DRAY v KLAY

https://sports.yahoo.com/how-draymond-green-cj-mccollum-navigate-the-double-dipping-player-media-dynamic-200541988.html

McCollum, a journalism major, felt a responsibility to inform Green of his Finals prediction in person rather than the forward being surprised to learn McCollum’s position on national television.

Being a bystander amid the conversation, McCollum and Green allowed Yahoo Sports to publish the details of their conversation.

“I’ve got to tell you this. I picked Boston to win Game 3, I picked you guys to win Game 4. But ultimately, I’ve got the Celtics winning the Finals,” McCollum told Green. “I just want you to hear it from me first before you hear me say it on TV.”

Green, without hesitation, responded, “That’s fine. Those Celtics will still be ringless just like you. Respect.”

while I think the basketball part of this question is pretty settled (in favor of dray), klay definitely wins the wkiw battle

Klay just demolished this beer at the Giants-Dodgers game 😂 pic.twitter.com/20e49t3mOM

— NBC Sports Bay Area & CA (@NBCSAuthentic) July 24, 2022

We are the same fr pic.twitter.com/0L2PbqM8iK

— villalobos (@RamonVillalobos) December 16, 2022

Took me way too many takes to understand what actually happened in this shot

Give Dray the max now! 🤣 pic.twitter.com/rUcosSaMCe

— ²³ (@PlayoffDraymond) January 28, 2023

that’s trippy

did we ever figure this one out?

both going through a rough patch

Pretty clear say is the 2nd best player on the team now (when he’s available)

total value the past 10 years not even close imo from outsider perspective

well you like rudy gobert

oh come on man lol

something to think about

I’m sorry who is putting klay over dray when it is all said and done apart from various grudge holding francophones I shallnt hear it

francophobes****

Dray delivers a lot of solid defense, plenty of ugly nut hunting, flops, technical fouls and childish jawing, very competent passing and rebounding, minimal points scored, and frequent suspensions. What you see is what you get. He's disruptive in both the good and bad sense.

i mean we could just review the thread instead of posting the same arguments again but on any team but the steph klay warriors dray wouldve been a huge offensive liability, a pure defensive specialist, granted the best defender around many years, but still he got very lucky if he had spent his career on normal teams he would be thought of radically different than he is now

and thats not even getting into all the extracurricular stuff like recruiting kd

it’s not just that he was a defensive specialist (and it seems worth pointing out, probably one of the 3 most important defenders of his generation), but he was also such an important connector on offense esp in an era where such skills were less commonplace. that’s not to say he didn’t need great offensive teammates to unlock his full potential but contrast that with klay who was more of a straightforward “piece” (tho obv at his best an elite one) rather than a foundational mold-breaking dude

he was a great connector because he played with a guy who was consistently trapped high meaning dray was consistently operating with an advantage, connecting skills in a normal halfcourt set up where everyone is being guarded when a guy (dray) is just no threat to score from anywhere arent that valuable

i invite you to peruse his numbers from the year steph missed, theyre not great

i think it’s true that klay’s game would more easily adapt to different situations… he has prob one of the most complimentary skillsets/playing styles you could imagine

but i’m of the opinion that the steph & dray offensive combo is more so what makes the warriors sui generis than the steph & klay combo. i think you could very easily take the other side of the argument! but i think the chemistry between steph & dray is what makes the warriors offense — i think steph hits all the same individual accolades as a player if draymond ends up on a different team but i don’t think he hits nearly the same team accolades. and i think you could have taken klay off the warriors and maybe found a player who got you to 90% of his contributions, i think it would have been harder to find a replacement for peak draymond, bcuz of how much of his play with steph is just mindmeld type stuff, and how much his defense powered their offense in those years in terms of getting out on the fast break and avalanching teams. maybe you can find another great small ball 5 defender (tho prob not!) but i just buy into the idea that there is something about him & steph that is just him & steph

so in a sense you’re both making correct points. i think in this poll, my understanding of it, i’m voting (i voted?) DRAY

i think dray absolutely fit beautifully with this warriors team, and that does include klay, but i also think you could build a million different great teams of all different configurations around steph, one reason dray really takes steph to the next level with this team is theyve always been short on ball handling and playmaking and dray provides that

of course one of the reasons they were short on ball handling and play making is klay does not dribble or pass

can i say one of the things that annoys me with the canonization of dray is people are always talking about the grabbing and going and say how many teams have a center who can do that, and they say that about a lot of the stuff he does, but dray has spent the great majority of his career playing the four, and the reason for that is he couldnt hold up as a full time center

not that many true 4s doing that either!

its a lot more than centers, i mean no ones saying whos got a four who can do that because then youd have to list a bunch of teams and the point wouldnt really land, which is why they say center

if we're talking about who's more essential to the dubs dynasty i think the answer is dray based on all the otm stuff jordan said a few posts ago.

the original q of this thread was "who is better at basketball" which sounds more like a simmonsy where do they rank in the pantheon kind of thing tho, and to that i can't help but feel like dray's career ended up being his absolute best case scenario, whereas we'll never really know how klay would have developed as a player if he had had to be the guy. not saying the klay we ended up with wasn't the perfect match for his role, but i can imagine his game developing differently and his racking up more individual type accolades if he hadn't playing next to steph, maybe was instead paired with a conventional all star big man like lamarcus aldridge or something

idk i think one of the things that makes the question interesting is klay also benefited from being on the warriors i mean what does a shooter want but open shots, in conclusion the answer to dray vs kay is steph

can't argue with that

i think klay is prob a better basketball player but i also think klay’s skills are very identifiable — quick release, perfect form, ability to shoot at crazy angles, could put it on the floor in his prime. even on defense, what he did — guard the best perimeter player — was very central to the action occupying the eye.

with dray some of his skills are like that, like when he runs the break as a big, his passing, his chemistry with steph would be apparent to even a novice. but a lot of what he does especially on defense is him having a very sharp basketball mind, not rim protection or locking down the no 1 man or whatever. it’s entirely possible he’s the better basketball player than klay

They're both Brock Purdy and Steph is Shanahan. System players.

Come on, they've had individual and team performances that are all time. Dray's game 7 performance in the 2016 finals says everything about him. He's the ultimate team player and when motivated would have been an elite piece on any team. His superpower is his drive and pettiness.

As well as intelligence. The only way he's a "bust" is if some completely incompetent coaching missed his potential.

By bust I mean "average" or an afterthought of a player. As a second rounder, any value is a win.