Post a controversial music opinion

Please Kill Me came out in 1996 and upended all of that, bc Patti Smith came out of it looking kind of sketchy if not fraudulent and Blondie came out looking great.

The Beths are totally overhyped and overrated. I'm a Kiwi and I'm sorry, it's so disheartening to see their competent but ultimately bland power pop attract so much acclaim, when there's so much more interesting music happening here. It's getting really infuriating that everyone thinks of NZ as the home of Aldous Harding (yawn), The Beths (double yawn) and Lorde (diminishing returns), or some island of nostalgic indie halcyon days that peaked with Flying Nun.

Where's the love for Church and AP, or Wax Chattels, or Fazerdaze, or Tami Neilson, to give just a handful of examples off the top of my head?!

No idea what you're talking about. New Zealand is where Beastwars and Ulcerate and Organectomy and Rendered Helpless come from.

I've never know a moment when Parallel Lines wasn't revered as much as Horses, Marquee Moon, etc.

"Side 2 of Ralf und Florian is one of the most blissed-out sides of vinyl in existence"

There was a period back in the late 1990s when HMV seemed to he hip to bootlegs, and there was a widely-available bootleg of that album on the "Germanofon" label:
https://www.discogs.com/release/303652-Kraftwerk-Ralf-Florian

I still have my copy. One day I'll bring out all of my compact discs and tell the local kids that I bought them in a shop. There were shelves of records and compact discs. But no vinyl because that was weird.

It's more directionless than their later albums, but I've played it more often than all of the other Kraftwerk albums in my collection because it's nice to have on in the background. Each song has one idea that repeats throughout the whole song without much deviation. It's like an ancestor of the early records by Fennesz and Solar Fields, before they found their mojo. It also sounds really happy. The back cover photo of Ralf and Florian jamming in a brick studio is a life goal:
https://i.discogs.com/BzstVJ-XjrZR0Q5w2s-xNcv1w64e-1g686SWOv_haIc/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:600/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTEyNTIw/NS0xMjIxMzAxMjU5/LmpwZWc.jpeg

The front cover is weird. It's as if it was shot at a press conference. But why would Kraftwerk have a press conference in 1973? They weren't even technically a synthesiser band yet. They were just "a band". Apparently Germanofon was so popular (good-quality needle drops) that there was a fake Germanofon that re-issued the original bootlegs thus making them bootleg-bootlegs. The label's discography would make for a terrific Nurse-With-Wound-style list but for Kosmische Musik. I have now switched back and forth between my PC and my Mac Mini so often I can copy-paste without having to look at the keyboard. Truly I am system-neutral.

Controversial music opinion. Controversial music opinion. The bass on Sarah McLachlan's "Possession" is distracting. It'll too flashy. It doesn't complement the song. It's just too active. I realise I may be in the minority here but that's my take. And whereas Duran Duran pretty much emerged fully-formed, or at least almost fully-formed, Japan took ages to get their groove and had a relatively limited range. Ditto Ultravox. By the time those two bands reached their final form they were worn-out, whereas Duran Duran peaked at a time when they were still enthusiastic. And David Sylvian was unwilling to push his vocal range after the first Japan album, so his music tends to be of a piece, whereas... was I just about to praise Simon Le Bon's vocal depth? I believe I was.

That's why I dislike dogma. It's why I dislike rationality. Reasoning. Intelligence. Every time I try to be rational I start with good intentions but I end up convincing myself that Simon Le Bon was a more adventurous vocalist than David Sylvian. Sylvain. Sylvian. Sylvian. And that is how invasions and wars happen. Rational people perverting themselves with facts and logic. Machine men with machine minds etc.

On the subject of Blondie, and perhaps this is a UK/US thing, but I've always thought of them as a pop band. Not a rock band. They're much better than that. Parallel Lines was produced and/or written by Mike Chapman. Their most popular singles were disco ("Heart of Glass", "Atomic"), pop-rap ("Rapture"), and reggae ("The Tide is High"). They did not quote rock out unquote. They were far too sophisticated and musically adventurous to be a rock band.

"Ah, but you think that pop is inferior to rock" - not at all. Completely the opposite. I'm British! I grew up with pop. It's in my lifeblood. From a British point of view - my point of view, which reflects that of each and every human being who lives and breathes on these islands - pop is king and rock is stupid. That's one of the reasons Iron Maiden etc were despised in the 1980s. Because they were rock. It's why people laughed at Bruce Springsteen and Dire Straits. They were rock and thus boring. Blondie were huge in the UK precisely because they were pop. The likes of Kansas, Boston, Bob Seger, Van Halen etc weren't popular in the UK because they were rock. Van Halen's debut album got to number 34 over here. 1984? Number 15

We had Adam Ant, Gary Numan, and Kate Bush, who were popular because they were interesting. Unlike Foreigner or The Knack. And then we had Culture Club and Duran Duran, and then you had Culture Club and Duran Duran because they stuck their stingers into MTV and poisoned the United States.

And so at least in the UK Parallel Lines is a classic album, but it's not a classic rock album. And that's a good thing.

Unperson, I think you actually do get my point. There's a thriving metal scene here (alongside many others) and yet critics and ILXers are talking about... The Beths. Smh.

Each song has one idea that repeats throughout the whole song without much deviation

Apart from "Ananas Symphonie", which takes up most of Side 2.

Actress should be treated with the same hyper obsessive fanboy regard as Boards of Canada

I'm British! I grew up with pop. It's in my lifeblood. From a British point of view - my point of view, which reflects that of each and every human being who lives and breathes on these islands - pop is king and rock is stupid. That's one of the reasons Iron Maiden etc were despised in the 1980s. Because they were rock. It's why people laughed at Bruce Springsteen and Dire Straits. They were rock and thus boring. Blondie were huge in the UK precisely because they were pop. The likes of Kansas, Boston, Bob Seger, Van Halen etc weren't popular in the UK because they were rock. Van Halen's debut album got to number 34 over here. 1984? Number 15

We had Adam Ant, Gary Numan, and Kate Bush, who were popular because they were interesting. Unlike Foreigner or The Knack. And then we had Culture Club and Duran Duran, and then you had Culture Club and Duran Duran because they stuck their stingers into MTV and poisoned the United States.

I was going to add "disco was also more respected by the old rock-crit establishment than AOR hard rock, fairly obviously" to my post but figured it would be too tangential - but, yep, hating rock is nothing new for rock critics.

The back cover photo of Ralf and Florian jamming in a brick studio is a life goal

I like how they keep a pedal steel guitar handy, in case George Jones drops by.

Duran Duran pretty much emerged fully-formed, or at least almost fully-formed, Japan took ages to get their groove and had a relatively limited range

Because Duran Duran "emerged" from ripping off what Japan had done a year or two before...and every Japan album sounds different, even their "funk" was more propulsive and interesting than Duran's.

David Sylvian was unwilling to push his vocal range after the first Japan album

He was still hitting notes at the top of his range as late as the "European Son" single. Simon LeBon's voice is higher, though, if that counts for anything.

I like how they keep a pedal steel guitar handy, in case George Jones drops by.

"Ananas Symphonie"! Also it's a lap steel. Cluster had one at the same time. And so did Can.

Didn't know Ulcerate are from NZ.

Cluster's lap steel...

https://desertplanetmusic.files.wordpress.com/2019/04/cluster.jpeg

Duran's debut and Rio don't sound like Japan.

Re: Patti Smith, mentioned upthread, I think she might be the single most overpraised and absolutely talentless “musicians” I’ve ever heard. I’ve tried dozens of times and dozens of albums, and my conclusion is always the same: Patti Smith sucks.

Duran's debut and Rio don't sound like Japan.

The arrangement on "Planet Earth" is practically cribbed from "Quiet Life"!

table i got blasted for saying basically the same thing a year or so ago. love patti as a strong figure, but the music just isn't that good. fist bumps to you, friend.

on that note: morrissey's cover of "redondo beach" is better than patti's og.

but also, fuck morrissey relentlessly.

I am not sure the pop/rock distinction holds much water any more.

I like a few of Patti Smith's tuneful songs like "Frederick", "Dancing Barefoot", "Redondo Beach", "Because the Night" but most of the big production numbers sound like the Doors without a sense of humour.

I quote honestly think it's all terrible. How many times i had to fucking grit my teeth through 'Horses' when I was younger, thank god I stopped being friends with people who enjoy that shit.

Candy Slice, on the other hand, will live for fucking ever.

'Horses' is ... idk ... charitably I would compare it to "camp"? ... I do like 'Free Money' a bit, but Tracy Chapman's 'Fast Car' is vastly superior imo

In other words, if I never heard Patti Smith's music again, I wouldn't mind.

Candy Slice, on the other hand, will live for fucking ever.

...and also Andrea Martin as Patti Smith: "Inside of myself, I feel a scab... inside of myself, I feel caressed..."

My controversial opinion is that I really like Patti Smith. Easter is my favourite.

maybe if I had been born 10 years earlier than I was, I would feel about Patti Smith the way I do about Sinead O'Connor, in that, Lion and the Cobra is all time, despite other things ...

No way Smith never wrote anything as great a song as "Mandinka"

<3

Not a big Smith fan at all, but I saw one of her first NYC comeback shows in the late 90s or early 2000s (can't remember now) and it was a weirdly joyous experience. I say "weirdly" because I usually don't go to the kind of shows where the audience is palpably love-bombing the performer onstage from beginning to end; I would compare it to seeing Perfume in 2014. But I don't ever, ever, ever listen to her records (owned Horses on cassette in high school, liked it a little; owned Radio Ethiopia at some point but never even made it to the end of the first side).

Conflicted on Smith, but saw her at Summerstage last year and she was amazing, a force beyond anything I expected.

I always liked using the word “Group” like Patti Smith Group Pat Metheny Group, it has an impersonal technical resonance to it, like an architecture studio or something lol

Donnie Wahlberg should burn more carpets

owned Radio Ethiopia at some point but never even made it to the end of the first side

Then you missed "Pumping," which is my favorite concise Patti rocker. The rest of that side gets pretty aimless and noodly though. I'm not a big fan at all, but I like bits and pieces of her first four albums (I wonder if I still even own Wave?)

They did not quote rock out unquote. They were far too sophisticated and musically adventurous to be a rock band.

blondie does lots of things, but they are absolutely a rock band, especially on their first two albums

I love Horses all the way through, but after that it’s slim pickings for me. But man, Horses is so fucking good. I love it when she goes into “DO YOU KNOW HOW TO PONEEEE”

But the sophistication and adventurousness, voodoo chili

someone should tell clem burke that he doesn't rock out

Am I the only person who admires Dream of Life?

Horses and Easter are my favorites (and are all-time great I think). More recently I've really liked Gone Again and Peace and Noise. I remember liking Dream of Life at the time, but as with a lot of 80s music I wonder how much I would in retrospect. Anyway she is a relic, in a good way

Yeah, Dream of Life wasn't a favourite of mine but I loved Gone Again and Peace and Noise.

Again, I think all of them are shit. Her mystique is shit, and JFC that song that she often ends her sets with (still?) is abhorrent. Her poetry is garbage, and she just won a $100,000 award for it. Repulsive person, repellant music.

I think you may be going a little far(?) I’m not a fan of her music myself, but everything I’ve heard about her as a person is that she’s really cool.

Gone Again was my intro, precipitating my purchase of Horses. Too long but "Beneath the Southern Cross" is a top five Smith ballad.

I think you may be going a little far(?) I’m not a fan of her music myself, but everything I’ve heard about her as a person is that she’s really cool.

Ian Penman's opinions on Patti largely mirror my own: https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v38/n09/ian-penman/ways-to-be-pretentious

table, how do you reconcile your admiration for Pound's Cantos and his anti-semitism (which pops up often in'em)? I'm not trying to zing. I want to understand how you weigh an artist's grotesqueries. Or is that you find Pound a more fascinating poet, thus requiring you to think about his offenses?

can’t express how much more i hate ian penman than patti smith

For the first half​ of the book, she had me: I happily surrendered. It was only when I got to the chapter featuring two people whose work I happen to know and love, Paul Bowles and Jean Genet, that the spell was broken. All of a sudden, this oddfellow’s odyssey didn’t feel quite so whimsical – it felt borderline exploitative, as though she was using these people, or their memory, to make herself look good

how offensive