The Beths

the idea that a band that has put out tracks like "silence is golden" and "out of sight" is just making passionless paint-by-numbers power pop is ridiculous

of course they're not doing anything particularly new but the sheer craft is on another level compared to most in the genre, even contemporary indie rock more broadly

& do not at all understand where any of the complaints about the vocals are coming from

Good to see some dissenting opinions in a thread that had started to become a bit of an echo chamber for us stans.

I do agree with Brad that a lot of these critiques sound like complaints about the genre as much as complaints this specific band. Power pop isn't really a hotbed of innovation - it definitely places more value of good execution of ideas that have already been done to death. It's comfort food.

I have a hard time describing this band to ppl bcz on paper they DO seem sort of paint-by-numbers but there is a je ne sais quoi about them, the harmonies are so perfect, the melodies are so perfect, they make so many smart and efficient decisions in their songwriting and instrument playing. They’re kind of like The New Pornographers where they do something seemingly simple but they do it so fucking well that when you step back and go “wait, surely there are tons of other bands that sound like this but WHO?” you can’t come up with anything bcz no one is doing it nearly as well as they are.

otm damn

this band is the epitome of a bolt of something indefinable that elevates songs from competent to great

lol just the other day I described this band to a friend with the exact words “new zealand new pornographers”

I’m not necessarily the world’s biggest New Pornographers fan, but I’ve always thought of their songwriting as fairly sui generis.

“2am” really moved me. God damn.

I think what they do that’s hard to define (and maybe I’m still not defining it) is use the most intense sonic dynamics of punk and power pop to build drama. Not just a sense of drama; drama. And it elevates the lyrical content, like how some Motown lyrics might have looked simplistic on paper, but when that sound hits the emotion hits for your whole life (not saying they’re in Motown territory, just an example).

To me they're loosely kind of part of the continuum of everything old is new again. My brain immediately also says, hey, there are a million bands like this. And there may be, for all I know, but my brain goes there because I am old and there *did* used to be a million bands like this ... 30 years ago. A lot of the Teenbeat/Simple Machines stuff, some Sarah stuff (maybe like Heavenly), and so on, all the way through, I dunno, stuff like Dressy Bessy or whatever. Same with a band like Beach Bunny, who I also like. Of course, being from New Zealand, the Beths are part of a parallel continuum of all the great guitar pop bands from that country, too.

they are a phenomenal live band but i forgot my earplugs

opening act hans pucket, who pearce has produced for, were also excellent

Well "2am" just ripped my heart out and stomped on it. I'm going through a painful breakup right now, the "hard to let go" kind, and it hits pretty close to dead center. Pretty close.

Listened to the album 3 or 4 times yesterday, it's a really good album in the sense that almost every song is good and they work together musically and thematically. Stronger links and weaker links, sure, but they're operating at a high level of craft.

Stevie Deux otm

i have to say, as a mega-stan, i appreciate where Ghost Club is coming from with the paint-by-numbers, the lack of broad range, the "still listening to the records they loved when they were 13" comments. i don't agree w/ the conclusion, but i can at least see how those could be valid thoughts.

and i also think Stevie hit the nail on the head here: "this band is the epitome of a bolt of something indefinable that elevates songs from competent to great"

last thought: it is *highly* predictable that the backlash would begin now, with this third album coming out and getting significantly more attention. they were still a pretty small band/draw heading into the pandemic and the release of Jump Rope Gazers! they had a whole American tour booked in small rooms that got canceled, and now the venues have at least doubled in size, maybe more.

the only bad thing about the beths is that second album cover art

Is there a backlash in real life?

I woke up on a 26th side of the bed yesterday in an attempt to scientifically determine if my bed is a problem, and the album did sound better. I think it’s just really hard music to listen to when you don’t feel great, right now. I feel that way about most of their music and much of pop music in general. I only want to listen to gravel sifting through a long descending tunnel that leads to the bottom of the ocean

If a bunch of people on earth feel that way and there’s a huge backlash against music with properly formed chord progressions, please send them my way. I’m that house that smells like garbage, over there

I only want to listen to gravel sifting through a long descending tunnel that leads to the bottom of the ocean

Try this, KM: https://markmolnar.bandcamp.com/album/mark-molnar-saturns-son

Anyway, after a couple of listens, the album is very good! Good to see them branching out a little within the relatively narrow confines of the genre - more solos, more sonic variety, a little more harmonic complexity (thought I was hearing secondary dominants?).

I'm probably in the minority of really liking the second album cover, and not caring much for the cover of the new one. But that's mostly because I don't really like the choice of having big white text on top of a fairly bright and light looking image, and I don't like the out of focus flowers on top of fish. Whereas I as really like the shade of orange on the second cover.

Think this might be their best of the three? Chris L otm with his invocation of "drama": the band is super talented at assembling things in a way that feels exciting.

Looks like this show/tour film wasn't posted yet, it's a nice time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-JyAYfgC6c

do sund4r thanking you :D

somehow “xp” was autocorrected to “do”

I agree with Josh that there used to be more bands that give you this same feeling. I think over a long period of time, not just in music but in several of the arts, there's been a turn toward emphasizing self-expression more than craft. That is, people are more interested in getting their ideas out and creating idiosyncratic little objects rather than working in the continuum of a particular genre or tradition. This might just be a consequence of more voices being heard and seeking to break down "traditional" forms of art, or it might be something else. But The Beths seem like a group that's interested in refining the strengths of their particular genre to create an emotional impact, although I don't know whether or not they'd see it that way.

obvious chord progressions

There's not enough little surprises

thanks for proving to the board you don't have ears

There's definitely a type of listener that values innovation, and appreciates bands/albums that expand their horizons ("I don't hear anything I haven't heard before"). And for this type of listener, I can see where The Beths just aren't exciting.

It's a little harder for me to get in the headspace of someone who's repelled simply by a familiar chord progression, but I'm sure that they comprise like 50% of ILM.

I doubt there's a real life backlash. The backlash around here is pretty much me, and apparently I don't have ears.

I guess you're all wrong about Silence is Golden. I said it's a pretty good tune, so it must be rubbish.

i think it's fine to have preferences. but as Brad alluded to, you felt the need to do a patronizing bit about how this band would be a "good high school band". there's not really a need to present your criticisms as some extension of your superior, more sophisticated musical tastes. if anything, the fact that somebody might call this music "ordinary" speaks to the wizardry of the songwriting and arrangements. to me it also suggests that people who would say that wouldn't have really been listening

I woke up on a 26th side of the bed yesterday in an attempt to scientifically determine if my bed is a problem, and the album did sound better. I think it’s just really hard music to listen to when you don’t feel great, right now. I feel that way about most of their music and much of pop music in general. I only want to listen to gravel sifting through a long descending tunnel that leads to the bottom of the ocean

― Karl Malone

speaking as a fellow depressed person yeah music doesn't sound as good when i'm depressed

honestly this is the big reason i've only listened to _dots and loops_ all year, i don't _enjoy_ music, i don't enjoy _anything_, the best i can get out of a record is to hear it and say "yes! this is why life is terrible!"

which was why i liked crying when listening to "2am" and why i am listening to saturn's son right now. i am not crying but it is really painful to listen to and i don't think i deserve to listen to music that is any more melodic than this.

Xp lol budo, when did I ever claim to have "superior, more sophisticated musical tastes"?! I like some pretty basic, dumb pop music and I'm not at all ashamed to admit it. This isn't a case of rockist v poptimist snobbery.

Look, I don't like The Beths; they don't move me; I don't think they're special; and I find some of their music actively irritating. That doesn't make me a snob, I just have a different take to you. If some of my rehetoric seems hyperbolic, so does some of the praise lavished on The Beths. But you don't see me getting upset at others having different opinions.

My rhetoric was aimed at the band's music. Yours is aimed at me. I find your "you're not really listening" argument insulting and condescending. I have listened, multiple times, because often music I don't get right away grows on me. Not so The Beths. Just because I hear dullness where you hear wizardry, doesn't make my opinions less valid. And it certainly shouldn't be cause for ad hominems.

I'm not judging anyone who loves The Beths, so why are you judging me so harshly for not loving then? And more importantly, why do you even care what I think?!

I'm in the not-getting-really-getting-it camp but it's more just to do with my expectations having read about jazz-schoolers-take-on-power-pop and not really getting that (at least in the way I wanted it). It's not really fair to them, the jazz school background is basically irrelevant (other than that's where they formed?) and to be honest it's probably more impressive that they're not trying to sneak in Coltrane changes or whatever.

I'm somewhat chaotic good, Imago-aligned in tastes but have a big soft spot for a certain type of early-mid-90 bands like That Dog, The Breeders, Apples in Stereo etc. so I'm definitely into the idea of someone Max Tundra-ing that style but I just don't think that's what they're going for and I don't they've ever really sold themselves that way as such.

But yeah, because it *is* quite close to something that would be my thing that the narcissism-of-small-differences gets amplified into full uncanny valley gag-reflex opining of wondering why I don't like them more. So maybe that's what's happening with other people? Otherwise, it's very easy just ignore them like 99% of all other music you're not into?

I do really like a couple of songs off the first album (Future Me Hates Me, Uptown Girl). A Passing Rain is kind of more in that specific niche and - despite it being probably the least-"clever" song - it's probably my favourite one on here.

Basically I'm more of a Whipsmart person rather than Whitechocolatespaceegg one and while they occasionally dip into the former, I think their interests are more in the latter.

What makes The Beths stand out to so many is probably a sophistication, subtlety and taste-level in dealing with the type of material they do - ie. what makes it *special* for fans - that just isn't going to be apparent to those who aren't into it in general.

i think people took issue with ghost club's critique because it was quite overstated - reading it you'd get the impression they're basically just capable of an ok weezer impression and nothing much more

Ufo, I find it interesting how my critique rubbed people the wrong way. I've read much more stinging criticism of bands on ILX, as well as mindless "band X is shit" posts, which have barely raised an eyebrow.

I don't think it was my rhetoric alone. There's something about this band that inspires a defensive loyalty - probably because they operate in a genre that appears essy to dismiss at face value, so any criticism must be met with vigorous defence.

I get it, people are taking the critique personally - as if criticism of The Beths' music amounts to criticism of their tastes, which I didn't intend. I certainly didn't anticipate my original post would cause this reaction. It's actually been pretty cool to see how fiercely protective The Beths' fans are. You have to really earn that kind of loyalty, so more power to them.

I can see where The Ghost Club is coming from and the way it was expressed was fine - frank criticism is better than treating everything cautiously and trying to preserve everyone's sensibilities (you can't).

So, I certainly like the sound and craft of the new album, at worst it's super pleasant. But I must admit their songs have a similar tone and go for similar crescendos and climaxes - and that involves some of the band's strong points (Elizabeth's voice, drums). Like going over a pleasure point over and over until it's unnerving, or like an excess of comfort. Maybe explaining some of the mood resistance to being Beths-uplifted. It does not mean they are ordinary, they're not, but that the effect they are going for is a little too narrowly perfected and can wear out through repetition ?

With that said, I'm fine with light uplifting hum-along punkish twee pop and I am not sure what else I would like them to do. It's a niche. You can always turn to another band that has coined a different tone. Like idk, Wet Leg.

I will fight and die for The Beths if there's a Wet Leg comparison on the table tbh

My main points of comparison to establish how good The Beths are would be Camera Obscura and Paramore, but maybe that only makes sense to me.

I'd say that negative criticism of any music that people are prepared to say they like on ILX has gone a little out of fashion, as people are ultra-keen to not seem like party-pooping dicks. What there is, however, is a disparity in attention paid. The Beths have crossed an unnamed Rubicon and they're now a Discoursed Band, so even if people are daring to criticise them, they're at least talking about them. I wish some of the obscure stuff I listen to gets even a slating on here, but it's tumbleweeds

Now Wet Leg I do really like! Their songs are good fun, and they don't take themselves too seriously. Shamelessly lifting a Bowie riff was ballsy af. And most importantly, Angelica is a great song.

(The Beths are much better musicians though.)

So far there may be a dividing line here; Wet Leg do little for me and they have at least one song (“Oh No”) that I loathe.

'Shamelessly lifting a Bowie riff' is a great way to summarise the level of art Wet Leg are operating at, and also the panic at having to do a full album after the first single somehow went massive. At least The Beths make music.

I like the idea of "band that was not even making music somehow goes massive" and that it's imago firing shots at non-music :)

Preliminary dozen listens to this and it's "Passing Rain" lodged in my head.

Found it interesting that the Pitchfork review compared "Silence is Golden" to Life Without Buildings. I don't hear that, but the Beths are the first "guitar band" to kick me square in the guts this hard since LWB (who i came to very late.. like 2015). The idea of having to think any harder on this band is honestly really intriguing to hear about.

It's not even one of my favourites on the record but who else could pull off "Knees Deep"? Honest question.

why do new bands want their drums to sound this way? it's a major league bummer for me on lots of new stuff, i still dig this but it really sucks. i guess the strokes are to blame?

god "silence is golden"...the groove is bracing enough to rival any post-hardcore act from a couple decades.

Found it interesting that the Pitchfork review compared "Silence is Golden" to Life Without Buildings. I don't hear that,

yeah i don't really hear it, maybe in the repetition in the vocals? the actual sound of the song is more like...refused?

https://butterthechildren.bandcamp.com/album/true-crime

might appeal to the beths fans, digging it

Finally saw the Beths live. Their best songs were great (strong vocals, harmonies, ) while some cuts were just ok

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vt0J3IEYkIg

really great performance

glad they're playing "jump rope gazers" on this tour. thx for posting ufo!