The Beths

There's definitely a type of listener that values innovation, and appreciates bands/albums that expand their horizons ("I don't hear anything I haven't heard before"). And for this type of listener, I can see where The Beths just aren't exciting.

It's a little harder for me to get in the headspace of someone who's repelled simply by a familiar chord progression, but I'm sure that they comprise like 50% of ILM.

I doubt there's a real life backlash. The backlash around here is pretty much me, and apparently I don't have ears.

I guess you're all wrong about Silence is Golden. I said it's a pretty good tune, so it must be rubbish.

i think it's fine to have preferences. but as Brad alluded to, you felt the need to do a patronizing bit about how this band would be a "good high school band". there's not really a need to present your criticisms as some extension of your superior, more sophisticated musical tastes. if anything, the fact that somebody might call this music "ordinary" speaks to the wizardry of the songwriting and arrangements. to me it also suggests that people who would say that wouldn't have really been listening

I woke up on a 26th side of the bed yesterday in an attempt to scientifically determine if my bed is a problem, and the album did sound better. I think it’s just really hard music to listen to when you don’t feel great, right now. I feel that way about most of their music and much of pop music in general. I only want to listen to gravel sifting through a long descending tunnel that leads to the bottom of the ocean

― Karl Malone

speaking as a fellow depressed person yeah music doesn't sound as good when i'm depressed

honestly this is the big reason i've only listened to _dots and loops_ all year, i don't _enjoy_ music, i don't enjoy _anything_, the best i can get out of a record is to hear it and say "yes! this is why life is terrible!"

which was why i liked crying when listening to "2am" and why i am listening to saturn's son right now. i am not crying but it is really painful to listen to and i don't think i deserve to listen to music that is any more melodic than this.

Xp lol budo, when did I ever claim to have "superior, more sophisticated musical tastes"?! I like some pretty basic, dumb pop music and I'm not at all ashamed to admit it. This isn't a case of rockist v poptimist snobbery.

Look, I don't like The Beths; they don't move me; I don't think they're special; and I find some of their music actively irritating. That doesn't make me a snob, I just have a different take to you. If some of my rehetoric seems hyperbolic, so does some of the praise lavished on The Beths. But you don't see me getting upset at others having different opinions.

My rhetoric was aimed at the band's music. Yours is aimed at me. I find your "you're not really listening" argument insulting and condescending. I have listened, multiple times, because often music I don't get right away grows on me. Not so The Beths. Just because I hear dullness where you hear wizardry, doesn't make my opinions less valid. And it certainly shouldn't be cause for ad hominems.

I'm not judging anyone who loves The Beths, so why are you judging me so harshly for not loving then? And more importantly, why do you even care what I think?!

I'm in the not-getting-really-getting-it camp but it's more just to do with my expectations having read about jazz-schoolers-take-on-power-pop and not really getting that (at least in the way I wanted it). It's not really fair to them, the jazz school background is basically irrelevant (other than that's where they formed?) and to be honest it's probably more impressive that they're not trying to sneak in Coltrane changes or whatever.

I'm somewhat chaotic good, Imago-aligned in tastes but have a big soft spot for a certain type of early-mid-90 bands like That Dog, The Breeders, Apples in Stereo etc. so I'm definitely into the idea of someone Max Tundra-ing that style but I just don't think that's what they're going for and I don't they've ever really sold themselves that way as such.

But yeah, because it *is* quite close to something that would be my thing that the narcissism-of-small-differences gets amplified into full uncanny valley gag-reflex opining of wondering why I don't like them more. So maybe that's what's happening with other people? Otherwise, it's very easy just ignore them like 99% of all other music you're not into?

I do really like a couple of songs off the first album (Future Me Hates Me, Uptown Girl). A Passing Rain is kind of more in that specific niche and - despite it being probably the least-"clever" song - it's probably my favourite one on here.

Basically I'm more of a Whipsmart person rather than Whitechocolatespaceegg one and while they occasionally dip into the former, I think their interests are more in the latter.

What makes The Beths stand out to so many is probably a sophistication, subtlety and taste-level in dealing with the type of material they do - ie. what makes it *special* for fans - that just isn't going to be apparent to those who aren't into it in general.

i think people took issue with ghost club's critique because it was quite overstated - reading it you'd get the impression they're basically just capable of an ok weezer impression and nothing much more

Ufo, I find it interesting how my critique rubbed people the wrong way. I've read much more stinging criticism of bands on ILX, as well as mindless "band X is shit" posts, which have barely raised an eyebrow.

I don't think it was my rhetoric alone. There's something about this band that inspires a defensive loyalty - probably because they operate in a genre that appears essy to dismiss at face value, so any criticism must be met with vigorous defence.

I get it, people are taking the critique personally - as if criticism of The Beths' music amounts to criticism of their tastes, which I didn't intend. I certainly didn't anticipate my original post would cause this reaction. It's actually been pretty cool to see how fiercely protective The Beths' fans are. You have to really earn that kind of loyalty, so more power to them.

I can see where The Ghost Club is coming from and the way it was expressed was fine - frank criticism is better than treating everything cautiously and trying to preserve everyone's sensibilities (you can't).

So, I certainly like the sound and craft of the new album, at worst it's super pleasant. But I must admit their songs have a similar tone and go for similar crescendos and climaxes - and that involves some of the band's strong points (Elizabeth's voice, drums). Like going over a pleasure point over and over until it's unnerving, or like an excess of comfort. Maybe explaining some of the mood resistance to being Beths-uplifted. It does not mean they are ordinary, they're not, but that the effect they are going for is a little too narrowly perfected and can wear out through repetition ?

With that said, I'm fine with light uplifting hum-along punkish twee pop and I am not sure what else I would like them to do. It's a niche. You can always turn to another band that has coined a different tone. Like idk, Wet Leg.

I will fight and die for The Beths if there's a Wet Leg comparison on the table tbh

My main points of comparison to establish how good The Beths are would be Camera Obscura and Paramore, but maybe that only makes sense to me.

I'd say that negative criticism of any music that people are prepared to say they like on ILX has gone a little out of fashion, as people are ultra-keen to not seem like party-pooping dicks. What there is, however, is a disparity in attention paid. The Beths have crossed an unnamed Rubicon and they're now a Discoursed Band, so even if people are daring to criticise them, they're at least talking about them. I wish some of the obscure stuff I listen to gets even a slating on here, but it's tumbleweeds

Now Wet Leg I do really like! Their songs are good fun, and they don't take themselves too seriously. Shamelessly lifting a Bowie riff was ballsy af. And most importantly, Angelica is a great song.

(The Beths are much better musicians though.)

So far there may be a dividing line here; Wet Leg do little for me and they have at least one song (“Oh No”) that I loathe.

'Shamelessly lifting a Bowie riff' is a great way to summarise the level of art Wet Leg are operating at, and also the panic at having to do a full album after the first single somehow went massive. At least The Beths make music.

I like the idea of "band that was not even making music somehow goes massive" and that it's imago firing shots at non-music :)

Preliminary dozen listens to this and it's "Passing Rain" lodged in my head.

Found it interesting that the Pitchfork review compared "Silence is Golden" to Life Without Buildings. I don't hear that, but the Beths are the first "guitar band" to kick me square in the guts this hard since LWB (who i came to very late.. like 2015). The idea of having to think any harder on this band is honestly really intriguing to hear about.

It's not even one of my favourites on the record but who else could pull off "Knees Deep"? Honest question.

why do new bands want their drums to sound this way? it's a major league bummer for me on lots of new stuff, i still dig this but it really sucks. i guess the strokes are to blame?

god "silence is golden"...the groove is bracing enough to rival any post-hardcore act from a couple decades.

Found it interesting that the Pitchfork review compared "Silence is Golden" to Life Without Buildings. I don't hear that,

yeah i don't really hear it, maybe in the repetition in the vocals? the actual sound of the song is more like...refused?

https://butterthechildren.bandcamp.com/album/true-crime

might appeal to the beths fans, digging it

Finally saw the Beths live. Their best songs were great (strong vocals, harmonies, ) while some cuts were just ok

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vt0J3IEYkIg

really great performance

glad they're playing "jump rope gazers" on this tour. thx for posting ufo!

New single! They left it off the album as it didn't fit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEO3vmxjoa0

Nice, I think that might be my favorite Tiny Desk since they had Koffee on.
I guess they had to skew towards mellower material given the setting, but those are their best songs anyway

Just got back from seeing them in Bristol. What a tight and thoroughly likeable band. Appalled that my compatriots couldn’t even bring themselves to pogo seeing as though it’s mainly 160bpm bangers but maybe that’s a generational thing. Definitely go catch them if you get the chance.

I was there too...loved it.

It was almost as amazing to think through what they didn't play - Not Running, Happy Unhappy, Whatever, Mars The God of War, Shy of Sure, 2AM - as to marvel at the quality of the set they actually performed. Such a strong catalogue already!

Ah Willl I didn't know they were playing. Would have been pogoing with you

They finally won a Silver Scroll (NZ's annual songwriting award) for 'Expert In A Dying Field' after being finalists for 'Future Me Hates Me' in 2018, 'Happy Unhappy' in 2019, and 'Jump Rope Gazers' in 2021 - I think if they hadn't won this year they'd equal the Phoenix Foundation's record for most nominations / zero wins.

Acceptance speech:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efMWxRN9H4k

Downbeat cover by Samara Alofa at the awards ceremony:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjCNyPs-ek4

(see also: jazz cover of 'Happy Unhappy' by Bella Kalolo from 2019, electro-pop cover of 'Future Me Hates Me' by French Concession from 2018, nothing from 2021 due to Covid)

Radio New Zealand interview about this song (drummer talks about listening to early 90s Kiwi pop-rock stuff like Crowded House and the Mutton Birds re: the drum sound):
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/music101/audio/2018908214/anatomy-of-a-scroll-the-beths-expert-in-a-dying-field