Lilacs Out of the Dead Land, What Are You Reading? Spring 2022

I watched the TV programme of that novel and didn't greatly enjoy it. The one positive was the use of the Institute of Education, Bloomsbury, as a setting.

i finally finished season of migration to the north. i'm a little flabbergasted tbh. it's hard to know what to say about it, other than i can't stop thinking about it. one thing is don't recall ever reading a novel so compelling.

― the cat needs to start paying for its own cbd (map), Friday, April 29, 2022 3:41 PM (three days ago) bookmarkflaglink

yaaaaaay i love this book! i teach it every year and this year my students did not love it, so i am extra-glad you did. it rules.

Read it in anticipation of the Park Chan-wook miniseries (one of my fave directors) and by the time I'd finished it I couldn't bother to watch the show.

haha yes me too!

it's extremely Voice of the Reasonable New York Times in its politics, in what respect? Examples? Also, how has code head culture changed so much? Less male-dominated and/or better attitude? Hope so, but haven't heard that.

the author presumes good faith and good intent from all US govt sources throughout, and seems like a bit of a mark for russiagate related conspiracies.

the sentence i quote is just lazy facile superficial cliched writing about tech. it's such bad writing that i wrote it down. there's a kernel of truth here in the way lazy facile superficial cliches often have a kernel of truth. (except "testosterone fueled", which does not mean male-dominated in common usage and seems like an editing mistake tbh.) but it's a book about the culture of the infosec community, so you might expect it to contain richer and subtler ideas than the evening news.

best guess at the meaning of code head culture: has trimmed beard spends more time on facial hair than code uses words like gnarly wears black long sleeve t-shirts
best case image of code head culture: writes clean code understandable by anyone and with expertise according to constraints that take into account those served and the culture itself

(deeply regret the implicit assumption (viz. facial hair) that the term applies to males)

the culture itself meaning what counts among savants of the culture according to existing constraints

security seems to have traditionally been ranked low in the hierarchy that exists within this amorphous culture (viz. the respect shown sys admins ... I don't think the culture includes mathematicians ... )

Things I have been reading, an inconclusive list:

NANA - Ai Yazawa.

I don’t really read much manga in general but I loved Yazawa’s Paradise Kiss which a good friend recommended me and have been reading the back volumes of Nana on and off for a few months. (There’s a lot of it!) Two young women, both called Nana, meet and end up as housemates in Tokyo. Nana K is sensitive, flighty and vaguely ridiculous; Nana O is a tough no-nonsense type who is a talented singer who dreams of stardom. Despite this cliché beginning, the story expands and unfurls and grows. More characters, more tiny events that build the picture piece by piece. I’ve never cared for the art style much but it’s useful in illustrating the many expressions in this story. And I love her lineart and detailing. The story, of the particularly intense relationships you form in your early twenties (and particularly those with other women) is familiar and sad and I read like five chapters every time and I still leave gaps cos in the back of my mind I’m aware that it’s been on hiatus since 2009. Anyway, love this very much.

The Club & People Like Her - both Ellery Lloyd

From time to time I like to read some trash, ok, basically most of the time. These two novels are both by the same husband and wife couple and one is about a thinly veiled Soho House murder mystery (I loved this a lot and read it all in an evening) and the other is the story of an influencer with a murderous stalker. The characters are sketched - this is very much plot driven work from start to finish - but that’s fine, and I found them both very easy to read and a good palate cleanser. Strongly recommend for travel reading.

Red as Blood - Tanith Lee

I’ve read these before but they are still fantastic reading - Lee’s retelling of classic fairy tales across the ages and genres is great and can always snap me out of any lull. Like all the good retellings, Lee leans on the creepiest elements of the original stories - the Pied Piper taking all the children, princesses being dispatched to new lands with their husbands that they barely know, what it means to sleep for a century. Anyway, strongly recommend this collection as always, the reissued cover is fucking appalling and gives you zero indication of the quality of the stories.

Cool, can always use more variety around here, and thanks for reminder for me to check Tanith Lee---btw, was thinking that the xpost Brad Watson novel Miss Jane is a happy example of male author writing from POV of female central character (also does some of that with other characters, including men), good for your thread about that.

xpost "testosterone fueled", which does not mean male-dominated in common usage and seems like an editing mistake tbh.) Seems like it pretty much is assumed to mean that, at least in American common usage.

I love Nana also. What I know about manga you could write out twice on the back of a postage stamp but Martin Skidmore wrote about it here: http://freakytrigger.co.uk/wedge/2010/02/comics-a-beginners-guide-girls-comics/ and I bought in. The hiatus hadn’t lasted long when I was ripping through it, I had every expectation of new issues emerging :(

I miss Martin Skidmore too. Quite often things crop up I wish I could ask him about. Information I can get elsewhere but I miss his taste and the pleasure of having him tell me about stuff.

Oh Tim, thank you for this link, and I love that you love it also. I never knew MS but he seemed a nice sort from what everyone says about him.

I feel as if I could happily watch them together in their flat, at the table in the bay window, forever.

Go Went Gone, Jenny Erpenbeck. Not sure where it's going but already feel gently scolded for my comfortable life.

I don't know much about manga either -- this podcast has been fun to dip into and is relatively podcast-banter-free: https://www.mangasplaining.com.

Ah, I listened to the episode on there about Helter Skelter, and it was great! I learned a lot about it, like the fact that the nudity was hugely controversial in Japan (and some of it was technically illegal, being uncensored where it normally would be iirc?!) It still won awards in Japan though, so that clearly didn’t matter much. I thought of this before the last ILB FAP actually beside I went to the Courthauld beforehand and was reading notes on paintings about controversial nudity - anyway, can second the recommendation based on the one episode I listened to and recommend Kyoko Okazaki always, ofc.

I'll check that episode out!

Unrelatedly I believe one of the hosts, Chris, was the model for Wallace in Scott Pilgrim

read THE CARTOGRAPHERS by peng shepherd. fucking awful

its central conceit, which apparently some reviewer called 'borgesian', is obvious and trite. every plot point is both telegraphed and then beaten into the ground just in case we missed it. the characters act in completely absurd ways and the plot ultimately makes no sense

worst novel i've read in years, which is the kind of shit that happens when one is up all night

Chip Zdarsky on this episode illustrates Sex Criminals, which I really like (and am behind on). I really enjoyed listening to him talk about the art.

mookieproof have u considered reading nhl fic josei manga

I couldn't help wanting to read a sample of The Cartographer's after your post, and it definitely has a touch of the Lanchester about it

yaaaaaay i love this book! i teach it every year and this year my students did not love it, so i am extra-glad you did. it rules.

― horseshoe, Monday, May 2, 2022 2:40 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

i picked it up in no small part because of your touting it in these threads, so thank you.

paul takes the form of a mortal girl by andrea lawlor

have any of y'all read this? it's a fucking delight. highly recommended if you've ever been gay in college

Finished Morselli’s Dissipatio HG. Glad to have read it, tho somewhat unsatisfied with it— I felt like the lushness of the narrator’s interior landscape was occasionally cracked by his reverence and love for the natural world, but the descriptions of the latter felt piddling in spite of his abstracted, almost anarcho-primitivist reactionary belief system.

One thing that was interesting for me was that the style of interior monologue reminded me a bit of Christa Wolf’s work, particularly in Accident and No Place on Earth.

Not sure what’s next, have a few different options, but might go with another novel— not sure why I’m feeling novels this spring, but I am.

One thing I remark about Asimov's FOUNDATION & EMPIRE: I hazarded, on no evidence, that future work might just contain some women characters, and indeed this one does - a woman called Bayta, who has a degree of strength and independence* though is still sometimes referred to as focusing on 'fripperies' like serving dinner while a war's on.

*these may sound like poor criteria for judging women characters but I remind the reader that vol 1 only contained one woman character, a surly wife, who appeared twice in 230pp.

Leaving aside the above point, I'm not sure I'm enjoying this volume as much as the first, because of the way the plot has turned halfway through towards yet another war, this time with a seemingly indestructible foe. But 50pp to go.

Will Sergeant Bunnyman
Just read the first couple of chapters so he's still a young child i think. He's gone to school and things but not got much further than that.
I just listened to his appearance on Curious Creatures the podcast done by Lol Tolhurst and Budgie which seems to be a good one.

The music of Africa J. H. Kwabena Nketia,
not really started this yet but got it from the library yesterday. 1974 book on African music and its history. Should be good, I think i had it recommended or at least cited by Paul Gilroy.

Soldaten Sonke Neitzeld and harald Welzer
Just been reading some tales told by captured Luftwaffe pilots about how they enjoyed shooting bullets at people . & targeting ships and things. The writers/editors have compared their descriptions as analogous to video game players. With a similar level of dismissal of collateral damage, like it has no effect on them and is actually something they enjoy doing. I think this book probably gets a lot more scary, examples given in the introduction would certainly suggest so.

I finished FOUNDATION & EMPIRE. I don't like the turn that this book takes c. halfway through, and don't feel greatly encouraged about reading Vol 3, but have started that already and will get through it.

Part of my reason for dislike is something that will sound deeply old-fashioned or unsophisticated, at best, to most. That is, I felt that this SF novel veered off track through factors that weren't really 'SF' or 'scientific' enough. A 'mutant' takes over the galaxy due to his unique powers of mind control. But there is no explanation of who 'mutants' are, why they arise, or why this particular mental capacity would emerge (in just one being in the galaxy?). We're in superhero territory at best. The effect is somewhat like 'magic', and thus, to me, a somewhat unhappy blend of 'SF' and 'fantasy'.

This view, I again realise, will not be respected by many readers, including SF experts, but it is part of my intuitive response to this book. I think this response is actually analogous to the old Detection Club rule that mysteries should never have supernatural solutions. This demonstrates the tendency of SF and detection to share 'cognitive' (Suvin) bases, though in reality I am aware that large amounts of SF do not, and most of the science in SF is, almost by definition, speculative or imaginary.

One more notable feature: after all my complaints about the extreme lack of women in these books, the one I mentioned, Bayta, actually turned out to be a heroine who was the strongest, most independent figure and took the final decisive action. A considerable turnaround by Asimov's standards.

Pinefox, I'm slightly surprised you haven't really said anything about Asimov's actual prose style ...

so bad it's not even prose iirc

Heh. Lots of dull exposition and drab dialogue punctured by plenty of sf-style minced oaths iirc. I believe Martin had something to say about this on more than one occasion.

Think I meant to say punctuated by but punctured kind of works too I guess.

Destroy Asimov (worst prose in SF, which is going some), Doc Smith (unless you are under 14).

― Martin Skidmore, Thursday, 16 May 2002 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

You don’t need to read this whole thing, since I excepted this best part for you.
https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/244773/why-does-the-protagonist-of-asimovs-caves-of-steel-exclaim-jehoshaphat-inste

You might wish to note that this is a technique frequently used by Asimov. Specific examples include;

The Foundation Trilogy:- "Space!", "By Space!" "Great Space!", "Good Galaxy!", "By the Galaxy!", "He went space knows where" in place of "God"
End of Eternity: "Time!" or "By Time!" in place of "God"
Reason (Robot Short Story) - "“Oh, Jupiter, a robot Descartes." in place of "Jesus",
etc

The 'Galaxy!' stuff doesn't work well for me, but I love the way that the two astronauts in I, ROBOT say 'Sizzling Saturn !!'.

A character in FOUNDATION & EMPIRE repeatedly uses the word 'unprintable' in place of an expletive.

I would say that the FOUNDATION books are workmanlike as narrative, sometimes clumsy or awkward, very occasionally and tenuously reaching for something more lyrical (about space). But I, ROBOT is better: clear, crisp, functional, rational, getting complex ethical dilemmas and the like across.

Also true that in FOUNDATION there is much bad expository dialogue ie: a character summarises something and the other character says "This is well understood. What of it? Go on!"

im also going to start saying that

great space! this is well understood. what of it? go on!

almost like it's well understood but go on king I guess

By Hammer Time!

By Space Ghost!

By Spacely’s Sprocket!

The effect is somewhat like 'magic'

any sufficiently advanced technology etc etc, which iirc was pointed out in the first book

i agree that the mule’s advent doesn’t bear too much scrutiny, but of course the story is much less about him than how The Plan will respond to him. (that doesn’t bear much scrutiny either tbh, but disbelief has to be suspended somewhere)

Thought that saying was attributed to ACC, iirc.

Anyone read Hurricane Season, by Fernanda Melchor? Just picked it up for my wife and I'm wondering if it's too bleak for her

xp it is

Prose Stylist

Some famous terrible prose writers: Isaac Asimov is unspeakably bad, tin-eared and clumsy and ugly. I love Dick (haha yes okay), but he's sometimes bad. Sinclair Lewis was stiff and dull, but not as rotten as Dreiser. Barbara Cartland is much worse than you even imagine she would be.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 8 September 2002 20:36 (nineteen years ago)

Whole posts is worth reading though, since he also says who he thinks is good.

posts

Any discussion of Bad Writing increases the already high incidence of typos for some unknownobvious reason.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzlK0OGpIRs