Kate Bush

*distant from today’s hip hop

Also house / techno made a major shift in the mid 90’s compared to the pioneering sounds of the late 80’s (Mr. Fingers, Virgo, KLF, MARRS, 808 state, model 500…)

It’s the technology, isn’t it? That’s flippant but once the beats hit harder I have to wonder…

I don't think it's flippant. Advances in sound recording and engineering between 1942 and 1982 were surely more substantial than between 1982 and 2022. So when songs from the 30s or 40s were revived, it was usually via new recordings.

Are we on the "slow cancellation of the future" again?

I do think the backbeat and more modal harmonic language that came in with rock make some difference too.

Hip-hop has absolutely been seismic — it's changed everything. Listen to jazz with a drummer under 40 vs a drummer over 40. I hate to get all Stanley Crouch, but swing is completely different now; young drummers think in loops. So even when they swing, there's a locked-in-ness.

I do think the backbeat and more modal harmonic language that came in with rock make some difference too.

― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Monday, June 6, 2022 10:15 AM (thirty-one minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I'm out of my depth on stuff like this - I've heard of modal harmony in jazz, but never heard it associated with rock. Can you elaborate?

I assume sund4r means simpler, blues-derived melodies and chord progressions taking the place of the more elaborate harmonies of pre-rock popular music in the 50s. Then in the 60s, you had rock that was inspired by modal jazz and non-Western music that was built around drones rather than chord changes.

Sure, I was using it a bit loosely but in this context I mean music that is mostly based on diatonic scales/modes and has a tonal centre but doesn't follow classical/functional rules of harmonic progression (which most Tin Pan Alley/Jazz Age-era pop music does), where predominant progresses to dominant to tonic with an authentic cadence etc. Most rock is still built around chord progressions, or at the least patterns, and is different from pre-Baroque modal music that way, but the progressions don't always make sense from a functional harmony pov, are commonly quite simple, and the modal direction of the melodic line often gives the best clue as to the tonality. Both blues and folk influences make a difference here. There are a bunch of examples listed on pp. 4-5 here: https://www.academia.edu/1826046/Modal_Function_in_Rock_and_Heavy_Metal_Music . You could also look at "Sweet Home Alabama", say, as an example - the melody makes clear that there is a centre on D but it uses the Mixolydian mode and the repeated chord progression D-C-G (with a D pedal) is non-functional.

xp yep

Or tying it back to the topic, "Running Up That Hill" has a melody based entirely on the Aeolian mode (C natural minor), with non-functional progressions built from that mode like i-v-VI-VII and VI-VII-i, where e.g. "Autumn Leaves" from 1945 also draws on the harmonic and melodic minor scales and the chord progressions follow the logic of classical functional harmony (mostly built around ii-V-i [predominant-dominant-tonic] progressions).

All very broad; ofc there are still functional-harmonic songs now and there were blues-based or modal tunes bitd.

Using this site, you can see comparable Aeolian progressions to Bush's in more recent songs like "Swan Song" by Dua Lipa and "Symphony" by Clean Bandit or "I Want You to Know" by Zedd feat. Selena Gomez. https://www.hooktheory.com

it was only 22 years, but “Twist and Shout” was a top ten for the Beatles in 64 and 86, latter due to its appearance in Ferris Bueller.

Advances in sound recording and engineering between 1942 and 1982 were surely more substantial than between 1982 and 2022.

No question. Also, people bought CDs in 1982 and they’re still around in 2022 (CDs, I mean. But I suspect some people from 1982 are also still around). There was no format that existed in 1942 that you could still buy new in 1982 (unless sheet music counts).

And...here we are.

https://www.billboard.com/music/chart-beat/harry-styles-kate-bush-hot-100-top-10-1235082217/

we finally cancelled netflix, got tired of transphobic bs, which meant not watching the new season of stranger things, and finally started watching Pose - and what a perfect symmetric irony the universe provided with RUTH coming up in the very first episode

Hope it dethrones that Harry Styles song. It’s super bland.

Not gonna happen, but I'm glad my students hug both.

I’ve added it to a playlist that’s only that song 200 times on loop while I’m sleeping to help crunch the numbers.

Wait, so it's gone top 10? Does that mean it's being played on the radio?

sorry

hank hill sings running up that hill (a deal with god) pic.twitter.com/EkEGnnZfJ5

— joe joegan (@jakebrodes) June 7, 2022

Well the guitar approach is pretty

I wonder how many people hearing this song for the first time are checking out the album, or any of her albums? I get the impression (largely anecdotal) that young(er than me) folks are just not into albums. That is, they might be fans of "Don't Stop Believin'" and say they love Journey, but don't listen to any other songs by Journey. They love "Bohemian Rhapsody" and profess their love of Queen, but they don't listen to any other songs by them. They might love "Running Up That Hill," but they won't check out "Hounds of Love" or anything else by Kate Bush. It's very single minded (pun intended?). Like, this song was in a commercial, or Tik Tok, or viral video, or movie, or TV show, but there's no real concept of or interest in its place in a larger artistic/creative context. It's just a one-off.

I remember some years back, a couple, I suggested to one of my kids that they might like the first Weezer record. She eventually relented and put it on ... but she didn't start with the first song. I told her, you know, sometimes albums are sequenced as such, and the artists pick the first song for a reason, why wouldn't you just start from the beginning? And she just kind of shrugged. There are a handful of acts my kids love where they listen to everything that act does, but most music they listen to is on a song by song basis. I guess that's how it used to be. Maybe more artists should just go back to releasing stand-alone singles.

About 10 years ago or more, a much younger cousin of mine took a bunch of the CDs I brought for her, ripped them into itunes and then DELETED the album names...

that Hank Hill tweet omg lol thank you

Josh, the Queen fans b/w 15-25 I know have Spotify lists of songs. The cousin who loves Queen and Harry Styles does know Styles albums because he's contemporary.

Josh in Chicago, not trying to call you a grandpa, but this has quite literally been the way most young people have consumed music for my entire life. When I realized at age 14 that I was often the only one who knew the catalog depths of (insert band name here), I was sort of shocked, but it made sense to me— I just figured I had a different relationship to listening than many of my peers.

I mean I also am an enormous nerd with a bit of a hoarding tendency so that helps too.

Grandpa-away, clearly there are lots of things about our collective ILX listening habits that set us apart from most. Age is just one.

I think one evolution is singles, or lack of singles. Growing up, mostly in the '80s, of course there were still singles, and the radio seemed very single-driven as well. Then eventually comes peak CD, and albums were where it was at, because often there functionally *were* no singles. Then comes a la carte streaming, but that's less about singles, per se, then about single songs, which is different, imo. Not the song picked by the label or artist to push or promote, just a platter of single songs that listeners choose to elevate based on ... stuff.

Yep, there were lots of people who just knew the songs they played on the radio or MuchMusic/MTV or movie soundtracks, taped songs from the radio, bought compilations of hits, etc. My parents were baffled as to why I would ever want to blow money on albums of rock music when you can just hear it on the radio.xp

About 10 years ago or more, a much younger cousin of mine took a bunch of the CDs I brought for her, ripped them into itunes and then DELETED the album names...

― Evan, Tuesday, June 7, 2022 9:23 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

In my experience, I've found people like that to be control freaks. Like the idea of being a fan of a band or singer and/or listening to a full album as being subservient to the artist.

To pivot, I know someone who loves music but will delete her entire Apple Music library to start anew. Thankfully they told me via text because my face would've gave them the "Really bitch?"

I used to wipe my iPod every few months to start anew, but never my whole library.

That's understandable. But I guess they felt overwhelmed by seeing that much music on their app. Like leaving the songs/albums there isn't going to hurt you, but whatever. They thought I was weird to just save an album on the app in case I wanted to listen later.

Huh. I just keep adding and adding. Not doing too much iTunes listening these days, but checking now it's at ... 108K songs, or 311 days of music?

I have 21 songs on my phone. I hate keeping shit on it.

Huh. I just keep adding and adding. Not doing too much iTunes listening these days, but checking now it's at ... 108K songs, or 311 days of music?

― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, June 7, 2022 1:08 PM (nine minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

amber is the color of your energy

It was research for my blog 311 Days of 311.

Well damn Josh, you got me beat. I'm just shy of 100k myself an have been kind of embarrassed by that, so it's nice to know there are people worse than me :)

Since the pandemic I've been working from home mostly and therefore getting to actually listen to my records, and honestly I prefer that. having such a large library means searching high and low for new stuff to get into and I spent way too much time trying to convince myself to like things rather than actually listening to what I did like. I'd never delete anything though, why would you do that??

actually wait, I did delete R. Kelly, cuz fuck him

I'd never delete anything though, why would you do that??

― frogbs, Tuesday, June 7, 2022 2:21 PM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I don't want to listen to it anymore. If I'm not listening to new albums, I upload or download older tracks I'm in the mood to play; when the mood passes I hit delete.

I'm a hoarder by nature so having a lot of saved albums on Apple Music isn't overwhelming to me nor feel like a lack of control. I will go through my library to delete some stuff in a "What was I thinking saving that?" feeling.

I used to act all control freak about streaming. No rhyme and reason. But now I see DSPs like the old kiosks at music stores. It got to the point of having emotional attachment/anxiety over a tech resource was silly.

I don't want to listen to it anymore. If I'm not listening to new albums, I upload or download older tracks I'm in the mood to play; when the mood passes I hit delete.

― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, June 7, 2022 1:24 PM (twelve minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

well yeah I delete things off my phone all the time (mostly for space reasons), but I'm talking about removing it from your library altogether - like, deleting the files. or do people not have MP3 collections anymore?? :o

oh no no -- from my phone. I don't throw CDs in the trash.

I'd say Rumours is an exception as far as "no one discovers the album anymore." And I think the world-making of Hounds of Love could make that one catch on as well. (Somewhere I saw that "Cloudbusting" is charting somewhere.)

During the Napster era, I remember one of main complaints found in many news stories about Napster were that "people were forced to buy a whole album just to listen to one song", so I think this thing where people only listen to single songs instead of albums has always been the case for a lot of people.

yep

maybe this will also result in a proper revival of "experiment iv." if forced to pick a single favorite tune of hers, it's my frontrunner.

(lol never gonna happen)

My 17 year old son listens to a lot of music, but I'm pretty sure he has never listened to an album. It's all just individual songs off Spotify.

I love albums. Even uneven albums. Especially uneven albums?

I'm with you. But it doesn't seem to be how it works these days!