Jerry Sadowitz C/D

I can't help but think he'd have been much happier sticking with magic but I don't really know him well enough to say - no money in it though. Not much money in comedy either.

the card tricks element to his game has never been in question has it? An old friend of mine who was into all that shit told me he was one of the best in the UK. Albeit he was a postman amateur card trick enthusiast, but still!

Yes, I believe he's considered one of the best.

I actually used to know Jerry Sadowitz

i was very, vaguely acquainted with him. he left glasgow around the same time i moved here but he was back often, we had some mutual friends and we were introduced. i was surprised how quiet he was (the couple of times i met him, at least). he did do some great card tricks - about the best i've ever seen. i saw him perform one time and remember finding it very funny but don't recall any of the content.

A statement from Sadowitz:
I don’t wish to humiliate The Pleasance but they are doubling down on their position and I don’t want to be made the victim of that. I repeat... I did a 75 minute show for 600 people that went pretty well and left with no hint of anything going wrong.
In addition to now being told there were multiple walkouts and "abuse of staff" my act is now being cheapened and simplified as unsafe, homophobic, misogynistic and racist.
I am not J** D******* folks… a lot of thought goes into my shows and while I don’t always get it right, especially at the speed of which I speak… and I don’t always agree with my own conclusions (!)...I am offended by those who, having never seen me before, HEAR words being shouted in the first five minutes before storming out without LISTENING to the material which I am stupid enough to believe is funny, sometimes important and worth saying.
Additionally, there's a lot of silly, exaggerated irony and nonsense, real and exaggerated anger and bile, and even getting my dick out is for the purpose of the funny line which follows it. (No I won't tell you what it is… see the show for yourself… or better still... just stay at home).
I ask nobody to agree with anything I say or do on stage... God forbid they should end up like me... and I have never ONCE courted a mainstream audience to come to my shows because guess what??? In real life, I really DON'T don’t want to upset anyone… including Anthony Alderson.
The show is what it is, for those who enjoy it. The rest of you... please stick to Carry On films.
P.S. If the Pleasance can't apologise to me they should at least apologise to the 300 people who paid for and travelled to see the show on Saturday.

Not sure why he felt the need to asterisk out Joy Division.

He's personalizing it. That's why the statement sits weird with me. I mean, he's being systemically ground to bits by the Discourse Machine, which is a fucking horrible thing to watch, every time. It's not _personal_, that's the most horrifying thing about it. There's no such thing as justice, just random people being targeted for reasons that aren't really about _him_ personally. Hell, that's what I've been doing here. I really, genuinely have nothing against Mr Sadowitz. The stuff I'm complaining about has basically fuck-all to do with him personally. This is just what a world without justice _looks_ like, in practice.

you're trying to put the burden of proof on me to demonstrate to you that having a dick waved in your face is threatening

No, I asked you IN WHAT SENSE is "waving his dick around on stage*" "a potentially dangerous situation".

It's a question - as in, do you mean dangerous in the sense that it might make you feel really bad, or do you mean it indicates some realistic possibility of physical danger. The latter is usually what people mean when they talk about danger, and yes I would question the extent to which [offensive comedian on stage getting nob out] obectively indicates likely physical danger.

But if the former, I cannot possibly have anything to say about that, that shouldn't need saying (although I did say - "There's obviously nothing wrong with feeling you might need to get out of a place") . Feelings are feelings. Only, it's a little suspect eliding any distinction.

* if it's now "waving in face" being "threatening", that's surely further along on the "threatening gesture" scale, but also "threat" is partly in the peception and feeling threatened doesn't necessarily correlate with degree of threat to person, while it is identical with how threatened you feel, obviously not something I would be arguing with.

noel suggests that my belief that i would feel unsafe were the fictitious jerry sadowitz to show me his beautiful, beautiful cock might be indicative of "ptsd".

It was an illustration of an extreme example of "emotional danger" (as a concept), in the event that's what you had meant. Absolutely nothing to do with you as a person or what you might feel, believe you might feel, what might cause you to feel a certain way etc.

it is just such a perfect response. when i bring up the prospect that an exposed penis might somehow contribute to a "hostile environment", his immediate concern is that the penis might perhaps be used to bludgeon someone. yes, of course, that is every woman's foremost fear when someone pulls their cock out - the possibility that someone might rip it off and conk us over the head with it.

ok first off there is something of a distorted sense of scale inherent in that framing. i've seen quite a few cocks, including some impressively large ones, but i've yet to see one where i thought "i'd better watch out for that one, it could possibly be effectively used as a cudgel". i'm sorry. i know the term "pound" is a common euphemism for intercourse but it's not something that's easily literally accomplished with a cock.

It was SUPPOSED to be a ludicrous image of the potential for PHYSICAL danger, as opposed to something else, which remained the quite simple question I had asked you about what you'd said.

someone with experience of being a CSE victim or a sexual assault/rape survivor might bed to differ with you there matey

Not sure what you're getting at, primarliy because what you replied to was part of a question that still hasn't been answered, not a statement as such. That being in what sense is the supposed sitation "potentially dangerous"? I'm not saying it isn't, I'm asking in what way?

It SEEMS like you decided, or understood, that when Kate talked about a "potentially dangerous situation" she definitely meant "dangerous to FEELINGS". And then... you mean to imply I would have been doing something like disputing how people say they feel?

Or the alternative is that you mean to argue that a trauma / fear response is likely to make for an especially realistic assessment of the potential for a triggering situation to become physicaly perlilous? I'll assume that's not what you meant.

Hi Noel! Just letting you know I'm adding you to my ilx killfile script, so unfortunately I won't be reading or responding to any more of your posts. Just wanted to give you a heads up about that. Cheers!

In the meantime, thinking a little bit more about how the concept of "justice" relates to the Sadowitz thing. I think my feeling is that justice _on an individual level_ is no longer a meaningful concept. Which is a weird thing to think about! 2022. I tell you.

Quite liked this reading of the story.

sadowitz story is about post covid labour markets. power for staff to object to working for a guy taking his dick out and saying slurs is elevated massively by staffing shortages at the 2022 fringe

— josh (@lobstereo) August 14, 2022

I mean, that's not _terribly_ far removed from my take. I don't know if it's labour markets or the sheer levels of dystopia we're all trying to survive in or what, but the fact that I can even come into this thread and say that it's legitimate for some people to feel unsafe because Jerry Sadowitz took his dick out on stage, legitimate for the venue to cancel him, and have some of the men in this thread actually take me seriously... I mean this isn't a typical Internet Discourse space in a lot of ways but I'm still kind of reeling in disbelief that I wasn't immediately dogpiled into nothingness. If ILX was a larger board it would've happened by now, certainly.

There is absolutely no way a venue would cancel a show because of a shortage of Front of House staff. The theatre manager or admin staff just steps in, or the performers' entourage, or you just grab someone from the bar if necessary.

do you know anything about fringe? They’ve had a lot of problems finding staff and volunteers this year.

a lot of the Fringe runs on temporary workers - these are people who don't have the ties and reliance on the job, they know it's going to end in a matter of weeks, so it makes sense if something is bothering them that they'll feel a lot more comfortable walking away than if it was their "career job"

yeah, I thought the tweet was saying they were muddling along with staff shortages and because of this they have more say on what is an acceptable working environment.

I worked for years in the theatre in Scotland ( & like others in this thread got to know Sadowitz a bit when stand-up was huge for a time in the mid-90s). An absence of ushers is not a serious problem. Ditto for tech or stage management. The only absence that would stop the show is if Sadowitz cancelled.

Yeah and also as per other posts in that thread, they are significantly stretched everywhere. It depends on the roles too I guess but you probably just can’t get someone in for most things in time. Looks like they are required to know their way around fire safety and handling difficult patrons as a condition of licensing (and for a high profile thing like fringe, you’d bet they don’t want to take chances on that).

xp was that pre or post pandemic, cos nobody can get staff anywhere.

you need to have experience of working at the fringe in the post covid era to really know what you are talking about here

Were other shows at the Fringe cancelled due to a lack of front of house staff? Or just the one with the famously offensive Scotch person?

I mean sure, refund thousands of dollars of ticket money and engender tons of ill-will because noone is there to tell people where the toilets are.

one upside to being American is not knowing a single thing about whoever this guy is

He's kind of American too.

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shaking my d*** head

milkshake dick move