Debut albums which became their own phenomenon outside the rest of their catalogue

how much does artist intent matter? Kind of takes Illmatic out of it

i'm sure he intended to make good albums after illmatic

sorry couldn't resist the joke

Crass - Feeding of the 5000

Pearl Jam - Ten

Huge album that made them instant superstars, three massive hits, a right place-right time generation defining band that looked set to continue on U2-level multi-album superstardom…but i’m instead they immediately settled a couple levels below for a fairly lucrative but relatively boring career making solid but unremarkable records that nobody except the die-hard fans remembers, no hits, no adventures.

Bad Brains s/t ("the yellow tape"). Napalmed the entire hardcore punk scene, massively influential, and super raw in a way they never were again (Rock For Light, from the following year, is super polished by comparison - produced by Ric Ocasek!).

Sinead O'Connor - The Lion and the Cobra (an album that to me sounds like the first album of the 90s, over two years too early)

i always thought of r.e.m.’s document as the early first album of the 90s, but i guess that’s for another thread

oooh Hosono House might be one of these. very special album with a sound that's weirdly hard to pin down, it's not one of his Top 5 (IMO) but it has a weirdly devoted following online. it somehow has more ratings on RYM than all his other albums (Pacific notwithstanding)

Crazy Rhythms fits the model as I understand it--fully realized, out of left field, the band gradually became somewhat more recognizable in sound and songwriting approach....

Maybe Blue Lines fits.

The Milk-Eyed Mender
Bergtatt
Samba esquema novo
Incunabula - Amber taken together
Distant Plastic Trees - The Wayward Bus taken together

Still tempted to mention Björk's Debut

Not a debut but Goodbye and Hello is so unique
Not a debut but Astral Weeks
Not a debut but Confusion is Sex seemed to have its own reputation separated from the rest of Sonic Youth discography

Murmur absolutely counts here, it has a hallowed reputation among all their albums that makes it somewhat separate to other REM albums, not matter how excellent or celebrated. That's not an argument anyone seriously tries to make about, say, Bad Moon Rising or Movement. There's a mystique to the album that's impossible to replicate second time round. I think the artwork makes a difference as well - those kudzu vines! Lots of albums that might qualify have incredibly evocative album covers.

This got me thinking about Music Has The Right To Children, which has a similar position in the BoC canon despite Geogaddi being arguably the better record.

All three of the big early 90s Bristol albums qualify. Blue Lines because, while Massive Attack made excellent albums later on, they absolutely nailed the aesthetic first time. It's also the only one with Shara Nelson on it, which helps. Maxinquaye and Dummy are just bottled lightning.

There are loads of rap albums that qualify - it's impossible to make a statement along the lines of Reasonable Doubt, or Illmatic, or Boy In Da Corner, once an artist has already secured a level of success/wealth/fame.

Whereas I never got the sense that Debut held a particularly exalted or unique status in the Bjork canon relative to what followed, ditto The Kick Inside. Horses, on the other hand. I also found myself wondering whether the first Velvet Underground album is the first appearance of this phenomenon.

I feel like the four main VU albums are sort of equally loved?

The Velvet Underground & Nico is a phenomenon above and beyond not just the other VU albums but also virtually everything that any of its members did afterwards.

Yes, that album is first among equals, even if people might prefer listening to one of the others.

We were discussing Meatloaf on another thread, and Bat Out of Hell ticks some of the boxes. Per Moka:

This is weird as fuck, starts as a rock n roll parody song, goes into some stevie wonder interlude then into opera country rock thing and ends up sounding like the B52s. It’s also 8 minutes long? What the hell. Was this a hit?

I have heard some of his later hits (I have never heard Bat Out of Hell II, which I assume was some attempt to replicate the buzz of the original) but I think this debut stands apart from the rest of his discography, and many people who own the album haven't heard/are not much interested in anything else he did?

Pearl Jam having "no hits" after Ten is a headscratcher, but I get the point in that they settled down quickly to a "huge" versus "top 5 biggest bands in the world" scale.... and the booming arena sound of the debut definitely sets it way apart from everything else.

Jagged Little Pill was her third album, believe it or not!

B-52's have the issue that Wild Planet is basically a sequel album to the debut --- similar sound, art, songs mostly all having been written before they got signed etc.

if Jagged Little Pill counts, then Off the Wall!

Crazy Rhythms for sure

i had my doubts about this thread but it has lured MATT DC back to posting after getting on for a year, so uh well done, thread

anyway to actually make a contribution instead of a snarky quip, i humbly present The Beta Band's self-titled 'debut' (ignoring the more-popular album's worth of material they'd already put out), an album so singular, weird and unlike anything else that the band themselves trashed it when it came out. many others prefer their other work, and that's fair, but the self-titled is in a world of its own

going a bit more obscure, The Ruins Of Beverast's debut Unlock The Shrine is a self-professed album of 'pure psychosis', it is absolutely lethal and while TROB went on to even better things, the debut is single-mindedly vicious, evoking untold medieval murder with even the hint of a grin on its face

and then there's Ulver, who perfected folk-BM in their teens with Bergtatt and then went on to do (lots of) other things

George Harrison - All Things Must Pass has to be one of the biggest ones of these, if solo albums count as debuts.

oh!!

andrew wk obviously lmao

ahhh yeah good call, you can only be that spectacularly dumb once

fuck i just remembered ATMP is also a third album!

Andrew WK a solid pick

there was some great stuff on the followups, especially The Wolf, but the party energy part, which drove the phenomenon, felt more forced and those songs were less joyously crafted.

Gris Gris / Dr John

...since it seems a lot of these are actually third albums, does Up On The Sun count?

yeah I like all of AWK's main albums but there's definitely something about IGW, it's the sort of album that would've worked perfectly as a one-off

Clap Your Hands Say Yeah

I feel like the most interesting examples of this are where subsequent albums somewhat dwarf the debut, but where that in turn lends something to the magic of the debut. That's kind of what Piper is.

if Jagged Little Pill counts, then Off the Wall!

― maf you one two (maffew12), Friday, June 17, 2022 7:23 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

no way

jmm, absolutely. This is more interesting for bands with big careers and many albums people like... but where the debut still feels like it sits apart, in the listen and in the legend. Versus the probably more numerous people who take several albums to arrive at that magic spot, the fair number of "phenomenon" debuts where the "rest of their catalog" might as well not exist for most listeners, etc.

Thriller is more a piece with Bad than Off the Wall, no? OTW smashes everything after for what that's worth

But why is it different other than that it was made in 79 instead of 82?

In other words, why is outside the rest of the catalog?

I feel like the most interesting examples of this are where subsequent albums somewhat dwarf the debut, but where that in turn lends something to the magic of the debut. That's kind of what Piper is.

― jmm, Friday, June 17, 2022 10:28 AM (twenty minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

yeah that's why I think Piper is the best example of this out there, I can't believe I didn't mention it in the OP

Brian Eno's Here Come the Warm Jets sorta fits along those lines, it's a great album but what really makes it interesting is that Eno fled pretty far from this sound

it's much more a disco record than anything after

xp

Because it was made in 79!

If Thriller were made in 79 it would have been a disco record too.

xxp What.. what about Tiger Mountain

oh i see.. if there's a criteria about being out of step with the zeitgeist i missed it!

this is a pretty fun one to chew on in any case

Actually, after rereading the initial post, you might be more right than I am.

lol

i am seeing now how you read "own phenomenon"

xxp What.. what about Tiger Mountain

― maf you one two (maffew12), Friday, June 17, 2022 10:56 AM (nineteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

definitely similar but Warm Jets has this real unhinged quality to it, if that was the only Eno album you knew you'd be pretty surprised at how the rest of his career went. whereas Tiger Mountain cements him as a more serious art-rock guy prone to those kind of diversions.

i gotcha but Tiger Mountain really takes the edge off of saying Warm Jets is such an outlier in a body of work like that

fwiw I don't think Alanis or Jacko should fit... but at the same time it feels silly to disqualify "Debut" because of the record Bjork made as a child. I don't think it fits more because "Post" exists.

I almost would have said Warm Jets but it seemed like a bit of a troll even though I know it has its champions who think he never did anything else as good. Some days I'm among them ;-)

No takers for the first Mercury Rev, then? I'm sure it's in a very similar sitation, it kind of has a part II in Boces but it's still pretty singuler in their catalog, they defintiely haven't pinned down what they're going to go on to do and later albums were much bigger.

In The Garden. The one lp by the band I really love backed by band that is rotating members of Can and Blondie doing something i hear rooted in Britfolk rock stuff with a major psychedelic tinge.

Later stuff is ok but this is phenomenal. Especially when the cd version replaced teh earlier tinny sounding version

Horseflies Human Fly
is something special I think they continued with something far less special and more mainstream.

"anything else as good", or as wild and freewheeling anyway. xp to me

There for In The Garden, yes!