pitchfork is dumb (#34985859340293849494 in a series.)

No, but at least it was unafraid to make a prat of itself, hence giving Brent DiCrescenzo a gig reviewing major albums. Now everything is sous vide

lists like this and Pitchfork in general feel like the work of school bullies who also happen to be the cool kids

― imago, Wednesday, September 28, 2022 2:18 AM (five hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Lol cmon man be serious

I mean, not that that is even preferable - some of BDC's hitjobs were lamentably stupid and even destructive to reputations, but that's because Pitchfork were already, even then, an Authority that punched down at artists. I'm just saying that they were a bit more willing to entertain reviewers' personal critical stances then; it doesn't feel it was as editorialised then; it was a chirpy, quirky zine that gained outsize power way too quickly

Is it even possible to put together a 90s canon? Critical opinions on 50s-80s have seemed relatively fixed for a while now, but 90s onwards seems to be becoming more chaotic rather than more settled.

A couple of the songs do feel like pandering to the Tik Tok generation, but the list still has plenty to offer. We're now as far from the '90s as the '90s were from the Beatles, so that's a lot of bullshit like "What's Up" to catch up with. (And sorry, including a song like "What's Up" feels like something the Eve 6 guy would post on Twitter to troll people).

Breihan's Number Ones column has been hanging in the '90s for the last several months, so I've read some thoughtful takes on a lot of stuff I don't like that have prepared me for this list. But count me among those that just don't get Mariah Carey or her placement at the top, or Bikini Kill in their top 10 slot, either. Both should be on the list somewhere, maybe even more than once, but not there.

lol i may be way off

You weren't.

i am not calling its individual writers bullies, nor am I claiming that they are not discriminated against on the basis of identity in their regular lives, but to my mind, pitchfork itself is the bully and its contributors participate in the bullying.

this is a terrible analogy and you should drop it, jesus christ

“by making a list of r&b bangers you have punched down at boredoms” foh

aaliyah’s “are you that somebody?” would probably be the most agreeable number one pick

old-p4k did a lot of punching down and bullying. I wouldn't mind more pans if they're actually warranted not that they seem to do much these days anyway

the list feels a bit triangulated but it's fairly representative of the tastes of 30-something post-hipsters and probably younger people who like 90s music. thank god we're in a place now where liking nirvana and mariah is just a normal part of liking music and not something that has to be justified

I'd like more diversity and more leftfield picks but the specific editorial pov that has been diluted in this case was an even more boring and narrow one than this

I don't think the pre-90s canons are all that settled but there may be some more consensus on what those decades meant and were about (which is always worth troubling) while the 90s is still being fought over a lot more

for one, it would’ve mollified the rabid contingent of doctor doolittle super fans

self xp lol

I'd love to see a '90s movie list out there that puts "Dr. Doolittle" at number one.

Honestly as soon as this list came out I scrolled up as fast as possible to see if "Are You That Somebody" was at number one, but when I saw it at number 3 (right?) I thought, well, close enough, I'm satisfied.

Or maybe Loveless takes the top spot back from OK Computer.

― MarkoP,

ding ding ding

All zoomers need to know: 80s = "Doolittle." 90s = "Dr. Doolittle."

https://pitchfork.com/features/lists-and-guides/the-best-albums-of-the-1990s/

Punching down & bullying don't make much sense to me as concepts in this context, but that flopson post table quoted is good. I didn't really get the "poptimism 2.0" thesis (though revisiting that thread, Whiney's op is p lucid), but this list clarifies it to some degree.

xp uh oh

violator is about 100 spots too low. and attributed to the wrong year

ok Hole above Nirvana is a strong challops, kudos pitchfork.com

Perhaps more current contributors owe it to themselves as paid influencers to bother listening through the entirety of previous lists before settling on their choices. But they don't, because they're lazy.

― billstevejim, Wednesday, September 28, 2022 2:43 AM (six hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

I logged in just to tell you to fuck off

― like, I’m eating an elephant head (katherine), Wednesday, September 28, 2022 2:47 AM (six hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

I cannot describe the warm nostalgic glow this exchange gave me but I thank you so much

I'm actually a bit surprised that Liz Phair is as high as she is on both of these lists. For whatever reason, I don't hear as much about that album as I did back in the 2000s.

As I’ve said previously, I like a lot of songs on this list, but there are few surprises, and the poptimism-as-hegemony element to it is real— why do we need this list? Wouldn’t a list of forgotten or poorly remembered grunge or riot grrl bands be more interesting? Is rehashing radio playlists and throwing in an occasional pick from CMJ charts really a good look at a decade? I just don’t think it is! It feels more attuned to algorithms of now than what the decade was actually like.

(Also, I didn’t even realize that the other SY pick was “Kool Thing”—- might be the most irritating song in that record, if they really wanted to pick a non-Thurston track they could have at least picked “Mote,” which is one of Lee’s crowning achievements in that band)

ok Hole above Nirvana is a strong challops

elsewhere maybe but I feel like that's pretty much ilm canon, right? (as it should be.)

yeah I'm not even necessarily disagreeing, just recognizing the annoyance that will cause (I think?). I haven't heard either album in at least 20 years. For nostalgic reasons, I'd prefer to listen to Nirvana myself, but I'd pick In Utero way before Nevermind anyway

Siamese Dream over Loveless would be my kind of trolling.

Will Oldham being persona non grata on both lists is the clearest sign they want to distance themselves from ye olde Pitchfork.

That might be the first time I've seen *anybody* praise the first Cranberries album. I mean, maybe it's good, for all I know, but I thought conventional wisdom had whittled it down to "Dreams" (whereas acts like the Sundays or Sinead get the full-album love).

Janet Jackson feels like one of the biggest beneficiaries of the site's current editorial vision: three songs on the songs list and Velvet Rope in the top 10 albums. Hard to imagine that result even just a few years ago.

xp
I See a Darkness was on the songs list

Ah I missed it somehow, thanks.

first cranberries album is great top to bottom

i just went through the whole list and can’t remember if the sundays made it tho

loads of people have always loved/praised that cranberries album! xps

First Cranberries album rules! I still put it on at least a few times a year.

it was too much for me to hope for them to include imani coppola's chupacabra which is way overdue for the sunday review treatment

I'm a little perplexed that Rid Of Me is the PJ album pick, not to mention really high on the list with none of her others placing.

Also interesting/odd to me that Dummy is so high compared to Maxinquaye and Blue Lines (and that BL was picked not Protection or Mezzanine)

"What's Up?" only made the list because the Four Non-Blondes drummer later joined the Loud Family, kudos on such a subtle tribute to Scott Miller

it is ultimately an Authority and it operates From On High

I don't know, it seems to me that anytime websites publish these lists nowadays, the discourse is 90% critique, 10% "OK I'll listen to that", and 0% "the Gods have spoken". Maybe it was always that way, did 'zines bother to criticize the lists that Rolling Stone or Spin published in the 1980s?

lol at the idea Pitchfork would even consider a Loud Family album for their list

I don't know what it says about either me or the list, but at a quick count I think I owned 70 of these as actual physical media during the 1990s themselves. (Still own most of them I guess, in bins of CDs in my basement.)

Noticed a few album blurbs by critics who were writing for mainstream pubs in the 1990s: Simon Reynolds, Will Hermes, Alan Light.

I'm only four albums in but The Bodyguard?? Wow

People keep accusing Pfork of being too poptimist but they rated Liz Phair over Alanis Morissette in both tracks and album polls which is both wrong and indie-cred-damaged.

I'm only four albums in but The Bodyguard?? Wow

― you can see me from westbury white horse, Wednesday, September 28, 2022 9:09 AM (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

Not only that, but a reference to the Kenny G song as a "worthwhile" non-Whitney cut.

All they had to do was include Sing To God and I'd be recanting every word right now

there's nothing that the 90s kids loved more than kenny g and joe cocker

there's nothing that the 90s kids loved more than kenny g and joe cocker

one more time for the folks in the back

lol that Fear of a Black Planet ranks lower than live through this. Nice to see American Water high in the list though.

lol at garbage above gbv

Main thing I'm perplexed about is the Gang Starr-oatmeal cookie comparison.

Honestly not surprised people like the Cranberries album, it's that I don't think I've ever seen it on a list before.

Lil Kim- Hardcore as the 8th best Hip Hop album of the 90s is something else

Jason King wrote The Bodyguard blurb, and I tend to trust him on R&B matters (though whether that soundtrack counts as R&B is another matter).

Yeah Violator for 1993 stood out for me as well. I don't get how these things don't get noticed.