should i give the grateful dead a chance?

yes im the synaesthesia police

I always had the same problem with Ice Cream Kid from Europe '72
https://www.dead.net/sites/g/files/g2000007851/files/dead_site_files/images/19721105_0648.jpg

Lol x 2

B-b-but what about Mr. Natural?

Ha I always thought the skull lightning bolt thing was the only of their logos that made ANY sense. I fucking hate the dancing bears. My wife bought me a dancing bear belt last Xmas. I gritted my teeth and stuffed it in the bottom of my drawer.

Had you not communicated your distaste beforehand?

You need to drop a tab

https://extrachill.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/owsley-stanley-blotter-art.jpg

in conclusion: i didn't hate when the GD just light off into the endless twinkling improv bits -- sometimes it reminds me of 80s soukous -- but the songs that get them started all sound the same to me and very unspecial

i noped out and went to bed when casey jones wasn't a cover of the TV themetune

On this website, the late Owsley (aka Bear) spent a lot of time making somewhat pedantic and slightly exasperated corrections to common assumptions.

The one on the dancing bears is vmic:

I guess you may have realised by now that the bears on the album cover are not really "dancing". I don't know why people think they are, their positions are quite obviously those of a high-stepping march. You can also see what some people think are "bibs", are actually a sylization of the chest fur of the bear.

(On his website)

mods invite the late owsley (aka bear) to this website

the kind of pedantry our site could really use

Well, yeah.

I am always interested in this thread’s question because I often want to know what prevents people from getting into the Dead, particularly if it seems like the sort of thing they’d be into.

For me, I love jamming out, but the minute that any vocals happen, I want to turn the music off. None of these guys could sing, and so when one of em starts mewling acidically after 15 minutes of lovely psychedelic improvisation, my thoughts immediately turn to a different question. How could a band ruin so much of their own material simply by singing? It’s mind-boggling to me.

For me the endless twinkling improv bits (cf. mark s) are the main draw. Maybe the often insufferable vocals and shabby playing kind of put the twinkly bits into even sharper relief. Merely twinkling would result in less impact, so the pain/pleasure dialectic is key. (Granted, I mostly listen to Europe '72 full concerts, so don't know if this explanation would apply to other eras.)

Jerry’s voice before it went to shit had a lovely timbre imho

I agree about the Jerry timbre! Off-key singing and mistiming though...

The biggest surprise of the recent-ish documentary was the clip of them rehearsing vocal harmonies. Jerry ran Bob and Phil through one line several times, and I thought, “They rehearsed their vocals?!” — all live evidence being to the contrary.

You could put the weakness of the vocals down to not being able to properly hear themselves on stage, but things didn’t improve with their Wall Of Sound PA which supposedly allowed them to hear themselves much more clearly. But they knew their singing wasn’t the greatest; almost all the vocals on Europe ‘72 were overdubbed in the studio. For me, Pigpen’s utterly hapless attempts at “Hard To Handle” and “Hey Jude” are the nadir of Dead vocals, which is saying something.

iirc Crosby claims to have helped the Dead with their three-part harmonies at one point ... but you can only do so much.

It's definitely part of Dead lore that whatever film, CD, song, bootleg etc of theirs is under discussion, it's never the right 'intro' for non-believers. But that really is true of the Grateful Dead Movie imho

I thought that was Phish lore!

tbf as an outsider, the grateful dead movie is a better intro than the three or four canonic LPs I have a long try a couple of years ago upthread

it's not good as a movie (jampacked with fvck-awful animation and vox pops with their more annoying fans) but it points you towards the endless twinkling improv bits™️ rather than away from them -- i definitely now get it more than i did

I quoted this in some other dead thread but mention of the grateful dead movie caused me to search for it - I've used "get my space together" for like 30 years now because of this guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZPJ_VN3Iis

Jerry’s voice before it went to shit had a lovely timbre imho

This is true, but also his later voice added some levity to performances of, say, "Black Muddy River" and "Wharf Rat" after it went to shit.

apparently I can't like to a specific time - add &t=2210s to that URL

Jerry’s voice before it went to shit had a lovely timbre

the minute that any vocals happen, I want to turn the music off.

lol the fact that both of these are commonly held opinions is one of the great paradoxes of the Dead.

The vocals are fine on the albums. No one’s required to listen to live shows.

My controversial Dead opinion is that they were very significant album band, and you could exclusively listen to the albums (studio plus major/official “live” ones), and be very fulfilled.

As a moderate fan, I feel an outsider as I have probably only listened to about 15 - 20 % of their live catalogue.

The sheer size of the catalogue, and number of versions of songs, is intimidating - and then there’s other irritations such as the more annoying cult-like fans, and distaste for the corporate bloat that the whole money-making GD enterprise became (and still is).

Great band overall though.

Two summers ago I listened to approximately ~25 versions of "Dark Star" as an exercise, and it allowed me— who really only knew a few major studio records and Europe '72— to understand why people go gaga over this stuff. Alas, the singing keeps me from really taking a deeper dive than that experiment allowed me, but I don't mind it if people put the Dead on or whatever. I just find the phenomenon really funny in an almost confusing way!

Haven't seen The Grateful Dead Movie, but The Closing of Winterland-1978) used to get broadcast as as local PBS fundraiser, and certainly had the twinkly bits minus crap animation x fanz (lots more music on 4-CD soundtrack, and DVD incl. a whole sep. New Years show at Winterland, but I've never seen it); also, I'm told that Downhill From Here(1989) is a good concert doc. Also have only seen bits of the Sunshine Daydream concert show, although album is good. Excerpts incl. ugly dancing and sweat, glaring radiation ov Sun.

xpost Then, like me, this might probably be your favorite GD release.

https://plunderphonic.bandcamp.com/album/grayfolded

The vox just murder this band for me, and I can actually take some Jerry without running screaming for the hills (I will rep for Shady Grove with David Grisman as one of the alltime great albums of renditions of folksongs).

I just tried to imagine what singer would make the Dead appealing to me, and after some soul-searching it turns out it’s Perry Farrell (circa Ritual), triple-tracked vocals and treatments and all. I think I could listen to that all day. (Not sure how it would fare on chuggers like “Casey Jones” or whatevs, but I’d listen to a lot of “Dark Star” in that mode.)

But then who am I kidding? I could listen to a lot of “Dark Star” in any mode. I put together a playlist of every version I could find on Spotify in chronological order — about 20 hours’ worth. AND I’VE LISTENED TO IT

Also have only seen bits of the Sunshine Daydream concert show, although album is good. Excerpts incl. ugly dancing and sweat, glaring radiation ov Sun.

Naked pole guy! Honestly, the "Dark Star" from that show is essential Dead viewing imo. It's a killer version, probably my favorite ever, by itself, but paired with the encroaching dusk as they played makes it a little harder (provided of course you get past the crap animations they dropped in between the footage).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aG2lkIRoCqc

the "Dark Star" from that show is essential Dead viewing imo.

That "Dark Star" was what made me do a complete (and completely unexpected) 180 on the Dead. Despised them for decades, then suddenly, "...hm...this is...good...?"

And therein lies my contradictory Dead opinion: I have yet to be transported by a "Dark Star." I like the earliest ones best, when they're 5 or 6 minutes. After that became one of their lengthy exploratory vehicles I just lose patience. One person's lovely twinkly bits are another's self-indulgent nonsense, I guess.

Even though I've already been a big fan of "Dark Star", I've been enjoying this blog, Every Dark Star, that does what the title says and has some folks going through every "Dark Star" in chronological order, noting the developments of the various themes and modular jams over the years. Paired with specific timing notations, I've found it to be a really great supplement while I'm listening.

Well that's why I linked Grayfolded above there. It kinda IS the ultimate "Dark Star."

I could take or leave "Dark Star," it's definitely never been a cornerstone of my Dead appreciation (just to provide a contrasting experience).

Well that's why I linked _Grayfolded_ above there. It kinda IS the ultimate "Dark Star."

one of my quarantine projects has been to listen to all my Dead shows in order. I'm up to November '77 and all three shows I've heard absolutely rip. that Colgate show in particular is as good if not better than the best May shows.

One of my favorite little corners of the live catalog is in the mid-80s when Jerry’s voice is really fading and he does slow, often death-related, ballads. 83-85 Baby Blues and Stella Blues tend to be good examples of this. His croaky voice makes it sound like It Really Is All Over Now, Baby Blue.

The She Belongs to Me from the Greek Theater in June ‘85 is prob my favorite example. The series of killer guitar solos don’t hurt.

I've never minded their voices, but now it occurs to me that one could make copies of mostly instrumental performances, edit out the vocal bits---also, I like David Murray's Dark Star---The Music of the Grateful Dead, with his Octet, except the final track feat. just him and Weir (playing acoustic guitar). The 'Tube usually has at least one show clip of Murray onstage with the Dead---when they were trying to make up for Garcia's fade by bringing on the guests (wish I could find Ornette's appearance). Think there might be more w Murray in the Dead section of archive.org.

The late jerry ballads are too real
Like Elvis doing American trilogy live in 76-77

thanks for that link, Ned.

Grayfolded rules, happy to see more love here (Oswald is also a genius, deep digging is rewarding)

Yeah you can pick up all five of his releases on Bandcamp there for $25 I think — well worth it.

Wow, listening to the Doors album, it’s great! Eccojams

https://plunderphonic.bandcamp.com/album/elektrax

yeah Elektrax is amazing, "vane" is my fave there