Real love -- I'm, like, searchin' for that Queer Love -- LGBTQIA+ Love // A Thread for the Real Ones

Named after what Blanche called Rose's cousin in that one episode of The Golden Girls too, if I'm not mistaken.

more champagne!

hahahaha yes and yes

THE WAY HE'S
BEEN REJECTING YOU.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN REJECTING ME?

WELL, CANCELING
TWICE IN TWO DAYS.

THEN HE SHOWS UP WITH
THAT GIRL TODAY. WOO!
HOW OLD COULD SHE HAVE BEEN?

NOT VERY.

YOU'RE NOT LIKE MOST WOMEN,
BLANCHE, I'LL TELL YOU THAT.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN?

WOULDN'T MOST WOMEN LET A
THING LIKE THIS MAKE THEM FEEL OLD?

YES.

AND UNATTRACTIVE?

YES.

WORN OUT?

YES.

USELESS?

WHAT'S YOUR POINT, SWEN?!

Fuh-loyd!

"In die-ah-pers, Rose!"

lololol
def with my people here

Wow, I love you homos

❤️💚💙💜💘🤍💋💋💋

And he’d bend over backwards for me

🤣🤣🤣 that guy was in four Murder She Wrote episodes and later wound up on Melrose Place as Alison's father. he's also been in like 500 other things.

rambling gender stuff

so i really don't know to what extend it's "me" or some kind of deeply embedded reactive strategy but i've always been drawn to very masc presentations since i first started discovering my own sexuality. it's part of the reason i lift weights and eat a lot of meat. i'm kind of done second guessing it because it brings me pleasure even if it also feels like an "alien" pleasure that is disorienting and alienating and kind of silly sometimes and seems to confuse people who have progressive attitudes or creative dispositions (which i share). and there's the rub, people want to socialize with someone who feels safe to them, and i probably present a certain amount of toxic masc vibes, and i internalize the conflict between my presentation and a part of myself that isn't visible, that i almost wish wasn't a part of me sometimes. on the other hand i can't fully embrace masc presentation as reflective of who i really am. i think part of my difficulty with being social is related to this conflict.

anyway, i'm trying to relax as much as i can around it but it's hard. lately i've felt the outlines of my female persona, all i think i know about it is that it's a "tom girl." i always identified with those types of characters growing up. i don't know. is looking butch a safety blanket that is holding me back? maybe. this has been a big thing for me for as long as i can remember and i don't feel like i've ever made much progress on it, it's just there more or less all the time. sorry, just typing all this out somewhere since it's been on my mind lately and i don't have a therapist.

well, there's definitely a lot of gray area there, and there isn't one answer or the other. like it's certainly not just a safety blanket - a natural preference in large part, seems to me. i'm also attracted to masc presenting folk, amongst many other things. and i totally hear you regarding the conflict on 2 levels - "presenting", in so many ways (not just gender), is so different from who one really is. as a gay Lebanese immigrant with all kinds of gender wack in his head but light skin and a penis, i think i'm often perceived as having a certain sort of privilege that i don't really relate to. also, the masc v femme part is one of the biggest struggles in my life for sure. i don't want to feel at odds with my femininity, but i can't say i don't feel that pressure sometimes. so, you're not alone, and it's complex af.

hey, thanks for sharing swen. :)

back atcha

how's the gym these days mappy?

it's ok. i'm very antisocial at the gym lol. generally speaking i resent that it's a social experience foisted upon me when all i want to do is relax and get in my body. i avoid eye contact like the plague.

on the other hand, sometimes i find myself enjoying the bro-y aspect of it. there is a fun borderline erotic male energy sometimes. the area with the dumbbells and bench presses and mirrors is usually where i feel it. someone gave me a wave hi the other day, which was nice.

i had this gym crush for a while, very untended macho dad look. i followed him into the dry sauna once but any acknowledgment was avoided so i didn't get any creepier.

i don't mean to brag but i'm good and comfortable lifting, i've been regularly doing it at least 6 days a week now for a couple of years. at this point it's just what i do. i spend a fair amount of money on supplements and all that. it's an enthusiasm, a reason, an excitement. i try not to make it a topic of conversation, unless someone wants to talk about it, and i try to be as kind as possible, gay men have so much anxiety about it. i never do gym selfies except i broke down and did one the other day because i was out of town in a small gym and maybe i wanted some likes haha.

I'm glad you brought it up, map, because for many years I've wondered at the image I project. No observant person who meets me is under no illusions, but enough are that I sometimes freeze.

For example: at a birthday two weekends ago, a woman hit on me for the first time in decades. I found it flattering! But I kept thinking, do I camp it up so she doesn't get the wrong idea? In the end I just let it go, chalking it up on her part to a couple glasses of wine too many.

We know masculinity is a performance. When and how and where to perform remains the mystery/delight for me.

interesting comments, map. your posts have stimulated a lot of thoughts for me, but they are hard to articulate

Yeah. I'm regretting my post out of fear I didn't address his points.

would like to say a lot, just not sure of the words.

I’ve always been attracted to masculine guys. I’ve wondered if it is internalized homophobia - it probably is - but at this point in my life I don’t really care

I don’t think I ever stepped into a male world quite as much as when I started working out in gyms in SF in my late 20s and 30s. Every type of man was there, straight and gay. I met a lot guys I ended up dating or having sex with, some I just had crushes on, a straight guy I met in the sauna and became best friends with, many gay friends who’ve dispersed throughout the world but who've remained in touch, a macho man who challenged me about domain over the squats rack, and a masculine guy I was really attracted to and entered into a relationship with but who in the end had his own issues

nice to hear everyone's thoughts about this stuff tbh.

a fb friend posted the other day "testosterone is hot but also gross" and as much as it's inaccurate, like a single hormone doesn't add up to gender, it kind of encapsulates my experience in a way.

a macho man who challenged me about domain over the squats rack

i'm having trouble imagining this tbh. i've heard of similar stories, big dudes chasing smaller dudes away, but it's such a ridiculous thing to do i just can't imagine how it goes.

the last time i witnessed awful noxious masc weirdness in the gym was at fuckin 6:30 on a sunday morning. i walk in the gym, it's super quiet, i walk over to what i call the "man cave" where all the dumbbells are and there is a group of 7-8 dudes who are like SCREAMINGLY loud, just hooting and hollering at each other, giving each other bro slaps and all this shit - they were seriously like a pack of baboons. i turned my headphones all the way up and i could still hear them. they were there for an hour and they did not calm down the entire time. it was super weird, annoying and gross.

like, i hadn't witnessed loud attention-seeking group behavior in a pack of males since maybe high school and it was a little unbelievable to be watching late-20s early-30s guys go all out with it.

also i have weird feelings when other gay men tell me "you wouldn't know that you're gay" or "you don't look gay". it's just, idk, it's complicated, you know? i present as masc and my style is generally conservative but that doesn't mean i'm not a burning queer ember from the rainbow sky of feelings. sure i have settled on masc presentation as something that feels authentic to me in some way but it's always just one step away from the male supremacy tradition of making another group or identity seem weaker and i will never, can never take that step, i try really hard to untake it, i know in my heart it's disgusting bullshit, it would not honor me as a whole person, let alone anyone else.

another random thought is that objectification of masc types is real. maybe this sounds like crying from the side of the more powerfully-coded, because a lot of masc types play it up and enjoy the attention, but there's a gross and alienating aspect to it too.

great posts map, they express a lot of what I have felt

not to chain post too much but i have also had the experience of being hit on by attractive women and it is flattering. to what degree that's internalized homophobia idk but i enjoy it when it happens.

xp thanks dan, good posts from you too

Hi guys. I doubt anyone remember me from 10 years ago. Just wanted to pop in. *Goes back to lurking.*

Interesting posts, map and all.

I present as pretty masc but then I begin talking and it seems to quickly take the sails out of any theories that I might be straight. I also keep in shape but am not musclebound— I’m a tiny guy, and find too-large muscles really unattractive on myself and others, sorry to say. I’d say that there are times when I am “skinny jacked,” if that makes sense.

I am mostly interested in dismantling systems of masculine power, so my presentation and way in the world is sometimes at odds with my desires and people are confused by me, but really it just comes down to the fact that I am most comfortable in clothes that are coded as masculine. I’ve never liked dressing up, and while I have a sense of style, it is mostly along the “aging punk guy” lines, with a dash of queer short shorts energy thrown in during the summer.

Although I'm not into muscle queens per se, I can find certain other gay performances of masc sexier than actual hetero masc. With hetero masc, you're sneaking glances while politely concealing your desire, whereas performative gay masc is more "it's alright to look - actually, please look". So slutty looking gays often do it for me; I vibe off the narcissism and appreciate the generosity!

i relate to that - it's nice to hear that thought articulated. hetero masc is so constraining. i also love to see other queers who are embracing it all. sorry to share a facebook meme here but "if gender is a performance, i want to star in a cult classic that bombs at the box office."

I'm in an odd position. I'd say 98% of my interactions, intimate or brief, take place with straight people. My three closest friends are straight dudes, one of whom is happily married with kids (his kid is my godson). In an example of how context matters, I come off and purposely present myself as more femme than usual in their company, whereas with my gay friends (not many in town, alas) I'm butch.

don't mean to derail the thread but I'm wondering if other gay guys here shave their balls

maybe that is too personal

It's not and I do

Honestly it should be on one's state-issued ID

lol

fwiw I think every guy straight or gay should shave their balls and the base of their penis, and trim the surrounding pubes, it is just a requirement if you want good oral sex

nothing makes me sadder than shaved balls. nothing

I know people have different preferences and don't think I will understand why that's sad to you

so i really don't know to what extend it's "me" or some kind of deeply embedded reactive strategy but i've always been drawn to very masc presentations since i first started discovering my own sexuality. it's part of the reason i lift weights and eat a lot of meat. i'm kind of done second guessing it because it brings me pleasure even if it also feels like an "alien" pleasure that is disorienting and alienating and kind of silly sometimes and seems to confuse people who have progressive attitudes or creative dispositions (which i share). and there's the rub, people want to socialize with someone who feels safe to them, and i probably present a certain amount of toxic masc vibes, and i internalize the conflict between my presentation and a part of myself that isn't visible, that i almost wish wasn't a part of me sometimes. on the other hand i can't fully embrace masc presentation as reflective of who i really am.

I have the same experience (well, I don't lift weights or eat meat but y'know) and this is something I've also been wrestling with for years and think about probably every day.

One thought is, as someone who fetishizes buzz cuts and workout shorts and etc, I don't wear these things with the same casual air as a het dude who does not fetishize them, even though there are gonna be days when it's a very subtle or imperceptible difference.

I regard it as an indulgence, ultimately. It brings me a lot of pleasure but I can't help also feeling ashamed and there's a constant dissatisfaction with "presenting" in a way that doesn't reflect my character at all apart from one aspect of my sexuality.

My female persona def plays Disney princess tea party, like the goal for me is to get over the dissatisfaction of it and become one with that duality. I need both things and both are "me".

I enjoy to be femme in the summer with dresses and legs and masc in the winter with a beard and jeans

My preferred hair removal method is (was) Nair, specifically in the crevasses (I prefer a clipped pubis) but yes, I Nair my balls

A couple of summers ago I planned a beachy weekend and prepped for a smooth and delightful sundress situation on a Thursday, applied the poison ointment and set the timer

When it came time for the terrible shower, I stepped in and realized that the water had been shut off for the day

I frantically called my boyfriend while scooping water from the toilet reservoir to rinse my oddities as best as I could with whatever water was available, then put on some loose flannel and sprinted the ten blocks over to his place

By the time I arrived, Nair has been sitting around my butthole for some 45 minutes. I ducked into the shower near tears and turned the water on. I have never felt such pain

feel like i might have said this in a previous gay thread but: i don’t shave or trim anything below my neck, i just like being a furball

I had to shave my pubes when I had radiation, as they needed a clear shot of a tattoo right above my dick to aim the radiation lasers, and now I just do it as a matter of habit, tho I get lazy about it sometimes. I don’t have much preference but do admit that I tend to be more attracted to less hair… which perhaps explains the string of boyfriends prior to my husband, and now my husband, who got the best parts of Chinese and southern Italian ancestry— namely, a virtually hairless body (except pubes and pits) but a not insignificant endowment in other areas.

:-)

By which you mean 'they had full healthy heads of hair' I assume?

Lol, no, I am talking about the salami

I admire this thread's movement from muscles to salami.

most forms of hair removal strike me as an arduous and painful scam. shaving my face is enough for most of the year

that good oral sex requires shaved balls is news to me