Phish C/D

(My girlfriend is recovering from COVID and I'm 90% sure none of my other friends will be down to go, but I don't mind flying solo...)

Not me, but since last week, I've subscribed to the Live Phish app and been blasting Phish shows nonstop and I have halfway considering getting lawn tickets for Merriweather this summer.

I don't know what's happening to me.

Seeing an MSG NYE show is on my bucket list, but won't be happening this year. Actually probably won't be seeing them at all this year, since there's no Chicago show. Alpine is great, but such a pain in the ass to get to that I can't rally anyone to make the trip.

I was at MSG new years in 1998 and 2001. It was indeed a good time. Do it, peace, man!

I'll be on Hartford lawn if anyone wants to meet up.

I was at 12/31/98 too!

nice! i might've written about this upthread somewhere, but that was one of the best weeks of my life - certainly the most carefree. i was 16, and me and a best friend spent the whole 4-night run crashing at his cousin's place who was a med student in the city at the time. we had good tickets to all 4 shows. would get home at 1am, sleep till noon every day, then get stoned and play in the city till showtime. we were on completely opposite schedules and never saw his cousin.

Ah, to be a teenage Phishhead again...

I've never actually heard any of the 98 new year's run so I just fired up the video of 12/31/98 on YouTube. Amazing setlist, thinking this is gonna be a nice ride.

Ohhh this first-set "Mike's" jam is GORGEOUS

oh yeah, get excited for the ghost too!

the 1st set is the one that stuck with me and that i always returned to, but i know people rate the tweezer in the 2nd as well

I'm deep into the "Ghost" now and it's wonderful. They seem to be in a really happy and laid-back (yet high-energy) mood. The "1999" opener set exactly the right vibe

PHISH, THURSDAY 04/21/2022
MADISON SQUARE GARDEN
New York, NY
SET 1: Suzy Greenberg[1] > 46 Days, Plasma, The Man Who Stepped Into Yesterday > Avenu Malkenu > The Man Who Stepped Into Yesterday, Wolfman's Brother, Esther, Ghost

SET 2: Chalk Dust Torture[2] -> Tweezer > Also Sprach Zarathustra > Maze, About to Run, The Mango Song > Harry Hood > Character Zero -> Tweezer -> Character Zero

ENCORE: A Life Beyond The Dream, Tweezer Reprise

[1] Dedicated to the “hero of the song,” Suzy Greenberg, who was attending her first Phish show
[2] Unfinished.

Incredible setlist porn from last night's MSG show, has me regretting not going (ended up grabbing a ticket for Saturday instead).

have fun tonight, J. Sam!

Lol at this fool at the bar with a suit jacket and underneath a phish shirt

you know where you are????? you're on the back of the WORM

(i'm finally digging through the amsterdam box set and i'm in the thick of the second set of 7/1/97 and holy christ)

I went up to a family reunion not far from Fairmount in Indiana a few weeks back, rushing through a bunch of side highways through corn fields way up on the north side of Indianapolis, I ran behind the back entry of that big campground featuring a man-made lake that is right around Deer Creek (whatever corp name this year) music park.

The Phish Navy was in full regalia for their weekend run in the campground and it was packed.

My ex-stonerrock/deadhead lead guitarist who does not really care for Phish says they are a band forever in search of a song. I dunno, they got some pretty good jams myself but I can't get with some of the goofy tunes sometimes. There is so much, but a couple of the jams above, I did get with myself. I got quite a few cds of them and they got a couple listens each, but I never got deep into them say compared to the Dead.

the drummer is classic for wearing a dress otherwise they never held my attention

― chaki (chaki), Wednesday, February 12, 2003 3:58 PM (nineteen years ago) bookmarkflaglink
did he wear a dress B4 Cobain?

― Oops (Oops), Wednesday, February 12, 2003 3:59 PM (nineteen years ago)

if jon fishman was dead i'm sure there'd be an elaborate fan mythology in which he was actually a transgender woman

and then of course there's the guy who wrote halley's comet, he detransitioned tho, still, fucking legend

So I started going through all of the shows available on Relisten, starting back in 1983. It’s been, interesting, so far, but listening to a half hour “Whipping Post” jam from late 1985 that only sound minimally like the spruce material and hits on a few almost “Dark Star” style cosmic moments…

Of course I come to read later that this is the famous show where Mike hit on the realization that he wanted to explore music forever. I can’t really recommend a ton from those early years, but the 11/23/85 “Whipping Post” is worth your time and hints and things to come…

Ugh, excuse those autocorrect errors “source” obviously.

There’s a bit about 17 and a half minutes in where this “Norwegian Wood” tease kicks in that is tremendous.

jvc that is quite a journey you've given yourself! how far do you plan to go? for me that would be a surefire way to burn out my appreciation for the music, esp once the setlists start to normalize in 88 or 89 or something, but i guess before that they're pretty varied and out there (albeit not nearly as tight). i did once have an 86 tape that got a lot of play and enjoyment from me - i think it was 12/6/86?

also of potential interest to readers of this thread: Vol 4 of the LivePhish vinyl series, where they are releasing singular epic jams, has been leaked, and it's gonna be 5/22/2000 Radio City Ghost. I am upthread somewhere recommending this jam to Brad or someone, and I still think of it as one of the most sophisticated and awesome pieces of music this band ever played. If you're a vinyl guy, highly recommend picking this one up!

I really have no idea how long I'll stick with it, just started it a few weeks ago on a whim. I tried doing it about a decade or so ago too, but as more of a formal exercise to write about every show, but that quickly felt more like a chore. This time I'm just dipping in and listening to a few songs now and then, taking an easier pace. I'm sure I'll reach that point of burnout at some point.

So I've been offered a free ticket to NYE @ MSG, never been to a Phish show, kind of want to experience that but it's also the most challenging music imaginable to me. Obviously i should accept but I worry it's going to be more of an endurance test than enjoyable. BradNelson's deep dive upthread is heroic and encouraging but is this gonna be biting off more than i can chew?

oh i would go. the last time they played msg there was a 3d projection of a whale, i.e. the production will be worth however much you end up disliking the music

Well, I did go. I mainly wanted to get a sense of what their fans love so much about 'em. They've always provoked the worst of my cynicism, and I really wanted to be able to set that aside and just try to appreciate Phish. There's something about them, and especially their fans' devotion to them, that makes me wanna try. And secondarily, I wanted the show to provide some kind of celebratory atmosphere for new years' eve. I would say they gave me all of that, but only for a glimmer; the base note was definitely Phish Show, which, i mean, fair enough. Unfortunately the sillage is disagreeable, there's a whiff of insularity. So I'm kinda disappointed, mostly in myself, that my cynicism won out in the end. Uh, because there were moments when I was grinning from ear to ear, or utterly astonished, at a total loss for words etc

In fairness, I don't think I've seen a show on anything even close to this scale. I mean, apart from Van Hagar when I was 10, the very largest venues I've been to are around 2k capacity. And I found MSG very overwhelming, it took me a good chunk of the show to adjust to the extent I was able to adjust, which was only somewhat. If there was an element of an endurance test, like, it had nothing to do with the music or the length of the show, it was more because of that. Obviously I sorta knew going into it that it's MSG, I just did not expect that to be so challenging or distracting. Just, nothing could have prepared me for that.

So, y'know, the "gag"(?) was like the stoner version of a Super Bowl halftime show kind of production *exhales slowly* I... uh... maybe this is a much more common thing in pop music than rock, i don't know. But like, it's definitely kind of brilliant how they're able to play the unpredictability cards within the predetermined framework in such a fun way. And to create this anticipation of surprise and really deliver, I defo think the Phish Roulette aspect is a big part of the appeal. They did Ghost (by far my favorite song of theirs that I know going into this) into Bohemian Rhapsody with alternate lyrics about The Story of the Ghost, and then just where the headbanging section is supposed to come in, they unexpectedly went back into Ghost- that downbeat was my single favorite moment.

I'm glad you got to experience that show, even if it didn't win you over in the end. I think I know what you mean re: insularity. Reading the description of the NYE "gag" on phish.net it sounds like a bunch of in-jokes and references to previous New Year's stunts that would be impenetrable to all but devoted Heads.

I haven't heard any of the show, but just reading this first set has me salivating: Tweezer, Halley's Comet -> Set Your Soul Free > Rift, Cavern > Tweezer > Shade, Mike's Song > I Am Hydrogen > Weekapaug Groove

They didn't win me over, but I'm feeling a little better about their show than i was when i wrote that. Guess I'm still processing. I would say i'm on the fence now, and happy with that as the takeaway. Will give them another shot when the mood strikes.

Phish NYE is an impressive undertaking for someone who doesn't like Phish!

i was surprised to find that the conventional wisdom was Rift is considered a lesser album (too slick maybe idk?) because that was my initial phoray into Phish and honestly i think it's pretty great.

rift is awesome!!!!!!

― STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Saturday, July 3, 2021 3:31 PM (one year ago) bookmarkflaglink

i got off the boat around the time of billy breathes (seemed to get away from a lot of what i liked about them at the time) but i should probably re-explore them again. i have a phish-head friend and i'm sure she has a garageful of bootlegs.

another explanation offered upthread is that some phish fans tend to rate albums by how many deathless setlist classics are on them. rift has "maze" and "it's ice" but is otherwise a coherent moodpiece and songs from it end up in the rotation sparingly

it is like a billion times better than picture of nectar but picture of nectar has "chalkdust" mannn (drained completely of its energy, god the production on nectar suxx)

would love to hear your thoughts on story of the ghost omar

I'm with you, Rift is probably one of my favorite of their studio albums. I've always thought it made for a better album experience than A Picture of Nectar, which I've always found overrated. It's fine, but so many of those songs are much better live, while I find the Rift songs to work really well in studio form too!

And, just for the hell of it, here's how I'd rank the studio output as of today:

Billy Breathes
The Story of the Ghost
Rift
Sigma Oasis (yes, really)
Junta
Lawn Boy
A Picture of Nectar
Farmhouse
Joy
Hoist (though I have a soft spot since it was my first Phish album ever)
Fuego
Round Room
Big Boat
Undermind

lol, Brad otm with a more eloquent way of trying to make the same point

For me, Billy Breathes does the same sort of job as Rift, just in a different way, I find it to be a really great and cohesive listen. Ghost is just the weirdest Phish studio album and I love it so much.

gonna get in an ongoing listening session and report back with my findings, and need to revisit those early albums (junta and rift my most-listened to by far)

Rift is by the far the studio album I've heard in its entirety most, it was frequently played at both of the houses full of hippie women i hung out with in college.

I've been at multiple weddings where "Sparkle" gets played at peak drunk dancing hour and everyone goes nuts.

Story of the Ghost is good, not bad. It strikes me as a real jazzy jam session, like lots of acts would aspire to this kind of thing but it comes off as noodling but these guys are exceptionally tight even on an album which is imo clearly coming a lot from improvisation even more than usual.

Dud.

Today I had to drive for several hours solo in a car with Sirius XM. Flipped through the stations for most of the ride, arriving at the Phish station after 3ish hours. I ended up listening to a track with “Wolfman” in its name from Halloween 1998 (I think) for maybe 20 minutes of keyboard/bass/drums drone. It was perfect for that point in the ride! But I was totally unfamiliar with the song. Is that drone jam a regular part of their set? It didn’t sound like there was any guitar unless it was going through chorus/delays pedals, heavily processed.

“wolfman’s brother” is one of their best songs and has often been used as a stage for their improvisational development, so the drone definitely isn’t a regular thing but i’m unsurprised it appeared in a “wolfman’s” jam. i’ll have to track that down

(the wolfman’s on slip stitch and pass is often considered patient zero for the funky ‘97 style)

I would never call "Wolfman's Brother" one of their best songs personally but Brad is correct that it was a big showcase for the funky style of 1997. The version that you heard, tobo73, is indeed from Halloween 1998 and is considered one of their longest and most droney/ambient jams. That style was most prominent in 1998/1999, and there are many examples, happy to give you a listening list if you like. One of their most celebrated shows by fans, Fukuoka 6/14/2000, has a lot of awesome stuff like that and was officially released so it's on streaming services (Live Phish Volume 4). Trey, the guitarist, did sometimes move to keyboards in that era but I am not sure he does in the jam you heard. He does get deep into pedals and delays and loops though. They don't go to that place too often these days unfortunately, but for the past 5 years or so they will get out there if the jam happens to move in tat direction organically. Modern versions of "Wolfman's" are more likely to embody their more typical tension-and-release rocking out.

^^ totally underrated live album that people pass over because it's not a full show

Yeah tobo, that's a killer "Wolfman's Brother", a big half hour jam. Here's how the folks at phish net describe it in their jam chart notes:

Haunting Halloween Masterpiece. At 9:50, the jam descends from low intensity funk mode into 14 minutes of dark, chilling, effects-laden improvisation. A few movements to resurface are rebuffed, and the jam remains deep down until 24:00 when a bluesy shuffle provides some cathartic relief. -> to "Piper" which further brightens the mood.

I'll have to play that one again later today, remember loving it.

ha Lavator beat me to the punch with a less lazy post

yes much better contextual post than i was capable of, great job lavator

sometimes i think "one of the best phish songs ever" = "a phish song that is stuck in my head all the time but i have yet to hate" for me, this is certainly the case with "wolfman's," but i also think "i hear the high-pitched cavitation / of propellors from afar" is like the quintessential phish lyric (silly, ominous)

yeah, i think the ship has sailed on phish ever having a real hit, but if they had they probably would've ended up in the "songs that only ever appeared in one hit" thread. i've heard wolfman's brother thousands of times and just now realized i didn't have a clue what "cavitation" meant

Phish had their opportunity during the era when Blues Traveler broke out, and even a band like Big Head Todd and the Monsters was getting a little airplay. neither were very similar to Phish but the fanbases overlapped. I guess with Billy breathes they had some songs getting into more radio rotation but they never got poppy enough and stayed stubbornly themselves, to their credit and longevity I think.

xp Another late 98 "Wolfman's" that gets into far-out drone space is 12/28/98:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcMbw3Dx1TE

I heard "Heavy Things" on rock radio pretty often around the time of Farmhouse, think that was the closest thing to a radio hit they ever had