Which of these cities is no longer a major league town

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i guess i'm going to vote for tampa bay, because it's the second most preferred place for young republicans, according to axios. fuck that, you lose your team

Bruce Stingbean (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 14 June 2022 20:52 (one month ago) link

still remember Miami assembling a superteam a decade ago, drawing 0 fans, and then immediately dissolving it. so that's my immediate reaction. then again there are players getting paid more per year than Pittsburgh's entire payroll

frogbs, Tuesday, 14 June 2022 20:55 (one month ago) link

Miami and Tampa Bay are really the only choices here -- no real baseball history (though the Marlins have two World Championships) and more importantly (though relatedly) I have never seen any evidence that people who live in those cities care about the baseball team at all, even after two decades of play. Tampa Bay is less of a real city while Miami indisputably is, but I think, even despite Marlin's man, Miami's indifference to their baseball team is in my view more thoroughgoing, so I voted Miami.

Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, 14 June 2022 20:58 (one month ago) link

But I don't actually think baseball should contract; baseball is good, so more baseball is better, at least so long as there are enough players to populate 30 teams worth of legitimate major league level players, and I think there certainly are. (To the extent there are teams NOT populated by a whole roster of legitimate major league level players, hey Baltimore, it's a choice, not a necessity.) So I wouldn't get rid of any of these cities. If you want to start talking about moving one of these teams to San Antonio or San Jose or becoming a municipally owned franchise in Buffalo or whatever, yeah, hey, go for it.

Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, 14 June 2022 21:01 (one month ago) link

Contracting one team wouldn’t make a lot of sense - but if I had to pick: Miami. Easy.
I couldn’t imagine ever contracting a team with the history of the pirates or orioles tho. Move the Rays to Montreal. That is all.

FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 14 June 2022 22:16 (one month ago) link

i think moving the rays to montreal should be unanimously supported

Bruce Stingbean (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 14 June 2022 22:17 (one month ago) link

The Athletics have just kept moving west through their entire existence, Honolulu A's has a nice ring to it

Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, 14 June 2022 22:29 (one month ago) link

Tampa Bay, for sure.

2018: Record: 90-72-0, Finished 3rd in AL East / Attendance: 1,154,973 (15th of 15)
2019: Record: 96-66-0, Finished 2nd in AL East / Attendance: 1,178,735 (15th of 15)
2021: Record: 100-62-0, Finished 1st in AL East / Attendance: 761,072 (14th of 15)
2022: Record: 35-25-0, 3rd place in AL East / Attendance: 467,154 (12th of 15)

Also: they kill the Jays.

clemenza, Tuesday, 14 June 2022 22:35 (one month ago) link

I'm sure they would have been near the bottom in attendance in 2020, too, the COVID year, when they went 40-20, finished first, and went to the WS. They did draw 1.8 million in 2008, their other WS year, but the novelty seems to have long worn off.

clemenza, Tuesday, 14 June 2022 22:38 (one month ago) link

Baltimore's a silly choice. They don't draw now because they're terrible; many cities go up and down in sync with their record (or with a year or two delay). In 2012, 2013, 2014, and 2016, their last four successful years, they were over two million (also in 2017, when they were 75-87).

clemenza, Tuesday, 14 June 2022 22:44 (one month ago) link

“lack of baseball history” seems like a bad argument. you don’t get baseball history unless you keep a team in a city for a good amount of time.

that being said tampa bay probably makes the most sense but i’d be ok with punishing cleveland for not making their team logo/name unracist until this season

na (NA), Tuesday, 14 June 2022 23:47 (one month ago) link

the real answer is that there should be relegation/promotion. (haven't checked the numbers, but it wouldn't surprise me if indy or charlotte outdraw oakland this year, and that is a *choice* the a's made because there are no ramifications

but yeah, one of the florida teams, and probably tampa (although i hate to punish them for *not* building a boondoggle for billionaires the way miami did)

or becoming a municipally owned franchise

this, very specifically, is not allowed. and i'm sure you can guess why

mookieproof, Wednesday, 15 June 2022 00:20 (one month ago) link

communism

Bruce Stingbean (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 15 June 2022 00:49 (one month ago) link

or wait....massively multiplayer municipal sports betting fraud

Bruce Stingbean (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 15 June 2022 00:50 (one month ago) link

yeah the Florida teams are the most contractable. not much history, low enthusiasm even when they're good

ciderpress, Wednesday, 15 June 2022 01:14 (one month ago) link

baltimore and pittsburgh should not be on the chopping block at all until the league can prove that a good team would not signficantly boost turnout there. it has in the past

ciderpress, Wednesday, 15 June 2022 01:24 (one month ago) link

Yeah it seems me that a distinction should be made between teams that are run poorly or have shitty owners vs Cleveland/TB where the ball has been pretty good but nobody gives a shit.

brimstead, Wednesday, 15 June 2022 01:39 (one month ago) link

I think the solution is for the US Supreme Court to make baseball mandatory.

FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 15 June 2022 01:43 (one month ago) link

relegation doesnt work in the US like it does in the UK because teams are too far apart geographically and thus team allegiances are more regional. if the mariners have a bad run and get relegated then mlb loses the whole pacific northwest until they're back in. those people aren't gonna pack up and travel 700 miles or whatever to go to a giants game

ciderpress, Wednesday, 15 June 2022 01:45 (one month ago) link

Cleveland usually draws pretty well when they field a good team--they've bounced between 1.5-2.2M the past 15-20 years with teams that win 90 games or more. And in '96 they drew 3.3M, although that team was stacked with stars and almost scored 1,000 runs.

clemenza, Wednesday, 15 June 2022 01:50 (one month ago) link

relegation doesn't work in the US like it does in the UK because the MLB clubs own the players (and many of the teams) in the lower leagues, and because MLB now controls the whole thing

i mean if the mariners had a bad run and it meant something, they'd just have triple-a tacoma forfeit all their games. as it is, the mariners don't really have much incentive to compete exactly because it's 700 miles to san francisco and their fans can probably only watch like two eastern teams through the blackout

the issue is that major league baseball teams can make shitloads of money without actually trying to compete or trying to maximize attendance. and so they do

mlb itself is extremely aware of how its profit model is built on the nostalgia of old people, and how today's youngsters don't give a shit about 'field of dreams' or whatever. and its answer is instant betting and tik-tok

i actually like baseball and i've watched like two innings this year, because i don't want to commit 3.5 hours to watching a game that essentially means nothing. so i guess we'll ultimately get a 16-team playoff field and play into december because the 162-game regular season is sacrosanct

mookieproof, Wednesday, 15 June 2022 02:51 (one month ago) link

i'm not the greatest of baseball fans but camden yards/baltimore are on that untouchable list.

Western® with Bacon Flavor, Wednesday, 15 June 2022 06:14 (one month ago) link

Tampa Bay -- They've had a lot of success on the field since 2008 but they've never had a proper fan base, or a decent ball park, or tried to spend money.

The 2013-2015 Pirates proved that the city is starving for a good team and will support one, not to mention the 100-plus years of history. Baltimore -- similar situation.

Even the Marlins have had glimmers of fan support.

NoTimeBeforeTime, Wednesday, 15 June 2022 08:16 (one month ago) link

or becoming a municipally owned franchise

this, very specifically, is not allowed. and i'm sure you can guess why

― mookieproof, Tuesday, June 14, 2022 7:20 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

I didn't know this, MLB actually forbids it?

Guayaquil (eephus!), Wednesday, 15 June 2022 12:34 (one month ago) link

what if it is allowed, and all of the united states come together and unite under the flag of one baseball team, america's team

Bruce Stingbean (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 15 June 2022 15:36 (one month ago) link

i feel like america's team should be made up of only Three True Outcome players - joey gallo, matt carpenter, etc. swing for the fences, strike out, or go for a walk. that's america

Bruce Stingbean (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 15 June 2022 15:38 (one month ago) link

xxp my mistake, i can’t find that it is specifically banned (although it *is* in the NFL, with the packers grandfathered in)

nevertheless, MLB would never ever let it happen, and the other clubs have to approve ownership changes

see also: https://mlb.nbcsports.com/2014/12/29/why-dont-cities-just-buy-sports-teams-instead-of-paying-to-build-them-stadiums

mookieproof, Wednesday, 15 June 2022 22:23 (one month ago) link

Cincy deserves to be here. Columbus is a bigger town with more money and stuff going on anymore even for Ohio. The youth of the 'tristate' area love football/soccer though. That is the sport the seems to be really capturing the fancy these days.

I got to think Oakland and to a lesser extent Tampa are a bit tempered by the fact they are just flat out stuck in terrible stadiums/locations. I'm not a local, but the thing I have always thought to be the case the Giant's veto rights have screwed them from moving to a better location and if they were in the right location, they might do way, way better as the Oakland stadium is kind of hard to reach for rest of the bay area. Any local perspective as I know we got some SF Bay area baseball fans might chime in, but I always was kind of under the idea that if they could move more towards San Jose into a favorable interstate area - they could do way better. Tampa is kind of the same as I guess people from Tampa, it's in a hard place to get - whether or not they would really draw all that much better - I don't know but that is my perception on the Rays for a long time.

I'd figure a park in the right spot of Nashville might do really well as that town is growing into a huge town. Nashville is booming like Atlanta in the 70s now and I got to figure it will keep on growing out.

All this said, I would not be a buyer on baseball in general if I was a loaded choad. I think the game sucks in many, many ways right now and they are far too stupid to fix anything.

The Artist formerly known as Earlnash, Thursday, 16 June 2022 00:50 (one month ago) link

the marlins should be contracted... i say this as a marlins "fan." the city is not hostile or ambivalent towards baseball, they have major WBC games there every time and the stadium is always packed and electric. but the relationship between the city and that specific franchise is irreparably damaged imo, and further a precedent has been established for far too long that it's okay to not spend money or retain good players in that city and the world will keep turning on its axis so who really cares. i think they had a chance post-loria to fix it if they had selected the right owner, and though the new ownership & front office has done a good job replenishing the farm system, the team isn't any closer to contention than they have been and -- if jeter is to be believed -- has little intention of spending the kind of money you typically need to spend in order to be competitive. maybe they can build around jazz chisholm and their young pitching and find a core nucleus of players that gives them a 3 year window of playoff contention and that turns the tides a bit in terms of how ppl feel about the team in the city but it feels like a long shot. i do think that miami would be a great option for an NBA or NFL style move the franchise to another city and then start over again fresh w/ a new team & new ownership. bcuz on paper baseball should work in miami. but the well is so poisoned that it's a superfund site

J0rdan S., Thursday, 16 June 2022 18:57 (one month ago) link

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

System, Sunday, 19 June 2022 00:01 (one month ago) link

zombie deadspin is so bad

, Sunday, 19 June 2022 03:55 (one month ago) link

it really is

Bruce Stingbean (Karl Malone), Sunday, 19 June 2022 04:02 (one month ago) link

the zombie deadspin articles i've read have been not only horribly written in their own right, they all have this awkward breathless desperation in their attempts to reflect gawker snark. i don't know if i've ever seen a publication that makes me cringe the way this does

anyway re the thread topic, using attendance against TB is unfair, as earlnash alluded to... their tv ratings are perfectly fine, if they just had a stadium that was actually in tampa they would draw crowds. it doesn't even have to be a good stadium. i've actually heard a lot of praise for the trop from rays fans. just that getting there and back is a nightmare.

, Sunday, 19 June 2022 04:07 (one month ago) link

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

System, Monday, 20 June 2022 00:01 (one month ago) link

Basically, Florida, no

Bruce Stingbean (Karl Malone), Monday, 20 June 2022 02:13 (one month ago) link

I got to wonder if it is ownership in Pittsburgh. I got to think with all those colleges and that park, someone 'should' be able to market that place and just make a place to go. Are there no bars/restaurants around the park?

I think the teams should make their decks and tickets cheap and start packing the place and make money on concessions. Make it a working man thing to do like a movie. Its too expensive when you add it all up. Baseball is just shit with selling their product.

The Artist formerly known as Earlnash, Wednesday, 22 June 2022 01:21 (one month ago) link

They need to get excitement going, heck to make the TV product a better deal. They get 15 grand in there a night, that creates buzz in town and makes a better TV show.

The Artist formerly known as Earlnash, Wednesday, 22 June 2022 01:22 (one month ago) link

I think the teams should make their decks and tickets cheap and start packing the place and make money on concessions.

Unfortunately I think that ship has sailed, and it's not just baseball's problem, it covers tickets for all sports, concerts, and major events in general.

NoTimeBeforeTime, Wednesday, 22 June 2022 06:23 (one month ago) link

Stubhub will sell you lots of Marlins tickets for $8 a pop

Guayaquil (eephus!), Wednesday, 22 June 2022 15:52 (one month ago) link

three weeks pass...

ffs matt carpenter is now batting .356/.466/.904 with 12 homers and 27 RBI in 30 games

mookieproof, Sunday, 17 July 2022 00:45 (three weeks ago) link

oops wrong thread

mookieproof, Sunday, 17 July 2022 00:52 (three weeks ago) link


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