rolling #metoo thread for sexual harassment in the music industry so no one misses out when artists we don't give a fuck about like Tim Westwood and Bassnectar get caught

ll otm — for me using the excuse of excessive drink and drug use has always cast the person offering such explanations in a way worse light. it's like, "yeah, not being able to exercise any self control is how you got here, so that checks out completely."

xp - i still don't understand the unsolicited dick pics urge tbh ... maybe i'm not into dicks enough? but ... i don't think that's the problem

it's a power thing. sure, if you're in a couple and you typically send each other noodz, that's fine, but i've never known someone to send one unsolicited to an acquaintance or stranger that actually thought their recipient would like the pics. it's almost a sort of perverse form of imprinting.

my g/f back in 2009 got sent two of them within a half hour by the same guy from an unknown number.

idgi either -- out-of-nowhere no-precedent genital photography seems so unnatural and there is no irl equivalent aside from flashing which we have all agreed is v bad/illegal for some time now.

well ilx's king of this is no longer posting which makes me feel better about ilx

THIS is what I was trying to say about about Win Butler -- he could literally be anyone! Anyone with access to impressionable admirers who does not possess the (apparently) elusive quality of sufficient boner control when it comes to engaging in inappropriate behaviors AND has no idea how consent works. I was reminded of Ken Stringfellow, who did basically the same thing. In my mind I separate it as someone who is a dog (no insult to actual dogs, who I love) and someone who is deeply malevolent. A cowardly dogger who takes advantage of people and lies to cover it up ("I thought she wanted it!" I was reading her signals!") vs R. Kelly? Huge difference. In spite of their malfeasance taking very different forms, they both create immense damage in their wake, that much is for sure.

― Piggy Lepton (La Lechera)

At the risk of sidetracking my personal experience is not that men are "dogs" who don't have "boner control". This is anecdotal, obviously, but for a number of decades I had the same anatomy and hormones that men have, and men saying they _have_ to fuck somebody... that's bullshit. Nearly all men have hands. If their libido gets too out of control, they can go to a goddamn toilet stall and jerk it. If a man engaging in _inappropriate sexual behavior_, there's something other than a simple failure of boner control going on.

I also don't personally find a lot of value distinguish between "genuinely malevolent" people and people who are just, I don't know, dumb ignorant horndogs. I think people should be held responsible for their words and actions. Whatever those are. If someone _behaves_ like a malignant narcissist (in the manner that, say, Win Butler is), he should be treated accordingly.

xp - i still don't understand the unsolicited dick pics urge tbh ... maybe i'm not into dicks enough? but ... i don't think that's the problem

― sarahell

I talked about this a little bit w/r/t the Jerry Sadowitz thing - my take is that it is a form of sexual abuse, one which is actively sought out and cultivated by dating sites. Dating sites don't exist to match two people up with each other. They exist to make the dating site a profit by giving men the opportunity to sexually abuse people by sending unsolicited dick pics to them.

xp I never said "men are dogs" -- I lack a better word for uncontrollably horny people who do not know how to/refuse to try to exercise sexual self control. fwiw masturbation is a form of boner control in my mind. People used to claim sex addiction and that seems to have fallen out of favor?

horndog is the full-length version afaik

(I type way too slow but xp)

I was pretty skeptical this only happened during that alleged down period for Win. Combined with the other details it seemed preposterous - what did he do, go up to his wife and get her permission to turn into a complete sex-obsessed shit to deal with his depression?

And I don't get the dick pic thing either - I don't think it's a generational thing since Win's obviously older, but it's like ever since smartphones came into being, there have been way too many people who think it's suddenly okay to flash people like some pervert in a trench coat. I think virtually every female I know on a dating app has had that happen to her, like WTF???

idk if i feel like sending one unsolicited dick pic to an adult is "abusive" ... again, just speaking for myself. there is a certain vulnerability required to do the sending tbh, which is why i find it confounding. However, if a guy flooded my phone or inbox with dick pics, or, if i said "not that" in response to a single dick pic, and then more were sent, or if i blocked the guy and he sent them from another account ... yeah, that's crossing a line.

People used to claim sex addiction and that seems to have fallen out of favor?

Always seemed to be Hollywood actors though never plumbers or bus drivers.

idk if i feel like sending one unsolicited dick pic to an adult is "abusive" ... again, just speaking for myself. there is a certain vulnerability required to do the sending tbh, which is why i find it confounding. However, if a guy flooded my phone or inbox with dick pics, or, if i said "not that" in response to a single dick pic, and then more were sent, or if i blocked the guy and he sent them from another account ... yeah, that's crossing a line.

― sarahell

they're not sending unsolicited dick pics to just _one_ person, though. it's a repeated, systemic pattern of behavior. it's a _systemic_ form of sexual abuse, and it's one that is not only tacitly permitted but _encouraged_ by the business model adopted by internet dating sites.

i don't think it _is_ an act of vulnerability to send somebody a picture of one's cock. you know, i show someone my tits there could be some very serious repercussions to that, repercussions that men just _don't face_ for sending unsolicited anonymous pictures of their penises to people on dating sites.

I think virtually every female I know on a dating app has had that happen to her, like WTF???

wtf exactly ... want to fuck? ... like, I get it in the context of dating apps. It is potentially appropriate. But like, on Instagram messenger (in the Win B context) or pretty much any other communication platform that is not focused on hooking up, it is a mystery.gif

Always seemed to be Hollywood actors though never plumbers or bus drivers.

― Buckfast At Tiffany's (Tom D.)

well it's about what you can get away with. it really is. men abuse because not only are they not _discouraged_ from abusive behavior, they are often actively _encouraged_ to abuse, that it is held up as not just normal but _normative_ behavior. i certainly was encouraged multiple times when i was younger to engage in behavior that i'd consider to be, at the least, _inappropriate_.

xp rushomancy -- i think we are operating from different definitions of abuse

I've known women who have been spammed (if that's the right word) repeatedly by the same guy. Don't know how broadly this applies, but said guy had a comically small penis, which to me indicates a combination of insecurity, self-loathing and need for approval. Plus anger, I suppose.

grower not a shower iirc

LOL at anger - "look at my small penis!! Why must I be so small??? GAH, AARRRRRGH!!!!"

penis so small he took the pic with a Motorola Razr to mke it look bigger

please tell me someone he sent it to put a clown emoji on the head of it and sent it back

I've known women who have been spammed (if that's the right word) repeatedly by the same guy. Don't know how broadly this applies, but said guy had a comically small penis, which to me indicates a combination of insecurity, self-loathing and need for approval. Plus anger, I suppose.

― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux)

lol and here i was in the other thread just talking about how much i loved meta dicks, well fine y'all be size queens ig

xp rushomancy -- i think we are operating from different definitions of abuse

― sarahell

probably, i guess harassment would maybe be more accurate... the general point is that it creates a hostile and misogynist environment. it's kind of challenging for me, because even though i'm a lesbian i do in fact like guys (the "bi/pan lesbian" thing), i think they're hot, but i got certain needs, like, if i'm gonna be with a guy i need him to treat me like a woman and not a fetish object, and if you look at the single guys... i mean, obviously, it's a skewed sample size, right? the ones who can treat women with respect go off the market pretty quickly, and the ones who are just there to harass women with unsolicited dick pics and the couples looking for a unicorn stick around. so i do find dating sites, particularly the subset of men on dating sites, to be a pretty hostile environment.

I LOATHE an unsolicited dick pic, your boner can wait the minute it takes to ask "can I send an explicit picture" and receive a reply, and anyone who isn't willing to do that work is someone I will assume is bad at consent and should stay away from.

I’m shook to learn this is a common occurrence. Isn’t it the same as “exposing yourself” in person? Like not just ethically, but legally(?)

(And not that I’m saying anyone it happens to should go running to the cops, but the fact that there are a significant number of guys who would go doing that at all… oy)

I LOATHE an unsolicited dick pic, your boner can wait the minute it takes to ask "can I send an explicit picture" and receive a reply, and anyone who isn't willing to do that work is someone I will assume is bad at consent and should stay away from.

― boxedjoy, Monday, August 29, 2022 5:11 PM bookmarkflaglink

otm. ffs even if you can't wait, just take the boner pic and dont' SEND it until you get the consent.

xpost my girlfriend at the time said the cops basically laughed at her and said block the number.

I attempted to find the guy and believed I had located the identity of the person myself through one of those reverse lookup sites but she didn't want to spend any more energy on it. esp since I wasn't 100% confident.

that was 13 years ago, nowadays it'd probably be easier to identify the dick

reversedicklookup.com etc etc

even a decade ago when I was single and online dating, not a day would go by where I wouldn't log in to any account and find an unsolicited nude in my inbox. My pals who date men all talk about how they would never open a dating app on public transport now.

omg reversedicklookup.com should exist ... honestly, that would be a great use for AI

must register your dick on the national dick database.

commercials with LL Cool J saying "c'mon, you gotta register your car if you use it, why not your joint too?"

reversedicklookup requires incredible focus, practice and strength but imo it's a waste to make a whole website about just one dicktrick - there are so many others

I LOATHE an unsolicited dick pic, your boner can wait the minute it takes to ask "can I send an explicit picture" and receive a reply, and anyone who isn't willing to do that work is someone I will assume is bad at consent and should stay away from.

― boxedjoy,

A guy I've been seeing intermittently for months will send private Instagram messages of his cock and rim jobs and -- it grosses me out? He's also much younger, probably unaware of the impression he makes. It's partially my fault for tolerating it.

omg reversedicklookup.com should exist ... honestly, that would be a great use for AI

― sarahell, Monday, August 29, 2022 5:29 PM (eleven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

sarah, don't give that idea away for free.

I hear of guys who do this and I just wanna ask them how often it actually works for them. Obviously you would never get a truthful answer. But I would think that sending an unsolicited dick pic to a girl you are NOT already seeing has a success rate of like, less than 0.1%. in fact I would not be surprised to find out that it has never worked in the entirety of human history. there is, however, a significant chance she sends it to your Mom or your boss

similar to catcalling it is not intended to "work" it is just an assertion of power

exactly

it’s the same principle as flashing - the dude is getting off on the act of forcing the viewer’s gaze & being seen period, esp unwillingly

it’s nothing at all to do with “luring a mate” or whatever

yeah, I don't imagine there are too many forlorn looking "man in the yellow hat" type folk who sit on their couch after their fiftieth unsuccessful dick pic pickup attempt, and sigh to George "I guess they're just not that into me!"

Brad and VG otm

my cousin will do this thing where if she's in a club and a guy starts to dance against her or similar she will just shout at him as loud as possible "oh you grope like a pro, ram it in then" and it has never failed to scare a guy away. Obviously that's not a strategy for everyone to use, my cousin is a very strong confident woman in situations where it's understandable other people may not be, but it is clearly about power and intimidation.

_
omg reversedicklookup.com should exist ... honestly, that would be a great use for AI

― sarahell, Monday, August 29, 2022 5:29 PM (eleven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink_


sarah, don't give that idea away for free.

it’s nothing at all to do with “luring a mate” or whatever

Like an anglerfish? Wait, that's a meal, not a mate.

I’m shook to learn this is a common occurrence.

I've never even been on a dating site, but i have a public twitter acct with DMs open for reporting tips, and even then occasionally, I get other kinds of tips instead. or comments about my profile pic. just the price of existing as a woman-presenting person on the internet.

just the price of existing as a woman-presenting person on the internet.

― Roz

Happens to all queer folx, too, regardless of gender presentation. Our identities are sexualised and objectified.

yes, absolutely

Two years ago -- "[I] have been completely inappropriate to women," Ian Svenonius (Nation of Ulysses, The Make-Up, etc) writes in a new statement: https://brooklynvegan.com/ian-svenonius-i-have-been-completely-inappropriate-to-women/

This past weekend - Two years later Ian Svenonius & fellow filmmaker Alexandra Cabral did Aug 26 and Aug 27 chats w/ a showing of their film The Lost Record @ AFI Silver Spring , near Washington DC

I saw a couple of IG posts from someone asserting that his apology wasn't good enough, and that his behavior needed to be punished and his blocking of people on social media who challenged him should not be ignored

omg reversedicklookup.com should exist ... honestly, that would be a great use for AI

― sarahell, Monday, August 29, 2022 5:29 PM (yesterday)

I read a paper a while ago about a team of engineers training an AI to recognize porn imagery. Since they were nearly all straight men on the team, the AI didn't even register full on dicks as nudity, just breasts and vulvas

After I was dragged in this thread for not understanding the power dynamics of these relationships, I went ahead and read the Alexandra Brodsky book referenced in the Pitchfork article and it was very good. I should confess that the screenshots also helped.