Beat LA!
― Bee OK, Saturday, 11 June 2022 00:31 (one year ago) link
Sweep Sweep!
― Bee OK, Sunday, 12 June 2022 23:56 (one year ago) link
Cain's perfect game was 11 years or so back today
Pretty cool to see Clayton Kershaw greet Matt Cain on the field with a smile and a handshake. Kershaw always had a great affinity for Bumgarner, Cain and Lincecum over the years. Game respects game.— Andrew Baggarly (@extrabaggs) June 12, 2022
― Bee OK, Monday, 13 June 2022 00:52 (one year ago) link
this is the 10th anniversary of Cain's perfect game.
― Bee OK, Monday, 13 June 2022 01:03 (one year ago) link
This could be the last week for Carlos in San Francisco and I have never seen something like this before.
What kind of magic is this?? đ pic.twitter.com/eUiPyxLjuP— SF Giants on NBCS (@NBCSGiants) July 27, 2022
― Bee OK, Wednesday, 27 July 2022 21:22 (one year ago) link
Surprised to come in here and not see the highlight of him kicking a bat and hitting Estrada in the knee
― octobeard, Thursday, 28 July 2022 01:33 (one year ago) link
This team is in freefall. Hate to see it.
The worst thing that could have happened is another fluky contending season that prevented them from trading Joc and Rodon for young guys.
― reggae mike love (polyphonic), Thursday, 28 July 2022 02:25 (one year ago) link
Have no idea what's going on in that video
― â, Thursday, 28 July 2022 02:47 (one year ago) link
Ball was hit up the middle, kicked off his foot, bounced up, natural movements led to ball landing in glove.
https://www.mlb.com/news/carlos-rodon-makes-kick-save-for-the-out
― Bee OK, Thursday, 28 July 2022 04:05 (one year ago) link
https://www.sfgate.com/giants/article/carlos-correa-rafael-devers-giants-17699458.php
― Bee OK, Saturday, 7 January 2023 00:52 (one year ago) link
I'm ok with how this off-season turned out. They went after Judge and came out short. Personally I didn't want Judge anyways I wanted Correa. When Correa leg came back with issues, backing out was the right move. They should have let Crawford stay at short and had Correa at third for one season but I think Brandon understood the situation.
― Bee OK, Saturday, 7 January 2023 00:58 (one year ago) link
Thatâs why the Giants have to hope they were really, really, really right about Correa and his health. If his ankle falls off in three years while making a 6-3 putout, they look like geniuses. If heâs an impact player for the next six to seven years, and then a useful player for the rest of his career, they look foolish. Thereâs not a lot of in-between.
This seems a little off to me. To be "really, really, really right about Correa," does the writer mean they should be rooting for him to get hurt? To me, they already look "right" in that the Mets are dealing with the same issue. The Giants, understandably, didn't want to spend $350M on a player who couldn't pass a physical to their satisfaction. The Mets are taking that chance. May work out, may not, but if it does, I don't think that reflects badly on the Giants.
― clemenza, Saturday, 7 January 2023 00:59 (one year ago) link
I agree with that.
― Bee OK, Saturday, 7 January 2023 01:01 (one year ago) link
The Mets are the Yankees and Dodgers: they can spend whatever they want, and if it doesn't work out, they'll just spend some more. Not everybody can do that.
― clemenza, Saturday, 7 January 2023 01:02 (one year ago) link
― bit high, bitch (gyac), Saturday, 7 January 2023 01:18 (one year ago) link
― bit high, bitch (gyac), Saturday, 7 January 2023 01:21 (one year ago) link
Ideally, sure, but can the Giants afford Correa and Ohtani? That'd be $750M right there. There are other models to build a winning team.
― clemenza, Saturday, 7 January 2023 01:59 (one year ago) link
left the guy getting ready for a presser twenty minutes before they realised âhmmm somethingâs not right with the medicalâ- front office didnât bother to say anything
Not sure if this is true according to Alex Pavlovic podcast (Giants NBC Sports Beat Writer) the Giants front office let Boris know on Monday, a day before the press conference, that there were red flags on their report and they were looking into getting more opinions. Press conference was canceled three hours before, not minutes.
― Bee OK, Saturday, 7 January 2023 02:22 (one year ago) link
Not saying it wasn't a clusterfuck because it was. What they did with Crawford was the worst and to compound that other players on the team too. But in hindsight it wasn't as bad as it sure seemed at first. They were right to withdraw the contract.
― Bee OK, Saturday, 7 January 2023 03:03 (one year ago) link
Ideally, sure, but can the Giants afford Correa _and_ Ohtani? That'd be $750M right there. There are other models to build a winning team.
― bit high, bitch (gyac), Saturday, 7 January 2023 10:17 (one year ago) link
xps also I didnât realise that about the presser, thank you for the clarification (sounds like Boras may have put that part out to justify his behaviour?)Front office still said nothing though
― bit high, bitch (gyac), Saturday, 7 January 2023 10:22 (one year ago) link
(xpost) This is also the franchise that won three WS in six years without making the flashy signings you're suggesting. And evidently Correa was happy to sign with the Giants based on who they have now--they turned him away, not the other way around.
― clemenza, Saturday, 7 January 2023 14:33 (one year ago) link
That was then, when they had produced good players from the farm system?! They donât have anyone coming through like that now.
― bit high, bitch (gyac), Saturday, 7 January 2023 14:59 (one year ago) link
I get what your saying, and the Giants got lucky with Bumgarner and Posey developing the way they did; I'm sure they weren't necessarily counting on the greatest WS pitcher ever and a generational HOF'er when they drafted them. But a couple of smart draft picks and then building on that doesn't necessarily take a lot of time; Bumgarner was drafted in 2007, Posey in 2008, and they won their first title in 2010. That's sort of what the Jays are trying to do with Guerrero and Bichette: start there and work out. I don't know anything about the Giants' finances, but I just can't see them outspending the Dodgers and now, apparently, the Padres. I was touting Correa for MVP before all this craziness started, but I honestly think in the long run the Giants will not regret him going elsewhere.
― clemenza, Saturday, 7 January 2023 15:53 (one year ago) link
Posey and Lincecum (who you completely omitted to mention as the first of those three draft picks for some reason), were both Golden Spikes winners. All three were consecutive first round draft picks. Obviously teams do expect those picks to pan out, but in reality tons of first round picks donât. These three did, and how. However, the Giants have never drafted a hitter in those years comparable to any of the pitchers (Cain, Lincecum, Bumgarner) or Posey. They had to bring Bonds in. Obviously they have position players that can hit but theyâre not known as a low-hitting team in the past two decades for no reason. Thatâs what theyâre trading for. Someone who can reliably hit and give them a bit of star power.
― bit high, bitch (gyac), Saturday, 7 January 2023 16:55 (one year ago) link
Like, do you not remember them bringing in Beltran in 2011? Those WS teams were always looking for run support. You donât need a guy to do five innings on short rest in game 7 if youâve got anyone who can reliably deliver.
― bit high, bitch (gyac), Saturday, 7 January 2023 16:58 (one year ago) link
who you completely omitted to mention as the first of those three draft picks for some reason[
A very mysterious reason: I forgot. (Besides which, Lincecum was the second-best starter on the 2010 team, and not all that important to the 2012/14 teams--he wasn't central in the way that Bumgarner/Posey were.)
I swear to god, I don't know what point you're trying to make. That the Giants should bring in great players? Well, yeah, they should--but not doing what the Rangers do, which is spending untold amounts of money when they're not even a .500 team. And they did land a great player in Correa, until they found out that they was a risky investment. So they passed, and now he's either someone else's problem or someone else's successful gamble. They won 107 games two years ago, and they were a .500 team last year who drew 2.5 million fans. And now they should...panic and start emptying the vault to grab a wild-card spot?
― clemenza, Saturday, 7 January 2023 17:05 (one year ago) link
I mean, I really do appreciate how much you've absorbed in your year of watching baseball and your spirited insistence on explaining the subtleties of the game to me. It's taken me 50 years to get to where you've gotten.
― clemenza, Saturday, 7 January 2023 17:07 (one year ago) link
Oh I see, the 2010 series doesnât count for some reason. Weird.
― bit high, bitch (gyac), Saturday, 7 January 2023 17:10 (one year ago) link
Like, do you not remember them bringing in Beltran in 2011?
No, I don't, but thanks for reminding me. They traded for Beltran, he was great, and they didn't make the playoffs that year. In 2012, Beltran was gone. Who did they trade for Beltran? Zach Wheeler, currently one of this best pitchers in baseball.
This is an argument you're making in favour of hitting the panic button?
― clemenza, Saturday, 7 January 2023 17:13 (one year ago) link
I swear to god, I don't know what point you're trying to make
― bit high, bitch (gyac), Saturday, 7 January 2023 17:14 (one year ago) link
_Like, do you not remember them bringing in Beltran in 2011?_No, I don't, but thanks for reminding me. They traded for Beltran, he was great, and they didn't make the playoffs that year. In 2012, Beltran was gone. Who did they trade for Beltran? Zach Wheeler, currently one of this best pitchers in baseball.This is an argument you're making in _favour_ of hitting the panic button?
― bit high, bitch (gyac), Saturday, 7 January 2023 17:16 (one year ago) link
Oh I see, the 2010 series doesnât count for some reason.
And I said this exactly where? What I said was that Lincecum was a somewhat key player in 2010, and not key at all in 2012/2014, which was a response to you equating Lincecum with Bumgarner/Posey as central to the three WS teams. He wasn't.
Iâm arguing that the team needed a big signing of that type--this is exactly when teams end up overpaying somebody, when for whatever reason they decide they need this one player. Nobody needs any one player; there are always alternatives.
Suddenly I'm rooting for the Giants to have a great season with what they have.
I'm sorry you can't help me. Because I really do need your help in making sense of all this.
― clemenza, Saturday, 7 January 2023 17:20 (one year ago) link
Thereâs no equating and honestly this is bizarre and annoying. I am referring to the three singularly great drafts they made in consecutive years and which Iâm not sure any team has replicated since. Itâs lightning in a bottle, and if it was so easy to do, teams wouldnât bother with the Scott Borases, but teams always need to bring in/trade for what they donât have. The notion that Lincecum didnât matter in 2010 is weird, like omitting Zito coming through with a winning season in 2012, Cainâs amazing 2012, Vogelsong himself in 2012 - in fact 2012 was a real whole team effort and I donât think Iâve ever heard anyone say that Posey and Bumgarner were âcentralâ to the 2012 title. Posey, undeniable case, but Bumgarner had the exact same regular season ERA as Vogelsong, and he got lit up in two postseason games to a degree none of the rotation ever have in that scenario. Again, you want to make a case for a pitcher being central to 2012 itâs going to be Cain and Zito. And if you want to talk postseason 2012 youâve got to include Lincecum and Scutaro, probably Pence too.
― bit high, bitch (gyac), Saturday, 7 January 2023 17:34 (one year ago) link
I made a general statement covering all three titles--"equating Lincecum with Bumgarner/Posey as central to the three WS teams"--which you've chopped up into parts. As convenient shorthand, bWAR for those three seasons: Lincecum - 0.5 (two years with negative value), Bumgarner - 8.1, Posey - 16.6. Two of those players are central, one isn't.
this is bizarre and annoying.
Let's end this on some common ground.
― clemenza, Saturday, 7 January 2023 17:46 (one year ago) link
Yes, you generalised because you didnât know what you were talking about. âChopping into partsâ = referring to the individual seasons by what actually happened.
― bit high, bitch (gyac), Saturday, 7 January 2023 17:50 (one year ago) link
you didnât know what you were talking about
I don't usually say stuff like this, but Jesus fuck it amazes me what a self-appointed expert you are based on a few months of watching YouTube clips (taken from the thread where we're all supposed to thrill to your magical journey of self-discovery): "This year I did something I didn't expect; I got into baseball."
― clemenza, Saturday, 7 January 2023 17:55 (one year ago) link
Itâs a real mystery why interest in the sport is dying.
― bit high, bitch (gyac), Saturday, 7 January 2023 17:56 (one year ago) link
And as for âa few months of YouTube clipsâ - watching all three postseasons in full, watching large swathes of regular seasons in full, reading about the teams and games in books and coverage from the beat writers who were there at the time and knew the teams best, reading blogs breaking down stuff into absolutely minuscule details to understand more. Sorry for not being born in America and this game being quite literally foreign to me.What Iâm not doing:- getting misty eyed over Great Men in History- writing to Bill James- reducing people to numbers and refusing to see the game for what it is
― bit high, bitch (gyac), Saturday, 7 January 2023 17:59 (one year ago) link
I apologize for knocking your thread--heat of the moment, and I didn't appreciate "you didn't know what you were talking about." It just seems like you pounce on half the stuff I post here.
"Getting misty-eyed over Great Men in History"--don't know what that means...That I like Willie Mays? Someone else on here said I was jaded. Do jaded people get misty-eyed? You guys can work that out.
No apologies for writing to, reading, or continuing to view many things about baseball within the context of the profound influence James had on me 40 years ago. I know he's not the same writer now that he was then, but influences like that don't just disappear.
Statistics are a fundamental part of the game. "Refusing to see the game for what it is" was pretty much the foundation of sabermetrics.
― clemenza, Saturday, 7 January 2023 18:45 (one year ago) link
The fact that you're not American is of no importance to me. Neither am I--and in fact used to get grief for posting on the American politics thread for that very reason.
― clemenza, Saturday, 7 January 2023 18:46 (one year ago) link
FWIW, Lincecum played a big role out of the bullpen in the 2012 postseason. And they wouldn't have won without Zito either, even though he was just OK in the regular season. Everyone agrees that the Zito contract was a disaster, but OTOH they don't win that year without him, so is it a wash? He was overpaid, but it's not like his contract prevented the front office from making the other moves they needed to win.
And that's the point of the Correa non-deal too, isn't it? Big free agents are almost always overpaid based on what they can deliver. But if teams have the money to spend (and the Giants obviously do) then a well timed signing can alter the history of the franchise.
― NoTimeBeforeTime, Saturday, 7 January 2023 21:38 (one year ago) link
Well, they did sign him, and then--for reasons I agree with--they walked away. Whether that means they now need to sign (if I understand gyac's argument correctly) two high-priced free agents to replace him--the first one to attract the next one--I think they'd be better to invest that money elsewhere for now.
It was you who last week compared the Jays right now with the Giants of the three WS--tinker around, try to get in the playoffs, and take it from there: "put together a solid 85-90 win team, retool in July before the deadline, and hope for a playoff run." I really don't see that as a bad strategy in this day and age.
― clemenza, Saturday, 7 January 2023 22:09 (one year ago) link
Again, I don't know the Giants' financial strength. My assumption is they exist somewhere in the upper half of the middle: that they can afford a huge contract like the one offered Correa, but that--unlike the Yankees or Dodgers (or Mets or Padres?)--it needs to work out or they're boxed in for a time. If I'm wrong, and they belong with those teams who can just run right over mistakes with more spending, then sure, they should have gambled on Correa.
― clemenza, Saturday, 7 January 2023 22:13 (one year ago) link
to add more fuel to the fire, the Beltran move was pretty dumb, they were seriously not contending that year esp after the posey injury. I think keppinger was a better pickup that year
― not too strange just bad audio (brimstead), Saturday, 7 January 2023 22:17 (one year ago) link
The debt on the stadium is paid off and they are now going to be printing money from the project next door. They can be in the Top 5 or so if they choose to be. Will they is the question but they need the farm to produce something, anything. The owner who's politics I hate is one of the richest in MLB.
― Bee OK, Saturday, 7 January 2023 22:44 (one year ago) link
That Beltran move was the stupidest thing ever. Brian Sabean also gave up Reynolds for McCutchen and was a total waste too. This is part of the reasons for the Zaidi move. Good luck Yankees.
― Bee OK, Saturday, 7 January 2023 22:48 (one year ago) link
What I said re Beltran deal & I also called it a bad outcome! Argue the point being made!
The point is that the need for a good hitter hasnât ever gone away.
― bit high, bitch (gyac), Saturday, 7 January 2023 22:53 (one year ago) link
If they're that financially sound, maybe they should have taken a chance on Correa, I don't know. I don't think he was going to singlehandedly keep them close to the Dodgers or Padres, but--the gyac argument, I think--bringing him on board would have been a good way to attract a second big-money FA, and then they've closed that gap significantly.
Happy to wait and see how this turns out.
― clemenza, Saturday, 7 January 2023 22:56 (one year ago) link