[Post referred to has been deleted for impersonation - yeah we know who it was. And no it wasn't Simon Reynolds). - Moderator]
― J Sutcliffe, Monday, 4 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
There's a Crispy Ambulance flexi?
Mr. Darnielle, you are a man of goodness. :-)
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 4 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Josh, Monday, 4 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― DG, Monday, 4 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Ryan, Monday, 4 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Ryan A White, Monday, 4 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
THAT'S the quote of the year, so far.
― jess, Monday, 4 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Get's my vote for best quote of the year, too.
― Alex in SF, Monday, 4 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Ben - Wasn't trying to use D&G's theory as an alibi for SR's "failure to fully understand" the lit crit terminology he uses. I've already acknowledged that D&G seem to think a thorough knowledge of the cannon is key to understanding their work. The para you quoted is not a misrepresentation of the thought of Gilles Deleuze, but a perfectly accurate representation of the thought of Matthew Cohen. I'm not misunderstanding D&G, but disagreeing with them. No one sits down with the Republic and works their way forward before daring to approach present-day philosophy. Even if such were possible (it's not - if such were the case, we would never have any "in" to philosophy, our search for the first, original thought from which we can precede forward to D&G et al would only come to an end with the ancient, indecipherable scribblings on a cave's wall), I don't agree that it's necessary. One's understanding of a given text is of course refined, improved, etc. when one reads the texts that have come before it, but this is not to say that one cannot reach any of understanding of a given text prior to achieving this refinement. The impossibility of absorbing the cannon in its entirety is reflected in the work of the very continental philosophers we're discussing - there seems to be a gaping hole in their representation of western philosophy, between Aristotle and Kant, which is filled only by Spinoza and Descartes (the latter of which seems to exist only for the sake of taking potshots at, ignoring Spinoza's indebtedness to him).
My point about SR practicing what D&G preach was that he has achieved a form of writing that D&G seemed to advocate - focusing on the heaving, oozing, jiggling movement of (for example) the rave scene, rather than its isolated moments. Which is to say that, wrt the ideas he takes from D&G, he seems to understand them just fine, even if he doesn't get the bigger picture. (and I honestly have no idea if he gets it or not) (and who does, really?)
Mr. Sutcliffe - Still would really like to see some examples of SR's failure to properly grasp lit/cult crit...
― Matthew Cohen, Tuesday, 5 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― dave q, Tuesday, 5 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― , Tuesday, 5 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
I am putting off reading certain contemporary works because they assume so much knowledge of earlier philosophers. I don't think it's difficult to come up with a reading list of the names which comes up the most, the thinkers whose ideas had the most widespread impact. There are only so many big ideas to go around. The more minor philosophers may reshuffle them or put a new spin on them, but it's not difficult to get some sense of who the most important authors are (in terms of impact). That doesn't mean there won't be arguments, obviously.
I am very suspicious of a lot of continental philosophy, but I would like to read it eventually. However, I didn't see much point in coming to it without having some Hegel under my belt.
― DeRayMi, Tuesday, 5 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Hegel fills me with total helplessness every time I try to read him, but I swear, one day, one sweet day, I'll make my way through both the Logic and the Phenomenology of Spirit.
― Michael Daddino, Tuesday, 5 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
1. The slack-jawed E-gobblers aren't by and large violent at all. I think you are confusing them with those famed Football Hooligans (who, famously but I don't believe a word of it stopped being violent when they all started taking E).
2. This is mad. You're saying Texan students are all recycling Simon Reynolds? His fame extends wider than I could ever have imagined.
― N., Tuesday, 5 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Imagine Mark SinXoR as a Texas philosophy lecturer, dismissively scrawling over essays in red ink: "Pah! Another boring Hornby re-run!"
― Tim, Wednesday, 6 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
poo i haf just remembered wot i had successfully repressed for three days, that i am meant to be delivering FT a review of that stupid da capo book...
― mark s, Wednesday, 6 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
well, no reason to read the review then, ho ho.
― jess, Wednesday, 6 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Frank Kogan, Monday, 13 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― minna, Thursday, 16 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
blimey this puts a crimp in my DECLINE OF ACADEMIC STANDARDS riff
― mark s, Saturday, 18 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― geeta, Saturday, 18 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Frank Kogan, Monday, 20 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― geeta, Monday, 20 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― jess, Monday, 20 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
Geeta, you must seek to get your hands on a copy of Frank's zine Why Music Sucks. As Ned might say: it is good, oh yes.
(Frank I've decided that I owe you a Mix CD - how does that sound?)
― Tim, Monday, 20 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― mark s, Monday, 20 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
I'll have to second that, and I still have yet to read a word. ;-) Chuck Eddy mentions Frank and WMS prominently at the end of Stairway to Hell, and I now curse myself for never writing away to the address listed there all those years back. I've missed years of good thoughts, musical and otherwise, as a result.
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 20 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
it was about decadence and iggy pop's penis.
― minna, Tuesday, 21 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― mark "the s is for insecure" s, Tuesday, 21 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― minna, Thursday, 23 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
Tim - I've always wanted a mixtape but was too shy to ask. Address is Frank Kogan, PO Box 9761, Denver CO 80209-9761 (the addresses listed in the back of the Eddy books have long since been abandoned; this one won't last forever either, I don't think).
People actually interested in WMS should email me rather than sending $$$ to the address, since prices vary depending on where I'm sending it and which issue I'm sending.
― Frank Kogan, Friday, 24 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
Minna I'm delighted. Thank you.
― mark s, Friday, 24 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
yrs bll
― Bill Routt, Saturday, 25 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
Oh, you could say something about Simon Reynolds's writing, which almost no one on this thread actually did except in the vaguest terms. Like, open a book, read a page, say something about it.
― Frank Kogan, Saturday, 25 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― mark s, Saturday, 25 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
Also, if you want to be taken seriously, its best not to identify yourself as a tool.
― Sterling Clover, Saturday, 25 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
the 'plateau' idea that reynolds uses from time to time (not always in those words) seems to me v. useful and pretty close to whatever d. and g. mean by it. EVEN BETTER, d. and g.'s source, gregory bateson, means something v. useful and interesting by it, well applicable to dance music, moreover rap, a-g stuff, indie rock, all kindsa things.
the 'desiring machine' stuff is not v. well developed so it's hard to tell if reynolds' use of it accords with d. and g.'s (whatever the hell that is exactly). my suspicion is that r's use doesn't show any deep understanding of d and g's, but it's along the right lines.
― Josh, Saturday, 25 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Frank Kogan, Sunday, 26 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Josh, Sunday, 26 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
So let's try the other thing. I just happen to have a copy of History of Shit on my bookshelf, and I'll open it at random ...
"The individuation of waste, which enjoins all 'to hold and retain matter within their homes' comes attached to a moral homily: it serves as the 'raw material' for a fable whose hero serves a calendar in which singing and dancing days are always a year away."
Surely no one here can fail to see that this is a devastating description of the music critic and of how music criticism actually works (instead of the way our late capitalist society pretends that it works). For example, here we are reading this 'matter' when we could be out dancing, like Simon Reynolds always claims to be. The point is that HE is the 'hero' described in the quote and music criticism is the 'fable'.
See. It works.
― bll, Friday, 31 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link