A Thread For Starting Pitchers That Are Doing Really Well

When Kershaw said he wanted to finish at 80 or 85 pitches, I'm going to take a wild guess that he wasn't factoring in "And that includes the possibility that I'll be working on a perfect game where I haven't had to push myself even once yet."

Here, to me, is a much more reasonable way to look at this (from, who else, Posnanski's column today--"The Johan Santana Game"):

“A lot of people blame the no-hitter on being the end of my career,” Santana would say. “But I don’t look at it that way. Because your career can end in one pitch in the beginning of your career or 10 years later or 20 years later.”

And I think that’s right. The risk is always there. And so is the opportunity. I believe Dave Roberts made the right choice with Kershaw because I believe it’s what Kershaw wants — he’s a team player from K to W, and he wants to protect that elbow and pitch all season and make another run at the World Series. Pulling him after seven innings might give him a better chance of doing that. I think we can respect that choice.

I believe Johan Santana wanted something else. He wanted history, and he was willing to risk the rest to make it happen. There’s certainly nothing wrong with that choice either.

Lost my connection there...

So he's supporting Roberts, and taking it, on faith, that what Kershaw is saying publicly is what he actually wanted. But he's also aware of the hidden cost--what was lost--and saying that going the other route is perfectly acceptable.

(Two guys on the radio this morning thought that Kershaw was put into an impossible spot simply by being consulted. If he says "Yeah, I'd like to stay in," he'll get grief for pursuing selfish goals. I don't agree with that on balance--I'd rather he be in on the decision--but I don't think their conclusion is wrong either.)

Last thing I really want to say on this: once again, I totally understand taking him out. What I hate, though, is someone dispassionately making all the obvious arguments as to why you take him out without ever acknowledging the other side, the historic opportunity that was lost (and just saying something like "perfect games are cool, of course" doesn't really get at that).

I did send in a "Hey Bill" (one of three Kershaw-related questions he posted today):

Bill -- Would you have pulled Kershaw today? Or is that a pointless question unless you have as much first-hand information about the situation as Dave Roberts?

I'm pretty sure you once wrote--maybe more than once--that pitch-count in the abstract is meaningless, the important thing is how many pitches are thrown after a pitcher is tired. Seeing as Kershaw was seemingly sailing through the game, and had a six-run lead, my instinct is that he hadn't reached that point yet...but I know it's early in a season that had a late start to spring training.
Asked by: Phil Dellio

Answered: 4/15/2022
No, I didn't write that, although I remember that somebody did...I read it somewhere. I don't know the right or wrong of it. The chance that he would have finished the Perfect Game is about 10%. Is a 10% chance of a perfect game a big enough thing to risk an injury that might devastate his season? It isn't JUST the pitch count; you're talking about an older pitcher, and a very early-season game after a shortened spring training. Not saying that he SHOULD have come out; I would just urge you to present the problem fully, rather than with a slant.

I indicated above that I thought there'd be a good chance he'd agree with the decision--he comes pretty close to doing that.

A couple of minor things...I might not have presented the problem fully fully, but of the three points he makes--older pitcher, early, short spring training--I did acknowledge two of them. And I'm positive he once wrote that about pitch count. He does that now and again with reader e-mail, say he either doesn't remember writing something somebody quotes--understandable--or say it's something he never wrote. Trying to dig up something is virtually impossible: the Historical Abstracts are indexed, but the yearly Abstracts, and the yearly Baseball Books, aren't.

Not sure this thread has a purpose anymore, but Ohtani through 5/60 pitches.

12 Ks through 5.1

Aaaand it’s over.

So much for that...And I was even trying to set realistic goals, hoping they'd pull him after 6 with the highest six-inning Game Score ever.

I was waiting for the 6th before saying anything.

Not a bad idea--I won't post here anymore unless someone heads out for the 8th.

Hahaa

I'm down there on Thursday--think we've lucked out and should get Manoah.

Especially good if you’re in the 500s. Dude is massive!

Oops--that was supposed to go in the Jays thread...Anyway, we've got pretty good seats in short right-field.

nestor cortes through 6

Nasty Nestor thru 6 (74 pitches)

lol xp

jon gray was matching him for a bit and then he gave up a hit and immediately got injured again

And he carried it through the seventh
But he died along the way
Someone else took over
Just like yesterday

Someone else honked over
Just like boboday

Orioles rookie Kyle Bradish has pitched 7 complete, 11 strikeouts and hasn't walked anybody. Only runs he allowed were on a weird inside-the-park HR that Mullins kicked in the outfield.

some called it weird; i called it fate

verlander's through 7 with no hits btw

Reid Detmers completes the no-hitter for the Angels, throwing 106 pitches and surrendering one walk

Man I didn't expect that Bradish's gem was going to be at best the third-best start in the American League tonight

Yeah, Jfc!

I was only half-following online, but I think the Jays' Kikuchi had no-hit the Yankees through five innings last night...wasted again.

Mikolas broken up on the last out and 129th pitch

A thread for spoilers who are doing well

Wow. That is the ONE cardinals game I’ve missed watching this year. Including spring training.

cristian javier is through seven in the bronx but has thrown 115 pitches

& neris + pressley complete it

now for the bombers to lose their next 15 games

40 year old wainwright, practically dead from old age, threw 7.2 hitless tonight, then went through 9 on 3 hits and 1 run. game's still going, tied 1-1 with the brewers in the 10th

Aaron Nola throw a complete game tonight and gave up 1 run but got the loss.

has wainwright yet disavowed his pledge to retire?

as far as i know, he has never said he'd retire! it was kind of an assumption. a one-year deal, molina's last year, he's turning and "his body is changing", he has hair in places where he did not have hair before. but afaik he never pledged retirement. i very much expect him to pitch next year and look forward to it. did not expect him to turn into bob tewksbury at the end of his career but i love it

and, if it's not clear, i am a total jackass for openly wishing for him to retire 3-5 years ago. i thought he was done, i was totally wrong. all hail the christian god

tampa's drew rasmussen is perfect through six on 54 pitches (!)

but he has only thrown more than six once this year

perfect through eight, 78 pitches

only gone to a three-ball count twice, both in the second inning

79 pitches now through 8 innings--that's amazing.

it's been...ten years since the last perfect game?

They're talking about it on the Jays' broadcast right now; Buck Martinez, one of the two announcers, was in the lineup when Len Barker threw his PG against Toronto in '81.

well fuck

well there it goes

did not know rays had these alternate uniforms with a fish on the cap and a ms paint sun on the jersey

beloved ex-ray brett phillips was in line to be the final batter but oh well

I thought for sure I'd set it up so Odor would break it up.

Lost the perfect game, the no-hitter, the Maddux, the shutout, and the CG in about two minutes.

"not if Jorge Mateo has anything to say about it"

Wacha took a no-hitter into the eighth inning against the Royals before surrendering a leadoff single to right field by Michael Massey. That was Wacha’s 103rd and final pitch.

Not live but just finding out about this.

I'd rather that than he gets through the 8th with 120 pitches and they pull him.