In Zaidi we trust - The Giants

That mustache vs beard thing has really blown up, I have seen four different shows where they have talked about it

Kap is also a huge music fan, likes music more than baseball

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/33904139/mind-san-francisco-giants-nonconformist-manager

I love baseball, but I probably "love music more.”

Really? More than baseball?

“Baseball is like sort of my blood,” the 2021 Manager of the Year said. “It’s what I know best. It’s what is the most influential thing in my life. But that pure love is probably music. And that’s from my mom and my dad.”

Always unprompted, Kapler will open press conferences by giving music takes or updates on what he’s been listening to. In spring training, he recommended Vince Staples and Billie Eilish’s “fiery collab.” When Farhan Zaidi walked into the dugout for his season-opening press conference, Kapler played a Mac Miller song from his iPhone for walk-up music.

Before games, players walk into the clubhouse to hear music spilling out of Kapler’s office — R&B, jazz, and most often hip-hop. During them, he notices everyone’s walk-up songs. Background music plays in his head subconsciously like a movie score. He shares artists with his players and uses music as a device to connect with his sons.

https://www.sfgate.com/giants/article/Gabe-Kapler-says-he-regrets-not-kneeling-17204164.php

San Francisco Giants manager Gabe Kapler told reporters on Friday that he won't come out of the dugout for the national anthem before games until he "feel(s) better" about the "direction of our country."

This decision comes in the wake of a self-published introspective blog on his website in which he expressed shame that he did not kneel for the national anthem in the wake of Tuesday’s mass shooting at an elementary school in Uvalde, Texas.

In the post, he called out some of the circumstances that led to the shooting, including the shooter’s ability to purchase assault rifles and ammunition for his crime, the inaction of police officers as parents pleaded with them to do something, and the callous response from some politicians.

But Kapler then looked at himself on Wednesday during the national anthem and called himself a “coward” for not kneeling during the anthem because his dad taught him when he was younger to not stand for the anthem if he believed the anthem wasn’t “representing us well right now.”

“I wish I hadn’t let my discomfort compromise my integrity,” Kapler wrote. “I wish that I could have demonstrated what I learned from my dad, that when you’re dissatisfied with your country, you let it be known through protest. The home of the brave should encourage this.”

The Giants held a moment of silence prior to Wednesday’s game against the New York Mets at Oracle Park for the victims of the shooting. The Golden State Warriors were another Bay Area organization that held a moment of silence for the victims, but they also explicitly advocated for “sensible gun laws.”

I hope Bart is not a bust but he does have time to turn things around. Right now he can't hit major league pitching and strikes out, it seems, almost every at bat.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/06/giants-option-joey-bart-trade-phillies-austin-wynns.html

Missing Posey big time and this years club is not that good, they are very average. Last year was magic and should be fine if Zaidi can get some free agents to come to San Francisco in the next few years.

Beat LA!

Sweep Sweep!

Cain's perfect game was 11 years or so back today

Pretty cool to see Clayton Kershaw greet Matt Cain on the field with a smile and a handshake. Kershaw always had a great affinity for Bumgarner, Cain and Lincecum over the years. Game respects game.

— Andrew Baggarly (@extrabaggs) June 12, 2022

this is the 10th anniversary of Cain's perfect game.

This could be the last week for Carlos in San Francisco and I have never seen something like this before.

What kind of magic is this?? 😂 pic.twitter.com/eUiPyxLjuP

— SF Giants on NBCS (@NBCSGiants) July 27, 2022

Surprised to come in here and not see the highlight of him kicking a bat and hitting Estrada in the knee

This team is in freefall. Hate to see it.

The worst thing that could have happened is another fluky contending season that prevented them from trading Joc and Rodon for young guys.

Have no idea what's going on in that video

Have no idea what's going on in that video

Ball was hit up the middle, kicked off his foot, bounced up, natural movements led to ball landing in glove.

https://www.mlb.com/news/carlos-rodon-makes-kick-save-for-the-out

https://www.sfgate.com/giants/article/carlos-correa-rafael-devers-giants-17699458.php

I'm ok with how this off-season turned out. They went after Judge and came out short. Personally I didn't want Judge anyways I wanted Correa. When Correa leg came back with issues, backing out was the right move. They should have let Crawford stay at short and had Correa at third for one season but I think Brandon understood the situation.

That’s why the Giants have to hope they were really, really, really right about Correa and his health. If his ankle falls off in three years while making a 6-3 putout, they look like geniuses. If he’s an impact player for the next six to seven years, and then a useful player for the rest of his career, they look foolish. There’s not a lot of in-between.

This seems a little off to me. To be "really, really, really right about Correa," does the writer mean they should be rooting for him to get hurt? To me, they already look "right" in that the Mets are dealing with the same issue. The Giants, understandably, didn't want to spend $350M on a player who couldn't pass a physical to their satisfaction. The Mets are taking that chance. May work out, may not, but if it does, I don't think that reflects badly on the Giants.

I agree with that.

The Mets are the Yankees and Dodgers: they can spend whatever they want, and if it doesn't work out, they'll just spend some more. Not everybody can do that.

I'm ok with how this off-season turned out. They went after Judge and came out short. Personally I didn't want Judge anyways I wanted Correa. When Correa leg came back with issues, backing out was the right move. They should have let Crawford stay at short and had Correa at third for one season but I think Brandon understood the situation.

The Mets are the Yankees and Dodgers: they can spend whatever they want, and if it doesn't work out, they'll just spend some more. Not everybody can do that.

Ideally, sure, but can the Giants afford Correa and Ohtani? That'd be $750M right there. There are other models to build a winning team.

left the guy getting ready for a presser twenty minutes before they realised “hmmm something’s not right with the medical”
- front office didn’t bother to say anything

Not sure if this is true according to Alex Pavlovic podcast (Giants NBC Sports Beat Writer) the Giants front office let Boris know on Monday, a day before the press conference, that there were red flags on their report and they were looking into getting more opinions. Press conference was canceled three hours before, not minutes.

Not saying it wasn't a clusterfuck because it was. What they did with Crawford was the worst and to compound that other players on the team too. But in hindsight it wasn't as bad as it sure seemed at first. They were right to withdraw the contract.

Ideally, sure, but can the Giants afford Correa _and_ Ohtani? That'd be $750M right there. There are other models to build a winning team.

xps also I didn’t realise that about the presser, thank you for the clarification (sounds like Boras may have put that part out to justify his behaviour?)

Front office still said nothing though

(xpost) This is also the franchise that won three WS in six years without making the flashy signings you're suggesting. And evidently Correa was happy to sign with the Giants based on who they have now--they turned him away, not the other way around.

That was then, when they had produced good players from the farm system?! They don’t have anyone coming through like that now.

I get what your saying, and the Giants got lucky with Bumgarner and Posey developing the way they did; I'm sure they weren't necessarily counting on the greatest WS pitcher ever and a generational HOF'er when they drafted them. But a couple of smart draft picks and then building on that doesn't necessarily take a lot of time; Bumgarner was drafted in 2007, Posey in 2008, and they won their first title in 2010. That's sort of what the Jays are trying to do with Guerrero and Bichette: start there and work out. I don't know anything about the Giants' finances, but I just can't see them outspending the Dodgers and now, apparently, the Padres. I was touting Correa for MVP before all this craziness started, but I honestly think in the long run the Giants will not regret him going elsewhere.

Posey and Lincecum (who you completely omitted to mention as the first of those three draft picks for some reason), were both Golden Spikes winners. All three were consecutive first round draft picks. Obviously teams do expect those picks to pan out, but in reality tons of first round picks don’t. These three did, and how.

However, the Giants have never drafted a hitter in those years comparable to any of the pitchers (Cain, Lincecum, Bumgarner) or Posey. They had to bring Bonds in. Obviously they have position players that can hit but they’re not known as a low-hitting team in the past two decades for no reason. That’s what they’re trading for. Someone who can reliably hit and give them a bit of star power.

Like, do you not remember them bringing in Beltran in 2011? Those WS teams were always looking for run support. You don’t need a guy to do five innings on short rest in game 7 if you’ve got anyone who can reliably deliver.

who you completely omitted to mention as the first of those three draft picks for some reason[

A very mysterious reason: I forgot. (Besides which, Lincecum was the second-best starter on the 2010 team, and not all that important to the 2012/14 teams--he wasn't central in the way that Bumgarner/Posey were.)

I swear to god, I don't know what point you're trying to make. That the Giants should bring in great players? Well, yeah, they should--but not doing what the Rangers do, which is spending untold amounts of money when they're not even a .500 team. And they did land a great player in Correa, until they found out that they was a risky investment. So they passed, and now he's either someone else's problem or someone else's successful gamble. They won 107 games two years ago, and they were a .500 team last year who drew 2.5 million fans. And now they should...panic and start emptying the vault to grab a wild-card spot?

I mean, I really do appreciate how much you've absorbed in your year of watching baseball and your spirited insistence on explaining the subtleties of the game to me. It's taken me 50 years to get to where you've gotten.

Oh I see, the 2010 series doesn’t count for some reason. Weird.

Like, do you not remember them bringing in Beltran in 2011?

No, I don't, but thanks for reminding me. They traded for Beltran, he was great, and they didn't make the playoffs that year. In 2012, Beltran was gone. Who did they trade for Beltran? Zach Wheeler, currently one of this best pitchers in baseball.

This is an argument you're making in favour of hitting the panic button?

I swear to god, I don't know what point you're trying to make

_Like, do you not remember them bringing in Beltran in 2011?_

No, I don't, but thanks for reminding me. They traded for Beltran, he was great, and they didn't make the playoffs that year. In 2012, Beltran was gone. Who did they trade for Beltran? Zach Wheeler, currently one of this best pitchers in baseball.

This is an argument you're making in _favour_ of hitting the panic button?

Oh I see, the 2010 series doesn’t count for some reason.

And I said this exactly where? What I said was that Lincecum was a somewhat key player in 2010, and not key at all in 2012/2014, which was a response to you equating Lincecum with Bumgarner/Posey as central to the three WS teams. He wasn't.

I’m arguing that the team needed a big signing of that type--this is exactly when teams end up overpaying somebody, when for whatever reason they decide they need this one player. Nobody needs any one player; there are always alternatives.

Suddenly I'm rooting for the Giants to have a great season with what they have.

I'm sorry you can't help me. Because I really do need your help in making sense of all this.

There’s no equating and honestly this is bizarre and annoying. I am referring to the three singularly great drafts they made in consecutive years and which I’m not sure any team has replicated since. It’s lightning in a bottle, and if it was so easy to do, teams wouldn’t bother with the Scott Borases, but teams always need to bring in/trade for what they don’t have.

The notion that Lincecum didn’t matter in 2010 is weird, like omitting Zito coming through with a winning season in 2012, Cain’s amazing 2012, Vogelsong himself in 2012 - in fact 2012 was a real whole team effort and I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone say that Posey and Bumgarner were “central” to the 2012 title. Posey, undeniable case, but Bumgarner had the exact same regular season ERA as Vogelsong, and he got lit up in two postseason games to a degree none of the rotation ever have in that scenario. Again, you want to make a case for a pitcher being central to 2012 it’s going to be Cain and Zito. And if you want to talk postseason 2012 you’ve got to include Lincecum and Scutaro, probably Pence too.

I made a general statement covering all three titles--"equating Lincecum with Bumgarner/Posey as central to the three WS teams"--which you've chopped up into parts. As convenient shorthand, bWAR for those three seasons: Lincecum - 0.5 (two years with negative value), Bumgarner - 8.1, Posey - 16.6. Two of those players are central, one isn't.

this is bizarre and annoying.

Let's end this on some common ground.

Yes, you generalised because you didn’t know what you were talking about. “Chopping into parts” = referring to the individual seasons by what actually happened.

you didn’t know what you were talking about

I don't usually say stuff like this, but Jesus fuck it amazes me what a self-appointed expert you are based on a few months of watching YouTube clips (taken from the thread where we're all supposed to thrill to your magical journey of self-discovery): "This year I did something I didn't expect; I got into baseball."

It’s a real mystery why interest in the sport is dying.

And as for “a few months of YouTube clips” - watching all three postseasons in full, watching large swathes of regular seasons in full, reading about the teams and games in books and coverage from the beat writers who were there at the time and knew the teams best, reading blogs breaking down stuff into absolutely minuscule details to understand more. Sorry for not being born in America and this game being quite literally foreign to me.

What I’m not doing:
- getting misty eyed over Great Men in History
- writing to Bill James
- reducing people to numbers and refusing to see the game for what it is

I apologize for knocking your thread--heat of the moment, and I didn't appreciate "you didn't know what you were talking about." It just seems like you pounce on half the stuff I post here.

"Getting misty-eyed over Great Men in History"--don't know what that means...That I like Willie Mays? Someone else on here said I was jaded. Do jaded people get misty-eyed? You guys can work that out.

No apologies for writing to, reading, or continuing to view many things about baseball within the context of the profound influence James had on me 40 years ago. I know he's not the same writer now that he was then, but influences like that don't just disappear.

Statistics are a fundamental part of the game. "Refusing to see the game for what it is" was pretty much the foundation of sabermetrics.

The fact that you're not American is of no importance to me. Neither am I--and in fact used to get grief for posting on the American politics thread for that very reason.

FWIW, Lincecum played a big role out of the bullpen in the 2012 postseason. And they wouldn't have won without Zito either, even though he was just OK in the regular season. Everyone agrees that the Zito contract was a disaster, but OTOH they don't win that year without him, so is it a wash? He was overpaid, but it's not like his contract prevented the front office from making the other moves they needed to win.

And that's the point of the Correa non-deal too, isn't it? Big free agents are almost always overpaid based on what they can deliver. But if teams have the money to spend (and the Giants obviously do) then a well timed signing can alter the history of the franchise.

Well, they did sign him, and then--for reasons I agree with--they walked away. Whether that means they now need to sign (if I understand gyac's argument correctly) two high-priced free agents to replace him--the first one to attract the next one--I think they'd be better to invest that money elsewhere for now.

It was you who last week compared the Jays right now with the Giants of the three WS--tinker around, try to get in the playoffs, and take it from there: "put together a solid 85-90 win team, retool in July before the deadline, and hope for a playoff run." I really don't see that as a bad strategy in this day and age.