The Sandman on Netflix

So far (finished the eps that compromised vol 1) I’m impressed with what I assume is Gaiman’s polishing of the material. Vol 1 is the weakest of the series tone-wise, and the Netflix series does well to eliminate the early-stage attempts at integrating the DC universe (we don’t have the fates telling Dream to seek out the JLA, for example); the complete overhaul of John Dee’s character is terrific.

Connective tissue between incidental characters that become hugely relevant later on seem to be better delineated on screen. I feel optimistic that the series will greatly improve the weak links of the comics (vol. 1, 2 and 5) and feel somewhat concerned that the series won’t capture the magic of the high points (the bottle episodes, every other volume)— that said, considering how satisfied I was by The Sound Of Her Wings retelling two amazing early issues, generally I’m just staggered by how good this is and feeling annoyance that I’m likely going to have to wait five years at least until the series reaches its conclusion

The casting of Hal/Wanda had me exhaling joyously

started it with wife and kid and they lasted exactly three minutes before saying 'no' so I'll be watching this on my own I guess

had a very similar experience!

enjoyed ep 1, generally felt true to my relationship wifh the comics (which i reread a couple of years ago so they’re reasonably fresh in my mind)

but yeah, my partner was keen after reading a glowing Guardian review - and she noped out in the first 10 minutes- and my teenage son sloped off soon after - so i do wonder how it plays if you don’t have a prior relationship with the story and characters?

I'm coming from somewhere that I don't think is unusual, especially here - Sandman important to me in my early 20s, but it's a taste I've very much put aside & I remember its faults more than its glories. Haven't touched it in 15 to 20 years maybe, and could run off some superficial critical chatter about it - one shots usually better than arcs, patchy art, Gaiman's a hack (in the best sense), no question a totem of soft 90s we-are-made-of-stories culture etc

and yet and yet I loved this and was basically in tears of delight at everything this gets right & cheering at every step it did not fuck up, ie not just copying the pictures or the Gaiman ick version of cool. A good Constantine, a Death who gets to the kind/implacable core of it. Scruffy smoking occult geezer and cute goth girl are lures that are hard to avoid I think? But it does it. Such good casting throughout - Thewlis on form, & fuck national treasure S Fry, but yes he's Gilbert.

Not mad on Sturridge tbh - persuaded by neither side of the thing he has to pull off - neither lord-of-dreams grandiosity nor the nascent doubt, drollery and tenderness. Also, silly hair. But it's a hard job & it's making think you're better off with a functional Morpheus, rather than one who takes the story over.

And yes The Sound of Her Wings… when I realised halfway through ohhhh we're doing this as well oh shit, and it pulled that off… as much fun as I've had with TV for a while.

fgti otm - it does seem effectively tidied/polished - the big story feels quite cleanly laid out already.

It's hard to see properly, since for me it's basically an emotional journey through the return of a repressed taste, but I'm amazed by how much I enjoyed this.

xps
Oddly, my wife went in blind and absolutely loved it. Not much of a fantasy person, hates violence/torture/horror, but that particular Gaiman what-makes-us-human playground of ideas hit solidly, so she stuck through some stuff she wouldn't normally watch (ie 24/7).

My bf adored it all. He likes the frayed-ness of the storytelling and is completely convinced by Sturridge (who it must be noted has a nigh impossible task on his plate)

It did look a bit weird to me early on - I don't have the film/video language to describe it, just a kind of tacky/budget CGI/filmed in slovenia vibe - but I settled into the look within about an episode, after which I was rolling with the story.

Issue 3 (or 4), “dream a little dream”, is likely my least favourite single issue in the comic series, and its corresponding Netflix episode was surprisingly totally just fine

I will not be sad if they just cut the Calliope issue entirely!

Looking forward to the Thermidor one tho

xp yeah, nigh impossible is about right. I'm not enthusiastic, but also thinking 'this seems to be basically working, let's go with it'.

mr veg has never read the comix & ses to like it so far (he is onboard w fantasy genre in general)

he said yesterday he is v amused by HOW into it i am:
literally everything else we watch i will usually make chatty comments throughout but w this i’m completely transfixed, just dead-silent wide-eyed staring at the tv like a kid

he was like, i knew you were a fan & read the comics etc but waow lol

If this show maintains its budget and production quality, the World’s End episodes might end up being the best fantasy TV ever created tbh

omg yes

I stopped reading comics for a few years when I was 18 or so - so I dropped out of The Sandman during the early issues, came back during World's End. Became obsessed. I would love to see those stories done with this level of nous.

I only really remember the trichobezoar from Calliope, so I say fine, do it, it introduced me to a weird concept or two.

I've never read the comics and I'm enjoying the show greatly. And I wasnt hugely into Good Omens, and completely gave up on American Gods, so.

The whole diner bottle episode was strange and transfixing. Almost Lynchian?
Kirby Howell-Baptiste is gorgeously empathetic as Death. That scene where she takes Dream around her "days work" was sweet and sad.

I'm baffled by some of the IMDB reviews. Peoplesaying "Ive never read the comics, but why is this going off on some random storyline". Well it ISNT which you'd know if you had read the comics ffs.

Pretty fantastic. I need to work out why I keep falling asleep in front of it. & then have to deal with a set up that appears to be rewinding then starts playing from the point I rewound from. Pretty frustrating. Do I need more space in the memory stick.

Eventually got to see the bit I'd missed though. But think that's happened to like 4 episodes now. & it is a show I'm enjoying. Has been at different times of day too.
maybe fitting if it's a show about Morpheus but still annoying.

I need to work out why I keep falling asleep in front of it.

The clue is in the title, Stevolende

lol

It's not brilliant, but it's so much better than I would have expected. If anything my partner (who likes Gaiman but hasn't read the comics) was more into it than me.

I've only seen a few episodes but the only noticeable disappointment was the CGI for the Dreaming, which looks a bit kludgy so far.

Sturridge doesn't have much to do but glower, but thank goodness he's good at that, because that's pretty much 100% of the character. Look forward to seeing what he does in Season of Mists, where he has a lot more dialogue iirc, and will need to try a bit harder. Sort of reminded me of RPattz take on Batman.

Really looking forward to see how they do Season of Mists, my favourite volume (is that the usual choice?). The first 40 issues are basically burned into my brain from so much teenage re-reading -- although I got bored and quit around Brief Lives.

If I felt mean, I'd say that there's an element to some of Gaiman's work that makes it feel like "power-pop fantasy", i.e. a slightly ersatz recreation of earlier, purer material, created for an audience of ageing, knowing nerds who like identifying all the references. But then I remember how much I enjoyed reading Sandman as "My First Adult Fantasy Book" as a 13-year-old, so maybe that's not right.

Gaiman is perfect for that age imo - I also read him a lot as a teen and grew out of it by my early 20s. I discovered him via Terry Pratchett though, so never read Sandman, only the novels/short stories. ‘Power pop fantasy’ is a good way to describe his work - he’s a good gateway to better, older SFF, many of which he’s riffing off anyway.

I also liked this show a lot but didn’t love it, mostly because I didn’t quite buy Sturridge as omnipotent eternal being - he’s got the cheekbones and looks fabulous in every scene but didn’t quite have the presence/gravitas? but as you said, he didn’t have much to do. Morpheus seemed to me very typical of a Gaiman protagonist in that sense - a cipher through which the audience is introduced to more interesting situations/characters.

This I’ll watch the first episode tonight.

If memory serves, I started reading during “A Game of You” (haunting as fuck) and then stuck around for many issues and art teams, beyond the point where I’d lost interest.

I haven't heard if there is automatically a 2nd season happening yet or anything. Is this going to continue?
Hoping it does work through a bit more anyway.
Did start reading the comic again from the start.

(Correction - I started with “Brief Lives”.)

I've only seen a few episodes but the only noticeable disappointment was the CGI for the Dreaming, which looks a bit kludgy so far.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought this. It all looks very much like people standing against a CGI'ed background. The "outdoor" scenes in London look similarly flat and clearly green-screened, which is disappointing when you think of the amount of money that's been spent on it. But I am very much enjoying it otherwise. I think Sturridge is doing a good job. He's got that super-dry sense of humour down.

Bf pointed out last night that "Netflix hasn't renewed a single series past 2nd second since 2017" which makes me pessimistic

I re-read Season of Mists last night and felt further pessimism when I remembered that one of the primary narrative weaknesses of vol. 1 and 2 of the comics (which comprise the first season of the show) is an over-reliance on straight-forward conflicts and action sequences, which make for compelling television. Season, despite being one of the best arcs in the comic series, is so devoid of actual conflict (and zero action!) that I fear that the adaptation will not make for compelling watching for casual viewers

What does make me optimistic I guess is seeing that Gaiman is one of the exec producers

Season of Mists is like one of those TNG episodes where everything gets solved by a long meeting in Picard's office, except in hell. Could be a two-parter really.

Gaiman can't be ignorant of the Netflix cancellation situation, one wonders if/hopes he has a backup plan

xpost That's not true re renewals, is it? They've premiered and renewed plenty of stuff since then, iirc. Umbrella Academy, The Witcher, Russian Doll, Outer Banks, Bridgerton ...

I agree the first volume is sort of weak and out-of-character with the rest of the series, and it's still a bit like he's playing Alan Moore's sandpit. But I always found Doll's House really enjoyable, and missed it when the series moved on from that vibe to be "decompressed"

I hope they do they boy detective stuff

this is their big tentpole ongoing series at this point, so I think the assumption is they will see it through to the end, but looking at all the fluctuations with netflix' stock and the industry as a whole I wouldn't count on it.

Yeah

I'm surprised that some people are put off by the diversity of tone and plot vectors, like The X-Files and Doctor Who never existed

I think if it makes it to Brief Lives I'll be happy - but on the other hand it would be interesting to see a version of the Kindly Ones which isn't Gaiman paddling in place for half of it.

I am excited for this even though I remember essentially nothing concrete about the comics, although I am concerned my partner will think it is bad (in which case I will never make time to watch it on my own).

I found it confusing and exposition-heavy but my partner followed it easy enough, so I dunno

Is it bad? IMO, as with Good Omens, Gaiman doesn't really understand how TV narrative works, but the resulting mess is interesting, and because it's so visibly "authored", it avoids the usual streaming show shapelessness

The only misstep, I felt, was throwing in a ham-fisted "omg! Desire is the dad?" moment at the end. Originally this detail was subtle and cool and un-telegraphed, Dream just thinks about it and puts it together himself. Here, Unity mentioning her "golden-eyed love" as the penultimate thing she speaks before passing, followed by shots of Desire's mug, it was really, really annoying

That's not true re renewals, is it? They've premiered and renewed plenty of stuff since then, iirc. Umbrella Academy, The Witcher, Russian Doll, Outer Banks, Bridgerton ...

Russian Doll hasn't had a third commissioned afaik, but Lyonne is perhaps more interested in her not-Columbo series Poker Face with Rian Johnson (same)

IMO, as with Good Omens, Gaiman doesn't really understand how TV narrative works

Gaiman is not in charge of this fwiw, more of a The Dreaming role - he was showrunning Good Omens S2 and Anansi Boys in Scotland. Young Avengers blokey is the Sandman showrunner.

I hope they do they boy detective stuff
They appeared on an episode of Doom Patrol, and a spin-off series has been announced. HBOMax tho.

First episode was... okay? The score is distractingly bad as was the Dreaming CGI, non-CGI parts have the sheen of a British house style (Sherlock, Frankenstein, etc.) that I really dislike.

Yeah I felt that BBCesque Sherlock/DR Who feel also?

The score is distractingly bad as was the Dreaming CGI

This series seems unscorable, though. Impossible to really have a single "language" in a world so frayed. I hope they up their licensing budget, part of the appeal of the comic series was all the little pop culture inserts. Smiled wide at the US Girls sync! yay team

Episode 6 delivers <3

xp - it may well get better in future episodes if there's more variety. I hate big soaring Hans Zimmer strings (louder than any piece of actual dialogue or action) and episode 1 went there too often - especially in any tracking shot of the Dreaming. Maybe I'm stereotyping Neil Gaiman and Vertigo Comics but I wanted minimal and goth-y even in this episode mostly set in the '20s.

I was wondering if the Dreaming was actually supposed to look a bit unreal and have dramatic soundtrack to highlight the nature of the place while Morpheus was running it prior to his abduction. Like CGI not supposed to be quite a realistic rendering of an actuality but a little off because it's dream or something along those lines.

Yeah in that vein, in the very last scene in ep 10, Lucifer is holding court with all of what I assume is Hell's demons/some kind of demon council? But it was shown as this almost cartoony black ragged tear in the air, with evil grinning mouths in it. Like a comic sketch! I have to assume it was intentional but it did look strange.

Hid cos I dont know who hasnt caught up yet.

That sounds like how DC used to portray the Lords of Chaos back in the late 80s

yeah a bit - the all-teeth mouths in particular.

That's one character and that how they looked in the comics, tbh.

*that's how they looked

@ Trayce

Yes and I couldn't help but think like "are they setting up viewers unfamiliar with the series for the expectation of some eye-popping showdown?" because that is the opposite of "welp I'm going to the beach see ya"

I liked the comics well enough back in the day (issue 50 is a masterpiece, I think) but...couldn't get past the first episode of this ? Something tonally off in this for me. Looks great and all but that's just about it. Should I stick with it? Or rewatch both seasons of Rome for the umpteenth time?

somehow I've never read the comics, but I'm enjoying the show so far, now I want to go back and read them. The CGI isn't perfect, but I think this show looks way better than a lot of other fantasy and comic adaptations I've watched recently.

This may well be one of the most goth shows ever. Dream can be a bit uninteresting, but he gets a lot of mileage out of his constant pout, and all the supporting characters are great.

I watched the diner episode last night and it really caught me by surprise. About 2/3 of the way through I was getting very restless, it felt like bad Sartrean drama that wasn't going anywhere. But of course it all goes nicely off the rails and then ties back with the greater story in a very impressive and gnarly way.

I had forgotten me and my housemates in college went to Halloween as most of The Endless in about 1997! Good memories. This series is a delight. I love how much darkness they're getting away with tbh? I haven't enjoyed the specific gore elements but I appreciate how they define the stakes and boundaries.

Watched the first ep last night and my partner is in, hooray. She did note that hazy, gauzy quality that a lot of Netflix shows seem to be using these days, and is hoping for a bit more humor to it, but is down to see where it goes.

She also asked if I thought Dream looked like Ow3n P@ll3t, lol.

I was distracted thinking Dream would turn around and be Neil Gaiman.

*cough* I think he very closely resembles one P4trick W0lf, myself

Just seeing some shorts being released on torrent sites today. Not watched them yet but sounds interesting.

The episode with the walk with Death and Dream Makes A Friend is quite beautiful (but like, could have skipped the soaring "feel something now" strings when Morpheus calls him friend).

I want a series about giant sentient cats dominating humanity.

<3

i'm only three episodes in but idk so far it hasn't displayed any capacity for psychedelia, otherwise it's fine and better than expected, and i especially enjoyed the ways they rewrote the narrative of preludes

i just wish it looked cooler and had a score that wasn't a tv show score

i'm rereading the comics rn, i suppose the direct comparison isn't helping me digest the show as its own thing

casting is otm tho

yeah the normcore aspects were a bit :/ but not in a distracting, bothersome way
but the show def suffers under immediate comparison

i agree on the score … like a trent/atticus thing would have been cool? or some other old ex-goth lol

Yeah, felt like it deserved the Clint Mansell treatment, like the trippy bits in The Fountain.

I’m not sure about that weird stretching thing going on in the camerawork, like a random instagram filter. I keep thinking I’ve got my TV set at the wrong aspect ratio (unless I have, in which case move this post to the absent-mindedness thread).

Dream Makes A Friend def the best ep, partially because it doesn't demand anything much in terms of special effects (which will always look cooler in a comic).

was charmed by the changes they made to the preludes arc in order to omit the dc universe characters. less charmed by what they've done to the doll's house to achieve the same thing

casting remains for the most part dope, especially the uncanny valley decisions they made for fiddler's green and fun land that legit make it feel like my favorite comic book is coming to life. on the opposite end of things however... not thrilled with the performances of the ppl playing rose and hippolyta

i think in general i dislike how unwilling this show is to make anyone unsympathetic bc there are v unsympathetic characters in sandman... and that's ok

I don’t think we’ve seen the range that Lyta’s character has to offer, yet; and Rose was pretty specifically by the book in my estimation

Well Morpheus himself is pretty unsympathetic! That poor gargoyle.

Fiddler's Green the first time in ages I've not found Stephen Fry insufferable.

morpheus does many bad things! which is why i think having endless, pointless conversations with lucien in the library about whether or not the fuckin dream vortex is causing rifts in the fucking dreaming are doing way too much work to show us dream is changing

john dee was also made into a much more confusing and muddled character and arguably trying to make him more sympathetic made him... less so? idk

i'm all for this show being different from the comic but then it does things like directly transcribe the hob gadling issue

I much preferred Netflix's John Dee... in re-reading the original books after watching the Netflix series I was struck by how many "improvements" there were to be made, that I hoped the series would address-- chief amongst them the way the original series felt a need to tip its hat to the DC universe with such frequency, Gaiman's rather-dated gender politics, and a general weirdness about sex

Netflix's disintegrationist John Dee walked a fine line between sociopathic and moralistic and I thought it was one of the greatest successes of the adaptation

eh agree to disagree

i would be much more forgiving if the show gave me any visuals to dine on

afaic the only real "bleahhhh" misstep so far was the unnecessary and un-artful "Desire fucked Unity" reveal.

Considering how hokey the Jake stuff could've been I thought it was really sweet and fun

And yeah I agree that the series is lacking a certain sumptuousness

how fuckin ugly is lyta's dead husband's dream house tho

Not really reading the thread closely to avoid spoilers (I know, but I only read really scattered issues of this from a friend back in the day), I'm surprised that my wife, knowing absolutely nothing about the source material, absolutely loves the show.

yeah it was pretty hideous
reminded me of the ugliest stuff on worlds most extraordinary homes lol

xpost

Lol. So much of the acting is so specifically bad, in the same way, even from some decent actors, that it must be intentional, right? I don't know if they're trying to convey a surreal "this all might be a dream" feeling even in the "real world" scenes, a sense of comic book-ness, or trying to attain some sort of Twin Peaks uncanniness, but I'm not sure that it works.

just to say something nice i want to say that the guy playing the corinthian fucking nailed it

he was so good!!

My wife was into this and I thought the first several episodes were excessive and bad CGI, but the diner episode and the episode with Death were really amazing. Love that they are already departing from the overarching plot to do 1-2 episode contained stories.

The diner story and the Death story came at the exact same points in the comics - the Hob Gadling story was a diversion in the middle of The Doll's House, but made sense paired with The Sound Of Her Wings here.

In terms of representation, my wife was not too happy that despite all the care taken to race and gender the show's take on Despair was still "a fat woman".

Isnt she in the comics as well? What if they'd made Despair slim? That seems like it'd be worse!

Yes she's like that in the comic - but the show changes the gender and ethnicity of all sorts of characters, so it's weird they left this one as is.

Interesting interview with a staff writer

https://gizmodo.com/netflix-sandman-neil-gaiman-vanessa-benton-interview-1849563633

It's nearly Time...
But for what? pic.twitter.com/wJsXkMEA1k

— Neil Gaiman (@neilhimself) September 28, 2022

gaiman is rebooting days of our lives?

It's the third volume of Sandman on Audible, I think?

his reply tweet says "for this" and spruiks the third volume of Sandman on Audible.

(Twitter rarely now allows public viewing of threads.)

It's really wonderful to see this show 20 years after reading the comics. I barely remember the details anymore, just that the comic had imaginative stories and frequently went places I didn't expect. Those aspects carry the show nicely through some not-great acting here and there. Hope this gets enough seasons to finish it out

And it looks like we get a season 2!

Cool! Season of Mists feels really challenging to make work for TV but so far I'd say they've done as good a job at a Sandman adaptation as one could imagine.