pitchfork is dumb (#34985859340293849494 in a series.)

Actually, here's how the editor-in-chief described the process:

Pitchfork’s staff spent more than seven months poring over thousands of albums and songs in the making of this package, a series of lists and interviews that try to encapsulate some of our favorite music of a formative decade. The process included several rounds of voting between staff and contributors, and hours upon hours of “listening rooms” where the staff debated the merits of one song against another. There were more spreadsheets and impassioned Slack debates than anyone would like to admit, extensive conversations about the “critical pick” vs. the “fan favorite” vs. the “holistically beloved.”

The result is a massive amount of incredible music, represented by hundreds of artists and carefully considered by 112 critics from our staff, contributor pool, and writers and editors who influenced the discourse around music in the ’90s in real time.

And yet no time to fact-check an R.E.M. blurb!

Never ever been a Mariah fan, which has always bothered me because I like at least some songs by almost every other pop diva. She just doesn't connect for me. But also, it seems particularly weird to name as the best song of the '90s a track that relies heavily on a familiar sample from a classic '80s tune.

why

Taking hits from the 80s, but make em sound so crazy, might be the most 90s thing about it.

Fantasy mostly just makes me want to listen to GoL - not quite pulling off the 'learn to hear the sample anew' trick for me personally

idk if switching from lots of indie to lots of pop/r&b/rap is good or bad or whatever, but it does indicate a publication with a less distinct cultural voice which is bad

xposts Yeah with "Fantasy" I think it's that the sample isn't really reimagined or anything, the source material isn't remade (the way it is in Missy's "The Rain" e.g.), it's just appropriated and plopped down into the song.

I agree that ODB is great on the remix tho. He's pretty '90s.

whiney lmao

Whiney as Vicar of Challops this afternoon.

But I’m also just someone who has never really understood the love for vapid brainwash music that sells millions of records, and resent the fact that I’m considered a “bad fag” or “anti-populist” when I say so. Sorry!

― broccoli rabe thomas (the table is the table),

can you identify for this fag what is Vapid Brainwash Music so I can compile a list?

Bikini kill was probably the biggest punk band after Fugazi in the 90’s but y’all keep it up with the sexist angles it’s a good fit

This totally rips https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dO2nWMPRayI

Xpost a good fit for the pitchfork thread I meant to say

Never ever been a Mariah fan, which has always bothered me because I like at least some songs by almost every other pop diva. She just doesn't connect for me. But also, it seems particularly weird to name as the best song of the '90s a track that relies heavily on a familiar sample from a classic '80s tune.

― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Tuesday, September 27, 2022

I don't get this take at all.

this is like complaining about most hip-hop

I've noticed a few people point out that U2 are missing, but they weren't on the old one either! (If the albums list goes to 250 as well though no Achtung Baby would definitely surprise me).

"Rhymes Like Dimes", that was Alfred. Good work!

Bikini kill was probably the biggest punk band after Fugazi in the 90’s but y’all keep it up with the sexist angles it’s a good fit

women can dislike shitty punk too

there are a whole lot of female-fronted rock acts on this list that are far better than bikini kill & i would have been much happier to see in the top 10

hence Mariah Carey topping the list

this is like complaining about most hip-hop

Well I mean I wouldn't put Puffy's "I'll Be Missing You" on this list either. It doesn't have to do with using a sample, it has to do with doing something with it. Obviously ymmv but "Fantasy" has always felt like it's on the lazier end of the spectrum to me.

(But also nothing else about the song sticks with me, and maybe that's just me. Mariah is not my jam. I literally only think of the sample when I think of the song.)

"fantasy" is a better use of the "genius of love" groove than "genius of love" was

lol hard disagree.

But on to the real outrage, which is that there is no Suede on this list.

Whiney as Vicar of Challops this afternoon.

― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, September 27, 2022 6:52 PM (forty-eight minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Anyone old enough to remember the '90s knows that "Lukewarm post-post-grunge major label limpdicks Third Eye Blind suck shit" is not exactly like saying "Ringo was the most talented Beatle" gfoh

I MUST download a translator

Bikini kill was probably the biggest punk band after Fugazi in the 90’s but y’all keep it up with the sexist angles it’s a good fit

"fantasy" is a better use of the "genius of love" groove than "genius of love" was

"Genius Of Love" the song is 40% good and 60% awful ("JAAAAAAMES BROWWWWWN! JAAAAAMES BROWWWWWN!" — yes, good idea, I'll go listen to James Brown instead of you idiots). "Fantasy" (original and remix) is much, much better.

"Rebel Girl" has had an incredibly long tail. Anyone who was THERE, MAN might have opinions, but in the last 20 years it's basically become a standard. It's video games and PRESTIGE TEE VEE shows and shit

I'm not necessarily interested in whether much is or isn't being 'done' with a big liberal sample. Using a big undigested chunk from a great song in a new track can potentially ensure you land somewhere just as good. So for me it comes down to much preferring the mix of lovely whispered verses and goofy (and somehow not incongruent) staccato raps of GoL to what Mariah and ODB do. I do appreciate how Fantasy sort of recontextualises it as G-funk though - a bit like northern soul staple Sliced Tomatoes suddenly becoming surf rock when used in The Rockafeller Skank.

xpost Joan Jett walked onstage to "Rebel Girl" when I saw her a few weeks ago, which is a pretty solid endorsement fwiw.

But on to the real outrage, which is that there is no Suede on this list.

If there's any justice Dog Man Star will be number one tomorrow

ha literally listening to DMS right now, I've been in a Suede mood today.

I worked at a theater where we had "Frantz - From Genius Of Love Francois Ozon" on the marquee at one point. Everyone samples in their own way.

xp It's my joint favourite album ever but I predict it may not get a look in

I can't see Loveless and OK Computer dropping from their current top rankings but you never know.

there are a whole lot of female-fronted rock acts on this list that are far better than bikini kill & i would have been much happier to see in the top 10

Fair enough. I don’t think any of the other bands (including Rancid and Green Day) had the impact that impact Bikini Kill had/has. It’s not even close. Lol fat wreck chords? Home of 88 Fingers Louie?

the album list will likely be more interesting because that's how things go

I guess it’s ok to dislike them but they are easily more impactful than Team Dresch, Bratmobile, Huggy Bear, Excuse 17, Heavens to Betsy, etc. it’s fine if you don’t dig them but none of these other bands really belong in the top 10. S-K are the only band that even had close to the same impact—it’s not even close though really.

the album list will likely be more interesting because that's how things go

I thought album lists in general are less interesting because things tend to canonize a lot more and follow trends. Tracks /singles lists are lot more wild and unpredictable.

I can't see Loveless and OK Computer dropping from their current top rankings but you never know.

I could see something like Illmatic unseating one of those.

Or maybe Loveless takes the top spot back from OK Computer.

#1 shocker = Suddenly, Tammy!

_ there are a whole lot of female-fronted rock acts on this list that are far better than bikini kill & i would have been much happier to see in the top 10
_
Fair enough. I don’t think any of the other bands (including Rancid and Green Day) had the impact that impact Bikini Kill had/has. It’s not even close. Lol fat wreck chords? Home of 88 Fingers Louie?

The canon can change over time due to slow burners and cult classics, though. Nick Drake is a classic example.

I'd be thrilled to see Laughing Stock in the top album spot but it's not going to happen.

re:albums Yeah I was thinking Illmatic or 36 Chambers might sneak in there

xp Lol was just thinking 'I hope Laughing Stock is still above Spiderland'

you ppl are all insane

still happy to know you

My wild guess is that Björk wins the album poll.

True. There is a chance that something like Duster will show up on the list somewhere.

Unfortunately there are also albums I know that won't be on there because their voting form for the 90s Readers Poll wouldn't have them on the autocomplete. So I know, for example, that Pygmalion won't be on there.