Rolling Maleness and Masculinity Discussion Thread

my back yard is so small i have a mower with an electrical cord lol

We have a lawn service, my lawn is sloped and has terraces/retaining walls in the back and it would be a pretty crazy one-man job. My wife actually does 90% of the gardening and she really likes it - she has been on a kick of restoring native plants, pollinator plants etc. and it has had amazing payoff - we have tons of birds and are starting to get butterflies. Also a good number of bees but not in any way that creates a nuisance.

I do occasionally fix stuff around the house, and I enjoy it, but it's a matter of time as much as anything. When we first moved in I was proud that I figured out how to fix our dryer - it was the middle of COVID and hard to find repair people, and I was also just kind of mannishly stubborn about it. The roller went bad, and I took the drum and the belt out and everything. But having never done it before it took me way longer than it would have taken a pro, including two trips to home depot, and I had to muscle off a completely rusted bolt. I also briefly panicked thinking "what if I did something wrong and the dryer catches on fire?" First time I ran it I just sat there for like 30 minutes making sure it didn't. Then it only worked for like two months before the belt went bad too, and we said fuck it and just bought a new dryer.

Other than that I have done basic stuff like replacing light switches, hanging floating shelves, assembling furniture, very minimal plumbing repairs like replacing a section of pvc pipe under a sink or a washer, but beyond that I rely on others. We have a great handyman who we've kind of become friends with so I usually just call him.

I think if I was retired I'd be into doing my own yardwork, home repairs etc. Definitely something soothing about getting into that zone and using an entirely different part of the brain, as well as your body, when you work on a computer all day.

This is the #1 reason I'm going to be a renter/apartment dweller for the rest of my life. I grew up in the suburbs, oldest son of a single mom, and all that shit fell to me as a teenager; when I moved out at 18, I told myself, I have mowed my last lawn, I have raked my last leaf.

― but also fuck you (unperson), Tuesday, August 30, 2022 3:35 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Yes! My old man thought making his kids use a hand mower was a good way to build character.

― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Tuesday, August 30, 2022 3:37 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

lawns are dumb but gardening is pretty awesome

― brimstead, Tuesday, August 30, 2022 3:51 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

lawns and mowing them are one of those things that just seem custom built to make any self-thinking male kid hate arbitrary authority for the rest of their lives

― (grim) pump track (wales) (map), Tuesday, August 30, 2022 4:00 PM (yesterday) bookmarkf

Agree with all this -- also, Dad forcing me to vacuum cars every Saturday morning.

Lawns are dumb and bad in general, but I have to say that mowing was one of my favorite teenage chores. I'd put on my walkman and know that nobody was going to bother me for the duration. Plus I liked the immediate sense of accomplishment, I could see the progress of my work. It was not gendered work in our household tho — both my parents mowed as did my sister, we had a rotation.

I have done basic stuff like replacing light switches, hanging floating shelves, assembling furniture, very minimal plumbing repairs like replacing a section of pvc pipe under a sink or a washer,

See, I just let this stuff remain undone, thereby striking a blow against suffocating norms of masculinity

🤝

I use a push mower. I like noise in my music but can't stand it in the garden.

Another fan here of battery electric mowers (and snow/leaf blowers) - I bought mine specifically for its quietness so I could mow the lawn at nighttime or early in the morning without bothering neighbors and escape the suffocating heat and humidity in the afternoons. It's no noisier than an electric box fan (which is essentially what it is), and even has bright LED headlamps to help out. Only after I bought it did I learn about the environmental benefits, as gasoline mowers don't have any of the pollution controls that cars have been fitted with for the last half century.

Some folks around here are ditching grass lawns altogether and installing artificial turf; it's not just for football fields anymore. They aren't completely no-maintenance though since crud of various sorts accumulates and needs washing away occasionally.

I love my battery-powered mower and snow blower, but this is an incredibly boring thread derail (which maybe is appropriate?)

I don't know, I was somehow raised to think of this kind of work as "manly." Before we hired a lawn service, I would always object to my wife mowing the lawn. Much as I hated to do it, I hated even more the idea of the neighbors seeing my wife doing it.

there is something very comforting about extremely boring conversations among guys imo.

i bought one of those electric (plug-in) ryobi mowers from a friend who was moving in the spring, with the intent of keeping the tiny back patch of lawn behind our trailer trim. i haven't used it once. said patch is a mess. half-dried weeds up to the fence, 8 ft tall weed tree sprouts, overgrown bushes. i'm a little embarrassed but honestly no one can see it and i just don't gaf lol.

weeds are all in the mind iirc

100% agree!

thanks for the validation lmao

Mowing the lawn was 100% my least favorite chore growing up. We had around half an acre too. The smell of cut grass still bothers me!

Slightly more thread relevant: my older brother and I had to mow, but my younger sister did not. However, my mom sometimes did it too, so idk how my sister pulled that off in retrospect (hats off to her really, no surprise she's a super smart lawyer now)

I don’t mind mowing but it’s the next level that I refuse - edging and weedeating. Also bagging leaves, just run them over with the mower.

I always mowed our lawn while growing up. I guess I hated it at first but got more OK with it after working all summer one year with a friend and his older brother. They had a bunch of customers - well-off types with big yards and high standards. Had we not moved, I would have definitely gone back the next year - it was good money for a 13 year old and the fact that the older brother drove us around in a truck made it fun.

I continued mowing lawns of family friends and acquaintances for extra money through my early high school years, but had to use their mowers and get rides.

Though I am probably an urban renter for life, and am now generally opposed to the concept of lawns, I can’t deny my love of the smell of freshly cut grass.

I have a rider so it's fun to mow. raking up the grass because you waited too long, on the other hand = total dud

Riding mowers remind me of my grandpa and George Jones, not necessarily in that order.

My grandfather had a Craftsman riding mower he got off the curb - the only way to get it to stop was to depress the clutch and coast so it was fun to try and time it right to not run into shit.

This was it ~12 years ago in the back of my mom's yard, now it's completely invisible

https://live.staticflickr.com/3045/2601423981_1a635a80f7_c.jpgElephant Graveyard by Matt, on Flickr

Er Montgomery Ward not Craftsman, his tools were all Crafstman

My grandfather had a very similar riding mower. I'm not 100% sure, but I think it was also from Ward's. He was a regular shopper there.

14 or 15 years old. Living in a rented house — more like a palace — an Edwardian mock-Tudor behemoth with a fountain, ivy, lilac hedges a kilometre long, and acres of lawn. Don’t know how my LMC parents pulled that off, but it’s given me delusions of deserving an estate all my life. Anyway, of course it’s my job to mow the lawn, and since it’s a rider and I’m as yet too young to have my license, I’m thrilled to do it.

One day I’m cruising around the yard at full tilt, Walkman on, just giving ‘er, when I become vaguely aware of stinging pains in my arms and neck. WASPS. I’d run over a ground nest and they were out to make me pay. I panicked and bailed and ran for the house with a cartoon cloud of wasps after me. The mower kept going to the edge of the lawn and over the lip of a hill, coming to rest with the rear wheels still spinning, 3/4 capsized, against the fence. As I’m sponging myself down with cold water I look out the window & can see my dad trying to wrestle the mower back upright while fending off the wasps with his hat.

Crossover podcast ep getting into the Manosphere and social media influencers from Chapo Trap House and Qanon Anonymous.

https://www.soundcloud.com/chapo-trap-house/678-for-whom-the-balls-tan-feat-julian-feeld-annie-kelly-11822

xp to the yardwork

idk how many people itt are married/tied up/have kids/etc., but god, i'll take any chore that involves some solitude. listen to a not kid-friendly band, call an old friend/family member, get some thoughts straight for a spell.

so, while the DiCaprio dating a 19 year old rumors turned out to be false (in this case), it's brought up a topic I wanted to discuss, namely men dating significantly younger women.

DiCaprio being a powerful celebrity adds another layer to it, and there was the fact that one of the women he dated he had known since age 11, adding a "grooming" factor to it, but I'm curious if it is even ok for a non-celebrity man in his 40s to date someone in their early 20s, especially since frontal lobe is still developing until age 25.

Obviously, I think context also matters, and I don't think any blanket statement could be made, but I've seen fairly compelling arguments for why this might be inherently a creepy and manipulative thing so I was interested in seeing more discussion. please no defensive "not all men" arguments.

I'm curious if it is even ok for a non-celebrity man in his 40s to date someone in their early 20s, especially since frontal lobe is still developing until age 25.

IMO it's "OK" in the "none of your goddamn business" sense, but it's "not OK" in the "yurgh, what's wrong with you" sense.

I don't think of it as "creepy and manipulative" because I don't think that gives enough credit to the young woman in the equation, who can presumably see a dude like this coming from a mile away and has made a conscious choice to go for it nonetheless. I mostly feel bad for the old man, who for whatever reason is emotionally incapable of connecting with a woman his own age, either because of some kind of Peter Pan syndrome — he doesn't want to think of himself as old, and dipping into young pussy helps him maintain his delusions — or because older women see through his bullshit (as do younger women, most likely, see above) and are less willing to put up with it and more likely to call him on it. Also, speaking strictly for myself, I'm always baffled by it, because a huge part of a relationship, for me, is having things to talk about, and I have nothing to talk about with a 22-year-old woman. We are from different planets, and I wouldn't want to live on hers.

FTR, my wife, to whom I will have been married 30 years in a few months, is only eight months younger than me. Sometimes she jokes that the span between my birthday and hers, when I'm older than she is, is when she likes me best, but she too is creeped out by dudes who pursue much younger women, and vaguely put off by the women who enter into those relationships.

what about men dating significantly younger men

a huge part of a relationship, for me, is having things to talk about, and I have nothing to talk about with a 22-year-old woman. We are from different planets, and I wouldn't want to live on hers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QU7yl9R9bkY

David Duchovny evidently has a gf half his age right now and frankly good for both of them in that case

Leo still a sleazebag probably

what about men dating significantly younger men

Indeed, what about it? I'd be really interested in your perspective (or anybody else who wants to weigh in from that side of the bed).

I had a serious relationship with a twenty-three-year-old a couple years ago. I felt more self-conscious than he did tbh. His pop culture references, erudition, prose style, and composure belied his age.

While I'd never call him my boyfriend -- he lived in another state and, well, it just wasn't like that regardless -- we had, shall we say, feelings about each other.

from high school on, i've always been in relationships with women who are older than me. come to think of it, i don't think i've ever even dated a younger woman! that wasn't a conscious decision, just happened organically.

i am now officially old enough that most women under the age of 23 don't really code as sexual creatures to me. they tend to look like children.

there are exceptions! but almost any woman in that rough age bracket that i hang out with for a few days - either in the studio, via work, because of shared interests, etc - rapidly ends up feeling more like lil' sis than anything else. But then I'm not looking so maybe the world would feel differently if i weren't in a comfortable and established relationship. I doubt it tho.

Anthony Kiedis to thread

On one hand, yeah, once people are “of age” it really isn’t anyone else’s business. On the other hand, big age differences definitely can seem a bit dubious depending on circumstances. As corny as it is, the “half your age plus 8” metric seems sort of reasonable. It means minimum acceptable-age when you’re 30 is 23, 40 is 28, 50 is 33, 60 is 38, etc.

Tho tbqh, when my wife and I started dating I was 41 and she was 28, so just outside that window. My other prior girlfriends/wives had all been my age or a little older, so I felt a little self-conscious about it because I didn’t want to be perceived as older man/younger woman. But it’s never been an issue for us or anyone else as far as I know.

(Probably thanks to her maturity and my youthful spirit!)

cradle robber!

I generally don't care that much, to each his/her own... but I do wonder about jeff goldblum having a kid at aged 66

I fully recognize that the age gap I described is unusual.

My now-wife and I started dating when I was 27 and she was 20.

(Actually she was still 19 when we met, but didn't start dating until after her 20th birthday.)

Now we're 51 and 44 and it simply doesn't register as a thing.

I do wonder about jeff goldblum having a kid at aged 66

From my perspective as the 57-year-old father of a 12 year old, the only way this make sense is that he doesn't do a lot of the work.

i guess the one good thing about being on dating apps is that it forces you to consider the age question and make a decision. i'm 39, i put the low end of who i can see at 30, high at 48.

i'm also currently just striking the fuck out on the apps.

also, off-topic but on-topic for the thread, in one of the last couples therapy sessions before my ex and i split, the therapist told me that i was one of the least straight straight people she had met. i take that as a compliment, of course (and she meant it as one), but combined with my perpetually broken nose face and hair that is just straight up immature, maybe it explains my lack of success. also probably that i don't have a job, that's always frowned upon in the 39 year old scene

the therapist told me that i was one of the least straight straight people she had met.

Regarding Neanderthal's revive: I think that the public discourse rushes to apply metrics of morality (and even illegality) toward cases like DiCaprio's. I think it's a bad look and unnecessary. Claiming "grooming" and so forth is so dumb. I wish people would be quicker instead to simply define what they're seeing, in DiCaprio's dating patterns, as what it is: ugliness. It's ugly to see a middle-aged actor dating a string of younger women. It changes my personal desire to engage with DiCaprio's professional work. I don't think he's a predator, but I do think his dating patterns make him look ugly, and that it should be considered a professional liability.

I have friends who are dating younger men. Sometimes it's beautiful and sometimes it's ugly. Sometimes it's clear that the relationship is founded on deep attraction, love, shared interests. Other times it feels as if the relationship is transactional. I feel like the "half your age plus one" rule is somewhat of a basilisk. Like, if you have to do a math to determine whether or not the relationship you're in is viable, you've lost the game already.

I don't think of it as "creepy and manipulative" because I don't think that gives enough credit to the young woman in the equation, who can presumably see a dude like this coming from a mile away and has made a conscious choice to go for it nonetheless.

Great post, gyac.

Dating younger men is common in the gay male world, often a transactional relationship: the older man gets companionship and maaaaybe sex, the younger an inheritance. I've never had a friend date or hit on a teenage boy, but I've seen more than my share of that creepiness in public.

Thank you gyac, that is the perspective I was really looking for

I do remember something I'd long forgotten, that one of my high school friends, who is in fact now married to my oldest friend, dated a 34 year old when she was about 17. It felt gross to us all.

She never really brought her boyfriends around us anyway - she liked to keep friends and boyfriends in separate worlds, though she tried much harder to keep them separate as she knew people disapproved. He showed up after school one day during our rehearsal and it felt really creepy, but fortunately he didn't last long.

The one trend that skeeved me out the most were those websites which were purely countdowns to female celebrities turning 18. That isn't borne out of healthy thinking, even if they thought they were making an innocent joke.