The Coddling Of The American Mind (Trigger Warning Article In The Atlantic...)

You guys have any better ideas? I'm genuinely interested.

The flood.

many decisions would remain to be taken about architecture and no doubt many would be bad, but until public ownership removes profit+growth as the central compulsions of social-media systems design, the systematic emotional terrorism these articles always complain about is not merely going to be incentivized but actually necessary.

Ok, so create a national free social network without the focus on maximizing engagement? I like that idea.

well no one will post on it if facebook is still there. you have to seize facebook first. then you've got facebook, so you might as well cancel your own project.

lest anyone think i think the state will be saving anybody, what we're actually gonna get instead of that is another one of our public-private partnerships, where everything about how upset you get every morning stays p much the same but the intelligence community has a little more say in exactly how.

First we take SnapChattan, then we take LinkdIn

Perhaps the youths are hopeless because they correctly read the room on where things are headed.

:/

Pareene had a description of Haidt years ago that said Haidt only hangs out with rich manhattanites which is why his very peculiar and particular ideas about liberal and conservative are the way they are.

It would also explain why the solutions are from the most milquetoast clueless rich person liberalism

This is pretty insane. So glad my kids didn't end up at that school.

It’s also been debunked previously.

As Title IX attorney Alexandra Brodsky wrote in her book, Sexual Justice: “No one, I think, wants to live in a world where the Shitty Media Men list or bathroom scrawling is plausibly a top choice.” Unfortunately, that’s often how things go, and then we end up in a place where a legacy publication devotes thousands of words to the victims of cancel culture, rather than, say, administrators who ignore revenge porn.

But Weil does not examine the context of the Bay Area’s protests or the allegations that led to their walkout — beyond noting that, again, “a group of students had been swapping nude images of female classmates.” This characterization makes it seem like the incidents are no big deal, just kid stuff that snowballed out of control — when, historically speaking, social ostracization is equally endemic to the American high school experience, and in this particular case, the students were mad that nude photos of them were being passed around like party flyers.

For a “look at the terrifying new world of cancel culture” story it seems like something that could have taken place 40 years ago - school response to an incident is totally inadequate, teenagers pass around a true story that gets exaggerated, someone gets ostracized and thinks it was unfair - the main difference is in the 80s it would likely have been the girl who would be the subject of exaggerated rumors and had her high school experience ruined.

Still happens over consensual sexual activity the world over and this article is about someone who committed an actual crime. Lol?

That gawker article didn't "debunk" anything. All it did was raise a bunch of questions. My wife teaches in SFUSD, and has heard, first-hand, about how out-of-control it got at SOTA. Kids were not even able to be seen with "canceled" students without they themselves being shunned. Random people ended up on lists by accident. Children calling any pushback to their demands "violence."

Is shunning someone who committed a crime worse than committing a crime? Also, I don’t know why you felt the need to connect a real life identity to this story but that’s your lookout.

are you pretending not to see the revenge porn thing or do you think

fuck it

cancel everyone who thinks cancel culture is the issue in any of this bs

Kids were not even able to be seen with "canceled" students without they themselves being shunned.

Children ostracise each other the world over. Bullying is a serious problem in schools everywhere. Overdramatised reactions to events are, in fact, extremely teenage. The abnormal part of this story is, again and I will keep repeating myself until you acknowledge it, that you are supposed to sympathise with someone who committed a crime. Seriously!

Random people ended up on lists by accident.

The nature of a whisper network as per the initial reply I pasted from the article is that it arises where normal procedures have failed. Did you go to a girls school? I did. We raised behaviour of a teacher towards us at the age of 12 with staff we trusted and our parents did too and nothing was done about it. I have heard similar stories from friends of mine and it’s been reported on, though, again, nobody seems really inclined to care about what happens to teenage girls in school. Now a whisper network flags up the wrong person because of the inadequacies of adults who are supposed to be safeguarding these children and children trying to protect themselves is the problem? Fuck off. You don’t get this happening if the issue had been acknowledged and addressed by the school.

Children calling any pushback to their demands "violence."
Their demands were that a peer who committed an act of assault, whether you bother to acknowledge it as such or not, faces some sort of consequence for his actions! It is classified as a sexual offence where I live, I imagine California has legislation covering similarly. This isn’t a case of the boy being misconstrued or outright lied about- he shared nudes of his underage girlfriend with classmates and not once in that article does the author bother to ask why!

Fuck this place, honestly.

That gawker article didn't "debunk" anything. All it did was raise a bunch of questions. My wife teaches in SFUSD, and has heard, first-hand, about how out-of-control it got at SOTA. Kids were not even able to be seen with "canceled" students without they themselves being shunned. Random people ended up on lists by accident. Children calling any pushback to their demands "violence."

You're a real peach. From "you know, Matt Taibbi makes some good points" to wondering if it's really bad for Donald Trump to keep Top Secret paperwork in an unlocked room at his golf resort to "cancellation is really real, you guys!" What color is the sky in your world?

https://www.thewrap.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/simpsons-memes-no-its-the-children-who-are-wrong.jpg

Many xps. Because he was a drunk teenage boy! And I don’t think he committed a crime, technically (he didn’t publish or share anything electronically). In any case, what he did was super-shitty (which he seems to understand).

I just don’t like when kids are permanently written off as bad people and given no chance to become uncanceled. All that achieves is further dehumanization and limits the opportunities for growth.

But I think a bunch of you disagree with me.

fuck you

Is that just in general, or

Many xps. Because he was a drunk teenage boy! And I don’t think he committed a crime, technically (he didn’t publish or share anything electronically). In any case, what he did was super-shitty (which he seems to understand).

I just don’t like when kids are permanently written off as bad people and given no chance to become uncanceled. All that achieves is further dehumanization and limits the opportunities for growth.

But I think a bunch of you disagree with me.

In my entire time on ilx I have never attacked anyone the way you jerks are piling on. Questioning my parenting? Yuck.

maybe grow a thicker skin and stop playing the victim

Oh no, we're "canceling" DJI!

It's undeniably shitty behavior and not the girl's fault, but is it ok to say that I'm glad that kids didn't have an easy way to send nude photos to each other when I was in high school, with the attendant weight of confidential & responsible behavior? I don't even understand why adults do it tbh.

Politics "discussions" on ilx are so toxic. A bunch of twitter addicts shouting down and insulting anyone who isn't already completely on-board with whatever they feel is the right way to think about everything. Pretty rich that you think canceling isn't real, when you guys seem to be trying to do it right now! Have any of you ever convinced anyone of anything, or are you just happy yelling at them and writing them off? I don't want to grow a thicker skin. I want to talk to non-assholes. I don't like talking to people like this. I'll leave you to it.

Like, of course it's horrible that people shared nude photos of a teenage girl! Sorry I didn't mention that. I assumed that was a given.

uh. grow a thicker skin? you really think that's the right answer? sheesh.

xp it wasn't considering how thoroughly you misapprehened what the relevant issue was

I'm sorry for being abusive not for your sake but because it gave you the excuse to do pretend everyone is just being mean to you for no reason

Like, of course it's horrible that people shared nude photos of a teenage girl! Sorry I didn't mention that. I assumed that was a given.

Hot take: maybe it's good for high school boys to be shunned for doing genuinely shitty things to other people. They will eventually graduate, it's not going to ruin their entire life, and it will give them a chance to reflect on what they did and how it has consequences.

I think DJI means well and maybe the reaction is a little unfair to him, but I otherwise agree with gyac. Sharing nude pictures of someone is a kind of cancelation too, and in that case the victim did nothing to bring it on themself.

Not a very hot take to ask boys to be accountable for their behavior?? Gyac otm throughout this discussion imo.

Absolutely.

thirded

Did you guys really read the whole story?

Yaretzi, the young woman in the story who wanted to work for real change - things like counselors for victims, for example - thought that putting up lists of "known abusers"was counterproductive. "Her intent was to lay blame at the feet of the school district, not specific young men."

The guy's ex-girlfriend seemed to have forgiven him:

The vice-principal told Fiona she could file a police report. She didn’t want to do that. (Diego had not disseminated the photo.) In communication with her family, however, the school made a plan to help Diego and Fiona repair. Fiona’s family, the vice-principal wrote in an email to Diego’s, made two requests:

1. That all pictures are deleted from every possible device, cloud, storage/media platform, etc.

2. That it be made clear to Diego and his family that this was a serious violation that is having an impact on the student’s overall well-being.

Done and done. As individuals, at the beginning, the two had managed this incident okay. Fiona had no interest in getting back together. But a couple of weeks after their breakup, when Diego was still eating only a handful of peanut-butter pretzels a day, they’d met at the beach and talked. “I was like, ‘I don’t appreciate getting treated like an abuser,’ ” Diego said. “And she’s like, ‘I don’t think you’re an abuser at all. I know that.’ ” But this had grown way beyond them.

My problem is certainly not with holding rapists and sexual assaulters accountable! I also don't want innocent people to get swept up in a witch-hunt, or for young people to have their lives ruined over a forgivable mistake - whether criminal or not. This is where the usual restorative justice routines might make sense, if they were moderated by the right person, perhaps? Obviously it wouldn't be ok to force assault victims into a restorative justice session with their abusers, but if the offense falls short of assault, maybe it would be better than just letting a bunch of kids get all Lord of the Flies on each other.

I mean, she's forgiven him based on the testimony of Diego. I don't think the guy is an unforgivable monster, but I thought the story was really weirdly written - it seems desperate to make you sympathize with him, going on about how beautiful his girlfriend was, as if he couldn't help but want to show off her nude photos to people. It only gives you second-hand, glancing accounts of the innocent people who were swept up, while giving you endless detail about the tragedy of the guy who did something fucked up. But his life isn't ruined - I'm sure the rest of his high school experience was indeed stressful and painful, even if he went to four proms (!), but he's graduated and does not have to exist in the drama mill of high school for the rest of his life. Clearly the school handled the entire situation terribly, but the article would have been a lot more effective without "he's really a good kid!" in every other paragraph.

god just fuck off DJI.

Go piss up a rope with Noel emits

^ winning hearts and minds one "fuck off" at a time

well gyac already said everything that needed saying. you're just feeling superior, as usual

you're just feeling superior

and brimstead, ofc, was just feeling, uh, smugly, morally... (looks for a word that means 'superior', while avoiding the blatant irony of it. fails. seeks an alternative, gentler approach)

go piss up a rope, sleeve

and brimstead, ofc, was just feeling, uh, smugly, morally... (looks for a word that means 'superior', while avoiding the blatant irony of it. fails. seeks an alternative, gentler approach)

go piss up a rope, sleeve

― more difficult than I look (Aimless)

i'm sorry, i don't know the social dynamics involved, what are you doing here again?

dick measuring, apparently.

i will say that i am, in fact, grateful to brimstead for telling dji to "fuck off". to me, that's allyship. in a practical sense, telling dji to fuck off isn't something i can really do anymore, so i'm glad that brimstead did.

as far as aimless goes... thank you for getting your dick out on stage. is there a joke you're trying to set up by doing this, or were you just trying to be edgy for the sake of it?