Van Morrison: your views please

Fans should get The Philosopher's Stone - it includes a ton of outtakes. Altogether, if you took like the seven best outtakes and included the single, "Warm Love," I think the final result would've been another masterpiece for Van. I was never that crazy about what he ended up submitting, it's kind of a so-so album to me.

(IIRC he considered making it a double LP. Wonder what that would've been.)

Something like...

Side A:
Warm Love
Wonderful Remark
Madame Joy
Contemplation Rose

Side B:
Not Supposed to Break Down
There There Child
Drumshanbo Hustle
Try for Sleep

...I'd really enjoy. There's probably a few other songs that would've been great too. He cut a great cover of Fleetwood Mac/Christine McVie's "Spare Me a Little" that I would've loved. (It hasn't been officially released. The bootleg sounds like it came from a cassette dubbed from a dub, etc.)

Ah, from Clinton Heylin's book (via Wikipedia):

Recorded during a series of prolific recording sessions, there was more than enough material to fill a double-album. Morrison proposed the idea to Warner Bros. Records, but he was ultimately convinced to release a single LP. During the recording sessions held between August and November 1972, there were nearly thirty songs recorded in all, at least three-quarters of them original compositions. A few leftover tracks were saved or re-recorded for future albums like Veedon Fleece, but most would not see release until 1998's compilation of outtakes, The Philosopher's Stone, when nine of the songs would be used. Biographer Clinton Heylin suggested that "only 'Warm Love' and 'Hard Nose the Highway' could have sat comfortably alongside 'rejects' like 'Madame Joy', 'Bulbs', 'Spare Me a Little', 'Country Fair', 'Contemplation Rose' and 'Drumshanbo Hustle'."

xpost that's a great track list from Philosopher's Stone. I've got several of those tunes on my Van playlist.

Just because... Van & Dylan in Athens playing Foreign Window.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtqB6JSiHNg

Johnny Winter ended up with one of those outtakes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH3ha9O1EjQ

Winter had some great connections back then, as his prior album had "Silver Train" before the Stones and his next album had a then-unreleased John Lennon song.

xxp thanks! That whole collection is really worth getting. I wish he followed through on a volume two!

I just listened to all those you posted. So good! Hadnt heard any of them. Do you not like purple heather?

^love me some purple heather

I like "Purple Heather" - this was actually my introduction to "Wild Mountain Thyme"! I was just leaning towards originals when I slapped that track list together.

ah i see. thanks for that list, again.

You're welcome! Again, I wish I knew what that double LP would have looked like - I imagine it would include everything that was released on Hard Nose.

Somebody tryna give him a vax https://t.co/s9bKatSc8l

— Don Allred (@0wlred) September 1, 2022

I was at the barbershop this morning and heard a cover of "Have I Told You Lately" that I didn't recognize. Sounded weirdly like Elvis. Or, rather, it sounded like someone trying to sound like Elvis.

I Shazamed and found that it is precisely that: KINGTINUED is a band that does modern covers as Elvis would, presumably, have done them if he were, y'know, alive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24wMa8k_JyA

Kingtinued also has done "Yesterday" and "Achy Breaky Heart."

I would recommend that you not listen to Kingtinued. I was able to get through 29 seconds of "Candle in the Wind" before I died of grief and shame. I am posting this from beyond the grave. Thxbye.

CRINGEtinued, more like

The singer does a passable Elvis, but the backing track sounds like cookie-cutter synth presets. I was thinking the other day, when being bombarded by Rick Astley for the umpteenth time, that Elvis could've done a mean cover of "Never Gonna Give You Up".

But how would he have handled “Why Are You On Facebook?”

man’s a cunt, always has been

Speaking of cringey covers, using Van's cover of "Comfortably Numb" for the sex scene in a movie ("The Departed," I think?) kinda hits a high mark of cringe.

I kinda like Van + the Band + Roger Waters version. There's a live version from a 1990 show on youtube. But as soundtrack to a sex scene, yeah, that would be pretty cringe.

I haven’t listened to inarticulate speech in awhile but “irish heartbeat” randomly sailed back into my head this week and it’s a little weird how apt it is for shit I’m dealing with right now. God I love 80s Van, so gentle and spiritual

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiCbNCy0bbg

FWIW, Van came up during the first show of Elvis Costello's Gramercy residency (which was awesome). He mentioned how he and Allan Mayes, his friend and partner in Rusty, bonded over their mutual love of Van Morrison. He then covered "Domino," demonstrating afterwards how that great guitar lick inspired one of his own songs (forgot which, but it would've been an early song). He then snuck in the remark "...before (Van) went crazy," which got a huge laugh, and he then politely added, "he's a comedian, that's what he is." On a later number, he segued one of his own songs into "Jackie Wilson Said."

Apart from extreme cases, I don't tend to make definitive decisions about the 'separate the art from the artist' thing, but I've practically given up with Van. I never put a record on and if he comes up on various playlists, I find myself skipping after a few seconds. It's kind of brutal, tbh.

That probably sounds insensitive in light of brimstead's post. I hope things get easier for you.

Bird - maybe "Pay It Back"?

That's the only EC song that I can think of that has an echo of "Domino."

I mean

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SEu2e12x1w

"Deep Dark Truthful Mirror" used to get mistaken for a Van Morrison song pretty regularly.

That probably sounds insensitive in light of brimstead's post. I hope things get easier for you.

I actually have the easiest time separating the art from the artist in Van's case than anyone else. He's always been a fairly disagreeable little troll and it's a minor miracle that the universe decided to channel that magic through him. I don't really feel like his music has anything to do with him or even belongs to him.

Bird - maybe "Pay It Back"?

That's the only EC song that I can think of that has an echo of "Domino."

It just occurred to me to look up the setlist - it was actually "Living in Paradise" (which I think may have been demoed before the Attractions came into he picture, even though it ultimately appeared on This Year's Model).

And I think I'm in the same boat with UMS. To be fair, I don't have any interest in listening to his post-COVID records or to go to anymore shows, but it's always been understood that there's something seriously wrong with him mentally and it's a big reason why he will always be a terrible and unpredictable person. The fact he's created so much transcendent music is miraculous.

I can buy into the notion of Van as a conduit. I think the difference between mythically grumpy and abusive twat Van and modern Van is proximity & social media. The former is distant, avoidable, the vagaries of emotional control part of the mythos; the latter is blunt and ugly and precisely the kind of twat I avoid at all costs - and it's right there in my face. Am very much hoping it will pass.

Bird - Interesting. I don't immediately hear that in "Living in Paradise" but I will think about it.

"Deep Dark Truthful Mirror" used to get mistaken for a Van Morrison song pretty regularly.

Really? Maybe because of the brass.

But Elvis uses approximately fifteen times as many words as Van.

Elvis is like

Now the flagstone streets where the newspaper shouts
Ring to the boots of roustabouts

Whereas Van is like

Sha la la la la la la la la la la tee dah

Both of these cranky singers have their place.

But I think part of EC's rhetorical purpose here has to do with claiming Irishness as an essential part of his identity - a point on which he sometimes protests too much. Sometimes he appears embarrassed by how English he is, and uses Ireland as a fig leaf. But that strays from the thread topic rather a lot.

To circle back, I am also done with Van. He made some pretty catchy records, sure, but he has overstayed his welcome from the public sphere. The planet would be okay if he just fucking vanished.

Greg Kot said he once saw Van Morrison punch out one of his band members on the way off the stage. Anyone see this? It probably would've been a Chicago-area concert, though I know Kot sometimes covered shows out-of-state.

xp hey found a clip of that moment in the show!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuZfu9XvBzw

Prior to the anti vax crap, I'd say Van probably put out as reliably good new records as any old classic rocker, maybe save Dylan. His voice is still in remarkable shape for his age and the fact he seems like perpetually out of shape alcoholic.

I guess I really came around Van as conduit when I finally read about the making of Astral Weeks, which I thought was probably some kind of mystical group seance to find out he barely acknowledged or spoke to anyone and did his vocals from the booth while they played in the studio.

xp (not "Domino" but "Living in Paradise," adding the joke "maybe (Van)'ll sue me.")a

I think Greil Marcus was right about Roll with the Punches, it's a pretty excellent album. I wasn't taken by Keep Me Singing but Roll with the Punches somehow came off like a great afterhours show where he just did as few new songs and a lot of old standards. On paper I never would have expected it - "it's over an hour (probably too long) and he's already released covers of some of these songs" - but I loved the entire album.

I liked Keep Me Singing actually...Three Chords and Truth is pretty good, Magic Time from 05. I guess I always find a few gems, not that I go back to them often.

I get the impression a lot of fans like Keep Me Singing - a lot them single it out as his real comeback, but something about it felt kind of lifeless to me, like he was sapped of energy. I'll give it another try though.

I love “out in the cold again” from keep me singing

“In between the times where it feels alright
To the dead of the cold black night”

i once saw van walk off stage in the middle of a song, not to return, after he had done his contractual 45 minutes. he didn't punch anyone afaik but the bandmembers he left vamping looked mighty perplexed. luckily rockpile had done a killer opening set so i didn't feel too ripped off.

Re: the conduit reading of Van. Okay I guess but I just want to have this mystique applied consistently.

Musicians like him don't have a monopoly on soulfulness / spirituality / mysticism.

Like, if Van Morrison gets to be a "conduit," then so does Paula Abdul or Garth Brooks or Morris Day or Johannes Brahms or Erykah Badu or whomsoever.

He's always been a fairly disagreeable little troll and it's a minor miracle that the universe decided to channel that magic through him. I don't really feel like his music has anything to do with him or even belongs to him

Sums up my feelings as well. It’s even more remarkable that he has recorded some of the most joyous music around.

I've been having a bit of a problem with Van lately myself. I likely will get over it, but it's been harder than I realized.

Really? Maybe because of the brass.

That, and the vocal style is very Morrisonesque.

Okay, I can see that, in the shouts growled chorus.

Elvis is like five times as smart as Van, not that it does him any good

finally getting around to some 80s van and damn how the fuck was i even living before i heard "beautiful vision"????

yuuuup

I taped a King Biscuit concert of his, about 1991, off the radio. Unfortunately my boombox was wonky and recorded at the wrong speed. Consequently that was the only machine on which I could play that recording.

Van was, in my view, at the height of his mid-career powers, and he had an an excellent backing band. Basically the "Wavelength" album, plus the way he was performing his earlier material in exactly that moment.

Exquisite. Before that, he was underbaked. After that, too much. It was exactly right.

gotta love Vanlose Stairway

90s Van rules ok too, I have a particular weak spot for The Healing Game