Herbie Hancock

Wow that's one of those songs I've heard a million times but never out of context, always after Watermelon Man. What a complete jam it is.

Takes so little to decontextualize a tune and make it sound fresh. Thanks!

i've been really into dis is da drum and future 2 future lately, i am speaking out of my depth here but i feel like jazzy dnb can't get much better than the second half of future 2 future? dis is da drum is prob thought of as the corniest possible engagement with hip-hop and dance music by a jazz dude but it actually rules and is smooth and gorgeous

only discourse about either record in this thread is by tuomas which makes some kind of sense

the 2cd edition of F2F has an excellent joe claussell suite of the essence track.
listed as seperate remixes, but i seem to recall that it all flows as one long track.

https://www.discogs.com/release/386161-Herbie-Hancock-Future-2-Future-The-Essence-Mixes

Goddammit, now I have to pull that down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msI-_PGCOiQ

I heard it's quite the cocktail when you mix it up with Ron Carter and Wayne Shorter's. Those three have amazing chemistry.

beet! wise! ya gat ta realise
that i don't apologise
for ma lifestyle

https://www.vinylmeplease.com/collections/anthology/products/the-story-of-herbie-hancock?variant=32913584980058

kind of priecy

No Mwandishi = incomplete story

The Song remains the same

There's already a Mwandishi book, I think!

speaking of, not sure if this has been posted before or talked about here. a bootleg i return to again and again. mwandishi band in detroit, 10.8.72

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PZrr2Wuxcw

the vinyl me please people belong in the shady scams thread imo

agree. with a little patience, $349 should be plenty for clean original copies of the first six (last two never released on vinyl iirc)

granted, > 80% of that $349 is going to go into the first two of those six

There's already a Mwandishi book, I think!

There is; You'll Know When You Get There: Herbie Hancock and the Mwandishi Band, by Bob Gluck. It's supposed to be excellent.

what a bizarre hodgepodge of albums/eras in that VMP set

100%

Aren’t some of those available in pretty nice recent blue note editions? Tone poet or the classic series?

Paying for the unboxing experience

i mean i guess if you want a brand new mint copy for playing (on a rega with bamboo needle connected to headphone tube amp connected to beyerdynamic headphones etc etc) with absolute minimum surface noise this makes sense

on a broader level that mindset doesn't make any sense to me at all, but to each their own

That Gluck book contains lots of insights from the Mwandishi band members into the formation and dissolution of the group. Keeping the band on the road improved the music but was economically disastrous.

I've been listening to Bennie Maupin's second solo album, Slow Traffic to the Right from 1977. It's much closer to fusion than his debut on ECM, but still tasteful, without pandering to an audience who probably weren't going to buy anyway. He does slightly more funky versions of the two pieces he contributed to Hancock's Crossings.

"Nice box overall, a variety of authenticity issues with the reproduction jackets but overall an excellent set. Very happy with the pressings, *except* for Side A of the Piano, which on my copy has visible and audible pressing defects causing loud distortion making Side A unlistenable. Have contacted VMP for a hopeful replacement disc."

uh oh!

https://www.discogs.com/release/18471535-Herbie-Hancock-The-Story-of-Herbie-Hancock

I wonder what they would charge to just download it all as FLAC

haha hopeless

I very much doubt a repress will ever surpass an original sonically, also originals obv a better investment

I've never heard this soundtrack before today. It sort of bridges the gap between the Mwandishi stuff and the Headhunters stuff, mixed with his other soundtrack work to my ears
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xG8-7mY2Zs

That movie’s at the top of my to-watch list rn

I saw that movie about 3 months ago and I loved it. Truly radical stuff. It's the kind of movie you read about and think "great premise but surely it doesn't do it justice," but for once IT DOES DO IT JUSTICE!

Watching Hancock's episode of Elvis Costello's Spectacle after watching Smokey Robinson's, and it's wonderful to hear how both men had someone that was kind of looking out for them.

Robinson has two great stories about that: 1) First, Berry Gordy approached him after witnessing the Miracles' failed audition because he noticed they were playing unfamiliar songs (everyone else auditioned with well-known hits). Turns out Robinson wrote them - Gordy wanted to hear what else he had, and after critiquing his songs, he offered to mentor Robinson and show him how to write, which he did. 2) A disastrous rehearsal at the Apollo was saved by headliner Ray Charles because the Miracles didn't bring any arrangements, much to the venue's displeasure, and when Charles heard them getting chewed out, he stepped in and learned AND arranged their songs right on the spot.

With Hancock, he talks a bit about Donald Byrd, who hired him and later told him "you're ready to make your own album" and got him a deal with Blue Note while guiding him on what that would be like. Then one day he tells a skeptical Hancock that Miles Davis is looking for him and says "if Miles asks, tell him you're NOT working with anybody." Hancock doesn't think it'll happen, but he adds he can't imagine leaving Byrd because he's already done so much for him - he basically owes everything he has to Byrd. Byrd's response - "I couldn't look at myself in the mirror if I knew I stood in the way of a great opportunity to your career." (Personal note, it may not be show business, but I've had friends who were screwed over by vindictive employers when they tried to pursue other opportunities - not out of greed but simply to work a salary that'll actually pull them out of debt instead of sinking further into it - so Byrd's explanation is all the more touching for that reason.) 30 minutes later, Miles himself does indeed call and ask "are you working with anyone now?" and Hancock says "No." Hancock then calls his friend Tony Williams (Hancock is 23, Williams is 17), and Williams says he got the call too. They're both elated and it's great how Hancock gets that across - you really get what it must've felt like for them when they were still so young and relative unknowns albeit gainfully employed.

I interviewed him a few years back and he spoke about this, and a bunch of other stuff too. He's a fantastic interviewee - hard to believe he's in his 80s now.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2022/jun/24/herbie-hancock-miles-davis-told-me-i-dont-pay-you-to-get-applause

Thanks for the link Stevie! And yes, absolutely - I saw him a few years ago and kept thinking "he's the same age as some people I know back home and the difference in physical health and appearance couldn't be more different."

I genuinely think it's the Buddhism!

Apparently that all started with Buster Williams. They asked him how he managed to keep his energy up so high after long shows, touring etc. and that’s what he told them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AE-EabHu0U

This track is hot af

otm

As is this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ttlYJeva7w

Came across this brutal takedown by Peter Margasak.

Gary Giddins's criticism is no surprise - he's always been very open about how much he hates fusion, whether it involves rock, R&B and/or funk elements. I didn't realize how much Margasak hated Hancock's post-Blue Note work. He doesn't mention Head Hunters by name, but I was stunned that he lumped that album into "the drop-off" after Sextant that is "so dramatic, so absolute" - personally, it's easily the '70s Hancock album that I hold in highest regard. (In fairness, outside of Head Hunters, I'm much more partial towards Hancock's '60s work as well. Between everything he did for Blue Note and Miles Davis, it would've been extremely difficult to surpass.)

One minor point - he doesn't go too much into detail about Hancock's work on Round Midnight for which Hancock won an Oscar (not a Grammy as Margasak writes), but nobody should mistake that as dilettantism, especially one driven by calculated marketability. For starters, it's an art film directed by a French arthouse auteur (Bertrand Tavernier) rather than anyone known for commercial work. The budget was $3 million which even in 1986 wasn't a lot for an international period piece. More importantly, there were NO film stars - Tavernier had to push hard to cast real-life jazz great Dexter Gordon in the lead role, and regardless of his accomplishments and talents, that didn't mean he was a box office draw, especially when he had very little experience acting in films. And Hancock knew Gordon - he even played on Hancock's debut album (by which point Gordon was already an established jazz great). In addition to Hancock's background in film scoring - going back to the '60s! - it was natural and more than logical for Tavernier to consider Hancock as the film composer. The fact that both Gordon and Hancock would be up for Oscars was kind of a fluke - nobody predicted that when they signed on for the movie.

I love Mwandishi and Crossings, like Sextant a lot, but something about the sound of Head Hunters repels me. Everything is now flanged and phased and the synth tones are nearly as bad as Zawinul's. I mean to listen to his next couple of records but my hopes aren't high, but not because "Herbie abandoned jazz" or whatever these sorts of critics say.

very offtm, you should go get that checked out

Like I said upthread I think the Bennie Maupin solo albums are better explorations of a more commercial sort of electric jazz.

Head Hunters’ version of “Watermelon Man” was on the jazz station when my clock radio went off yesterday. What a weird, funky way to wake up.

lol Margasak. When he was the Reader's music critic, and Rosenbaum the film critic, that was some peak '90s snobbery (bless em both).

I don't love Head Hunters either. That band improved on Thrust and Man-Child and especially Flood.

Head Hunters is incredible and I love how it sounds (so spacious even with everything that's going on, probably because everything is so dry), but it's a bit hard to hear after countless jam session versions of Chameleon and Watermelon Man. Still, Thrust >>>>>

Has anyone caught the current tour? I know I should go, I mean it's probably our last chance to see him.

Btw I just happened to read this about Round Midnight recently, a blog from Kirk Lightsey, who played piano for Dexter Gordon for a number of years:

Back in New York when Dexter was working on the movie “Round Midnight,” he didn’t call me for the gig. There was a pecking order and a placement in NY at the time. There were people in line for that gig before me. Herbie Hancock and Cedar Walton . . .. So many fingers. For the movie, of course, I had been playing for five years with Dexter, so I was on the list. But I wasn’t high enough up in the pecking order. For the movie or the pecking order.
https://www.coming-and-going.com/post/how-it-all-ended-with-dexter

His performance at Big Ears was full of energy and the band killed it (esp Lionel Loueke on guitar). The set was on the 70s fusion-y side. He even played "Come Running to Me"!

I can definitely see why some might find the Headhunters era sound offputting. There's something a bit shrill or nasal bout it btw the soprano sax and wah guitar and clavinet type tones. I'm only in the right mood for it sometimes.

In my experience Headhunters is one of those recs that ppl with no jazz experience REALLY enjoy (as opposed to say Kind of Blue where the response is much more dutiful). It’s got some bangin’ tunes and is v funky, I can understand why it’s a hit, I love it too.

it's news to me that anybody doesn't like the Head Hunters LP

seriously

It's definitely news to me that anyone doesn't like that record but likes Thrust and Man-Child. A take I haven't heard.