Beyoncé - Renaissance

Surprised at some of the responses here but all my favs are in the back half. “Cozy”, for a record with Raphael saadiq and Nile rodgers, sounds like it would have been comfortable on the lizzo album. I’m surprised people see it as a highlight

which isn’t to say that i begrudge the opinion that “cuff it” is trad & a bit boring compared to other songs on this album. i feel differently but i understand that POV. but i also think comparing it to lizzo is kinda like the lizzo version of an opinion

re lizzo, "about that time" is a jam

Seconded. She gave us "Love Drought" on her last record that totally did this, so glad we get another. Although, I'm hardly an objective source, as I don't think I've ever heard a song with those chord progressions and a propulsive-yet-chill beat that I did not like, whether it was from Steely Dan's "Deacon Blues", Janet Jackson's "Funny How Time Flies", Rush's "High Water", the Japanese House's "Lilo", the middle section of "Close To The Edge", etc. Before a Nilufer Yanya show, the bar played three amazing newish examples of this template that I have to thank Shazam for ID'ing for me (Softcult's "Gloomy Girl", Trace's "Suddenly Emotions Fall”, and Felivand’s "Midsummer Sun"). Are we in a golden age of this genre/style? It appears so!

Beautiful post, I live for this "vibe" (and "Love Drought" was my favorite track from Lemonade. That Japanese House song and the tracks you Shazam'd are new to me, so thanks for that.

Hell yeah! I'm waiting for Beyonce to do the full buttery-major-7ths album, but then again, the full-on screaming ["WHO THE FUCK DO YOU THINK I AM!?" in "Don't Hurt Yourself" makes me really want to hear her fronting a punk-rock band

I've given this a first listen, and it's definitely the first Bey album I've given a shit about. The first half is fantastic. Pure queer bait, and tbh as a queer woman I'm here for that. I'm hoping the second half will hit as hard with repeated exposure.

but i also think comparing it to lizzo is kinda like the lizzo version of an opinion

― J0rdan S., Saturday, July 30, 2022 12:27 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Lol come on man. You and I both know this is like the sound of every pop demo of the past 5+ years

they pretty clearly had different goals, "cuff it" feels less focused on being a hit than "about damn time", it's more relaxed & isn't really going for big hooks, & there's a few minor twists to it

but i think "about damn time" is pretty good, lizzo being corny isn't enough to really damage it so idk, i wouldn't call it less rich than "cuff it" either

i love "america has a problem", the out-of-touch a&r consultants who are currently forcing everyone and their mother to release mediocre bass revivals b/c they so desperately want black radio to gain 'tempo' again should take notes (not that "america" is going to be particularly successful but at least the production is engaging)

one of my main takeaways is how good "break my soul" sounds in the context of the album compared to being a single. the transition into it is fantastic and it has a streamlined urgency right at the heart of the album that contrasts w/ the rest of the record in a way i find really effective

― J0rdan S., Friday, 29 July 2022 20:39 (three days ago) link

Agree with this. When the song came out I was worried that Beyonce was intentionally streamlining her entire sound. The surprise is that the album is so dense that it actually benefits from that moment of sharp simplicity.

Still absorbing the album generally though.

The vocal ebullience of "Alien Superstar" has had me in a swoon the last couple days as opposed to "Virgo's Groove," which has vocal extravagance: way too much shit to keep track of.

Here for “plastic off the sofa.” Any idea who’s playing bass on this?

on "plastic off the sofa" it's the internet's bassist, patrick paige ii. it was co-written & produced by syd

Well, you got me to listen to a Beyonce song, Prefecture. A little surprised by how much I enjoyed it.

My second impression: I like it: the beats, her comfort over the opulent sampled/interpolated/stolen grooves, especially if I tune out the references to the pleasures of plutocracy.

― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, July 29, 2022 4:45 PM (three days ago)

This is kind of where I am. Seeing people with a stronger affinity for rap than I have praise "Church Girl" makes me think the problem is my jaundiced ears though, like I kept finding myself thinking "I wish there was a lot less singing on this Beyonce album" lol

On my sole listen, after 10-15 minutes I definitely started focusing more attention on the grain of the voice and the sonics than on what was being said.

Well, you got me to listen to a Beyonce song, Prefecture. A little surprised by how much I enjoyed it.

― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Monday, August 1, 2022 12:02 AM

Thanks! I was going to make a "Just trying to help a promising up-and-coming artist" joke, but then I was shocked to learn that she hasn't had a proper single reach #1 since 2009, and has had only 3 Top 10 hits in the past decade. I am really out of touch - I just assumed she was in that "Whitney/MJ/Mariah/George Michael in the late-'80s" category where most of her singles hit the top spot.

What does “rolling face” mean?

https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/beyonce-renaissance/

the face you make rolling on ecstasy I guess?

I thought that might be it…

But using her global proscenium to showcase the work of marginalized people, as the political and legal scapegoating of their existences ramps up to a terrifying degree—including draconian legislation in her home state of Texas—is important, even a rejoinder to 2014’s big FEMINIST sign moment, a subtle kiss-off to people who’ve made vilifying trans women a cornerstone of their feminism by making space for all sorts of femme expression.

That review is interesting. I've been wondering if attitudes toward "cultural appropriation" have changed (which I would welcome; I always thought cult app was an intellectual dead end, its excesses better criticized via sharper, sturdier concepts like exploitation, theft, and racism). Premature to say, but the conversation around this album suggests it might be—or is Beyonce an exceptional case due to her star power and/or impressively meticulous citation practice?

Probably not the best thread for that I guess, but I suppose what I'm wondering on-topically is whether anyone is bothered by her capitalizing on all this history? I'm cishet and not saying anyone should be bothered, tbc, I would be mostly pleased if this album was received as an act of solidarity ("mostly" since that requires ignoring the ceaseless reminders of her unfathomable wealth), but is that the case?

huh?

not a straightforward question and there's no simple answer but you can probably find every conceivable one

idk if/where it's solidarity vs largesse vs appropriation but this discussion will be happening already

I have frustrations with the way capitalism gets ignored or selectively invoked in popular social justice discourse but I'm not the person to challenge that in a productive way

I think most people see a black woman from the south making R&B as operating within the tradition she's "borrowing from" rather than appropriating. It's a bit odd to see 'appropriation' used bc she is a wealthy woman when she built her wealth *by making music*

i dunno if attitudes towards cultural appropriation have changed -- i still think it's a prevalent lens in lots of gen z online conversations -- so much as the conversation about it kinda hit a logical endpoint. it would be hard to say the concept hasn't dramatically influenced pop culture (certainly music)... we don't really have pop stars dressing up in cultural costumes, harajuku girls level appropriation anymore. so when it comes to i.e. the beyonce album you're dealing w/ a much more layered, nuanced piece of work, and resultant conversations, than the cultural appropriation of yore. rosalia is another example of someone who generates appropriation convos but it revolves around stuff like parsing out identity w/in the latin diaspora, who has ownership of music from which countries... frankly for albums like both of theirs i find it to be a pretty limiting framing but it's not like those conversations aren't happening. rosalia gets asked about arguments that she's appropriating black latin music from the caribbean despite being a white woman from spain in just about every interview. but ultimately w/ artists of that stature these conversations are not going to resonate w/ enough of the population to harm their careers or anything

i would say two things wrt beyonce. for one she does explicitly articulate the roots of her connections to this music (in her view) in the letter she put out w/ the album talking about her gay uncle. i guess some ppl may quibble w/ what that connection means in terms of her investment in these cultures but i don't personally care to do that (it's an unanswerable question). also i think it's safe to say she's long been embraced by queer black people & so i would suspect that anyone trying to gatekeep her use of ball slang or whatever are doing so while not otherwise working at the gate, so to speak.

secondly, as d-40 alludes to, her art -- music, videos, performances -- from the s/t onward has generally been a big project in examining black music and black culture from a historical perspective, elevating that culture and history to a critical mass level etc. if you include solange's recent albums/videos as well as her work outside of music & consider the way both of them talk about their mother's influence on their music in this sense, it's really been a family project in making historical black art. typically it's thru the lens of the south but it's difficult for me to see beyonce turning her eye towards dance music, ball culture as anything but an extension of what she has been doing for (at least) the last 10 years.

also w/ the wealth stuff on this album... i haven't done a close reading of every song, but on "heated" for instance her invoking of designer labels is so clearly w/in the lineage of ball culture where wealth and high fashion is woven entirely into the fabric of what those events are. "got a lot of chanel on me / gotta fan myself off", "like stolen chanel, put me up in jail" ... you only need to have watched "paris is burning" to understand the specific references she's making here. if it still rankles you to hear an incredibly rich woman lionizing wealth from the perspective of a poor kid whose POV is entirely aspirational i get it, but the context is obvious, and personally i'm willing to grant her the license of that character when the resultant music is so good

haven't done a close reading of every song, but on "heated" for instance her invoking of designer labels is so clearly w/in the lineage of ball culture where wealth and high fashion is woven entirely into the fabric of what those events are.

After blasting the album on the drive home after a road trip, I'd a lot of time to review The Beyonce Project since 2011. This album coalesces so many of her fascinations, and it's so goddamn dense while being a blast: allusive AND dance floor ready. In some ways it reminds me of Madonna tracks like "Impressive Instant" and Deee-Lite's "What is Love" and Betty Boo's "Doin' the Doo" where they babble and coo and experiment with vocals while the track undulates beneath them.

What about all this backlash over the slur in the lyrics

huh?

― xheugy eddy (D-40), Monday, August 1, 2022 2:39 PM (one hour ago)

lol sorry, I was being excessively vague because I was trying too hard to not do what J0rdan aptly summarized here:

i would suspect that anyone trying to gatekeep her use of ball slang or whatever are doing so while not otherwise working at the gate, so to speak.

So to clarify, I was specifically talking about queer (dance) cultures and wondering if the facts of Beyonce's cisness and straightness—which aren't just biographical details, they are often key to her music in some ways, and while I'm absolutely not a Beyonce scholar, I don't recall there ever being much ambiguity on these fronts—were being received as problematic appropriations of queer culture, a response I've sort of grown to expect when artists cross into cultures they don't "belong" to. Maybe I'm out of date (I mean, that was literally what I was asking), but I was surprised to see, e.g., this on NPR, which makes B metaphorically a full participant in ball culture:

If Renaissance is the theme of the ball, Beyoncé is the house mother fussin' on the balcony, the queen on the floor serving face, the spectator snapping in time and omnipotent judge all at once.

Or even in Shepherd's review, where she does a brilliant accounting of all the elements in "Pure/Honey" and concludes: "That’s years of history in just one song, and just one magnifying-glass example of the ways Beyoncé uses Renaissance to put some respect on these club legends’ names." Again, I'm not arguing that Shepherd is wrong or anything, I was just struck that this was being exclusively, afaict, interpreted as an act of respect/homage/love by critics.

The wealth mention was sort of a red herring, sorry. I was writing "I would be thrilled if this album was received as an act of radical solidarity," but I can't imagine having genuine radical solidarity with a billionaire, so I tried to qualify it. I didn't mean to imply the appropriation questions were connected to her wealth. I could go into a few specific objections to some of the lyrics, but I don't feel like doing that on ILM tbh

Anyway, many many thanks to J0rdan for a really great response!

Mostly good stuff: https://www.npr.org/2022/08/01/1114499960/revolutionary-fun-beyonce-renaissance-review-roundtable

What about all this backlash over the slur in the lyrics

― zacata, Monday, 1 August 2022 20:55 (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

rong thread!

My take is that anyone trying to roll up on Beyoncé now for alluding to and using Black gay culture in her music/imagery has never heard “Get Me Bodied”

spazz on that ass

I keep thinking Grace Jones is saying “Brockovich Brockovich Brockovich.”

^^ lol yes

Ok I'm halfway through and this is my fave Beyonce album. The first three tracks are sick, the disco song is eh, but then I'm all the way back in for Beyonce doing NOLA bounce on Church Girl. She's flirted with it before but it's fun to hear her doing classic bounce chants instead of just using a buried sample and Big Freedia on the intro. The only bummer is that most of the world will think she just invented it, but whatever.

Very curious to hear the ballroom track, I saw Kevin Jz Prodigy and Mike Q post about it.

Also, there are heavy Dirty Projectors vibes on Plastic Off the Sofa, right?

The club beats + Prince synths on Alien Superstar, swoon

It's become my favorite track.

Also, there are heavy Dirty Projectors vibes on Plastic Off the Sofa, right?

I thought of Todd Rundgren, ha. I was hoping more of the album would be like that, though. :(

Ok yeah...it definitely feels a little weird to hear Beyonce put on a ballroom mc affect on Pure. But I don't think it's as simple as cultural appropriation, given her position in the world it seems to be more like giving the ultimate seal of approval to the culture? And at least Kevin Jz and Mike Q are on the record, even if it's a sample of an old track rather than a feature or collaboration.

The new version of Energy is definitely weaker without the 'la la las' interpolated from the Kelis song.

I've ordered the CD before Beyonce can change any more of the songs...

I was going to say, at this rate the CD is going to be a collector's edition.

Quite an album. It's pretty amazing how well it flows given the variety of what's here - only a couple of the transitions take me out of the flow. "Alien Superstar" and "Virgo's Groove" are the early standouts

yeah the flow is great. i saw someone on twitter say that every time they go back to play a highlight track, they wind up letting it ride for the next five or six songs and i've had a very similar experience

I like this album a lot. Basically club-music ballads in which she can import whatever she likes, with the comfort of a signature production to rely on. I don't mind if it's all borrowed. The songs I like the least are the ones that sound most like her previous incarnations. There are enough highlights to sort them out on a table, and they leave me wishing she went harder. Agree about the flow, when was the last 16-song dance-pop album I found so consistent ?

really fun-flowing album. first 2 tracks had heavy Bjork Medulla and Debut vibes, in that order.

one thing that helps with flow is not having a bunch of skits or voice memos or w/e larding up the album

Hmmmmm. Having fired up Serato for the first time this summer I just noticed that a healthy chunk of this album is in... amapiano tempo, essentially: 108-115 bpm. Which is interesting. Just a few years ago these bpms mostly went unused. I was expecting Break my soul at the very least to be a lot closer to 120, almost by default.

I hear “Heated” as potential amapiano in my head