-time (fifth) best

All of the above

xp Indeed I listened to it earlier which is why I sent my list earlier

Whiney otm

as far as what i would've liked to have seen-

BLOWOUT FUCKING COMB!!!

i mean, it seems like it's just become accepted fact by now that outkast's whole persona (i.e. "the player and the poet") was hugely influential and important. blowout comb much less so, but i can't help but think its introspective radicalism isn't more relevant than ever. just that super hip "don't fuck with me and me people" righteousness. AND HOLY HELL THE BEATS, MY GOD. "for corners" is one of the most progressive productions of the decade. the whole album just gets better with age. pfork even gave it "best new reissue" about a decade ago. was hoping that reassessment love would continue, but alas no. if you haven't revisited it, i highly recommend doing so. you will not be disappointed.

that was my one big glaring omission. we could talk about tons of others, but i realize it gets into those areas of more specific interests and subscenes that are beyond the scope of such lists.

All my OTM-ness will never mask the truth that I was ultimately washed out of the profession and now have to now watch all this happen from the sidelines

Blowout Comb is at #105

Austin --

Good post an hour ago. Nothing posted has offended me except when billstevejim called us lazy idle schemers. If we're going to grift, we deserve better pay.

That's also my favorite sandwich at Arbys

Arby's: For when you're wondering what it tastes like when a cow dies.

I think part of the deal with the Liz Phair revival is that her ~influence~ seems much more apparent among the current crop of indie rockers than it did in the semi-recent past. In the '90s she seemed sui generis as a young woman grappling with her place in (and outside of) the boys' club. This made her a big deal back then. Now the leading lights of (Pitchfork-approved) indie rock seem to be dominated by women, including a bunch you could argue are within Phair's lineage: Mitski, Soccer Mommy, Snail Mail, Japanese Breakfast, Phoebe Bridgers, Lucy Dacus, etc. And that boosts her critical reputation once again.

My friend's brother worked there and I guess the meat is this kind of semi frozen slurry that they pour into molds then bake

Oops Arby's not Pitchfork

I hear that's true of Pitchfork as well.

idk have you tried their festival food

xxxxpost Also the attack on her for "selling out" (which p4k participated in) feels pretty creepy these days

I feel like we're close to a post lamenting pitchfork's snubbing of MBV and Mariah

[q]Good post an hour ago. Nothing posted has offended me except when billstevejim called us lazy idle schemers. If we're going to grift, we deserve better pay.

― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 28 September 2022 18:25 (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink[q/]

With the hegemony of music coverage nowadays across the media from the big websites (NYT/Guardian etc) to the tabloid media meaning you only need a handful of publications to cover a handful of the biggest pop stars, making most music writers redundant, you will be lucky to get paid at all in the next few years.
Unless you write for niche publications, but maybe its too late for them now too as many, like P4K, tried to change into general pop sites and lost a lot of their relevance. It killed NME so why not P4K?

At our moment of greatest need, a hero emerges to heal the popist/rockist divide

30 years of Loveless. i still can't help but wonder how big MBV could have gotten if someone (such as myself) had delivered them a "radio ready" mix and master

are you ready to take your career to the next level and want your mixes to stand up today's pop hits? contact me today pic.twitter.com/aAmMQonJq1

— collin (@spiketvviewer) November 4, 2021

He's not wrong, it was called "Smashing Pumpkins"

Also the attack on her for "selling out" (which p4k participated in) feels pretty creepy these days

FWIW

Where were the top protest songs of the 90s: Todd Rundgren's "Fascist Christ", Joni Mitchell's "Sex Kills" and Lou Reed's "Sex With Your Parents (Motherfucker) Part II)"? Are these brave list-makers scared of old tit and dick?

xp some good points there - I remember when Rilo Kiley's last album got slammed several years later by everyone I know for going pop (more specifically, trying to be Buckingham/Nicks's Fleetwood Mac). It's probably my least favorite album from them, but there's like three or four songs I really enjoy that really lean into that sound, and the complaints over it sounded like a similar strain of snobbery mentioned in those comments.

"Fantasy (Remix)" is a great #1.

I honestly prefer the original - that at least does seem like a classic pop-R&B song to me. (I like ODB a lot but I don't get much chemistry or connection between them on this.)

fwiw it's worth here's some metal stuff that is incredibly glaring by its absence imo --

1. pretty much anything from Death. Not everybody loves Individual Thought Patterns but Human? Symbolic? one of those two absolutely belongs on the list
2. Morbid Angel - Blessed is of course beyond reproach, Covenant is the going-for-it moment but Domination is sicker. I love Gateways but I get that at that point the Big Moment is passed and lists like these care more about Big Moments than about whether a record's good or not so ok, but MA belongs imo
3. SEASONS IN THE FUCKING ABYSS I mean honestly
4. At the Gates, Slaughter of the Soul, you don't have to love it but it's hugely important
5. Carcass, Necrotism -- or you could pick Heartwork for all I care, but something, it's fucking Carcass, come on
6. something from Sepultura -- I hate to keep saying "important" but those guys inspire so so many people, globally, to start playing loud aggressive music, but putting that aside, their shit slams & would slam if it hadn't inspired anybody -- Chaos AD, Roots, Arise, one of these belongs on any list like this (I go for Roots but that's me)
7. either Emperor or Immortal, but there's one very good and awful reason to not want Faust from Emperor on your list but Immortal is so key to chops being a big part of the pic & they're literally the visual model on which ALL mainstream "lol black metal looks like this!!" is based, like there's innumerable dudes in BK who never get into metal & start writing about it without Immortal shooting a goofy video first
8. CALCULATING INFINITY please? did the early 2000s just not happen?

ok there's more but I gotta bail you get the idea

Do you like Obliveon's Nemesis?