The Ramones : Classic Or Dud

Debbie Harry showed up recently in another context in a Commodore commercial with Andy Warhol.

There’s also this, which is read by AI Andy in the recent doc:

Monday, August 15, 1983

Cabbed to meet Jean Michel Basquiat at the workout with Lidija, he was doing it with us (cab $5). He’s in love with Paige Powell.

Got a call from Pia Zadora who said she wanted a Dollar Sign and she’d take it with her if it fit into her husband’s jet, so they were measuring it.

Oh, and one of the Ramones was having brain surgery yesterday because he was kicked in the head on West 10th Street in a fight over some cheap-looking girl.

Holy crap, I didn't even know that story.

Quick google search came up with an article published shortly after and a Dangerous Minds blog post. I knew about Joey and Johnny's fallout over Joey's ex/Johnny's soon-to-be wife, but man, not that.

I remember hearing about it on the rock and rollradio and maybe seeing it on the nightly news.

Should clarify, Joey and Johnny didn't fight each other, it was some other guy who thought Johnny was chasing after HIS girl.

The brain surgery unfortunately erased Johnny's impeccable mental storehouse of chord substitutions.

Wow, linked in that Dangerous Minds post is a really cool TV interview I've never seen before, when they played Minneapolis in 1978.

In '78 I lived in small town Minnesota. Disco was king. There was a big glitzy place that used to be a movie palace, but there was also a little subterranean bar where a friend was the DJ. He'd play hits from Saturday Night Fever, but also weave in oldies sets of Beatles, Beach Boys and Stones. I would bring my 45s of "Rockaway Beach" and "Sheena Is a Punk Rocker" down and he would play them and I would jump around, although I'm sure everyone else in the place hated them.

Cruel lol, Htbfy

Another cruel lol at this from Dangerous Minds:

and then there was the 24/7 problem that was Dee Dee Ramone

That whole blog post was good, thanks. Bonus points for mentioning the film Get Crazy as discussed (by me, mostly) here: https://www.ilxor.com/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?showall=true&bookmarkedmessageid=7812536&boardid=41&threadid=15150

Hm. Wonder why it didn't do the link thing.

The Ramones’ career after the first couple of albums was one long continuous attempt to sell out, with no one ever buying. Doing 1960s covers didn’t work. Working with Phil Spector didn’t work. Doing a Roger Corman film didn’t work. Adding synthesizers didn’t work. Theme song to a Stephen King movie didn’t work.

This has generally been my view, but I don't see it as a crass sellout, in that within their circle (like the Lou Reed first impression unthread) they really were told they were the chosen ones. So why wouldn't they try to go for it? There was always just enough crossover hype to keep stringing them along. Unperson, really like your essay on the 80s records - I hadn't really considered that Johnny was trying to keep the band servicing the core audience that needed them while Joey wanted a bigger crowd.

Then there's the final tragic irony that right around the time Johnny dies, Ramonesy guitar pop become the mode of Disney Channel tween pop songs.

Yeah, that quote above came out more negative than I intended. The Ramones were always lovable whatever they were trying to do. I was always rooting for them to have a major commercial breakthrough. They really tried hard and always maintained some essence of Ramonesness through it all. And the live show was always punishingly punk in a wonderful way.

I wonder if Johnny would have tempered his purism if, at some point, they had actually managed a gold album or a top ten hit.

Had to revisit this - someone uploaded the HD version (albeit the cropped one):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MIYVamAiN8

Feel like maybe I spam this but you just reminded me of
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_1sA0PVArw

I didn't know about Johnny's head injury. The first time I saw them was spring '84, which would have been the next tour after his recovery. (They were great, of course.)

I'm just curious... has anyone here seen the Ramones live in all of these phases? Or at least three of them?

a. 1976-1977 w/Tommy on drums
b. 1978-1983 w/Marky on drums
c. 1983-1987 w/Richie on drums
d. 1987-1989 w/Marky again post-sobriety
e. 1990- w/Marky on drums but C.J. instead of Dee Dee

If so, which lineup was your favorite?

*Tommy 1974-1977 should be

Tommy period is obviously the best but Marky is the best drummer.

Fair enough.

It's gonna be incredible.

Some radio station I used to listen to had an except of Joey saying those words that is now burned in my brain since I heard it over and over and over, but doesn't look like I will be able to discover its provenance.

I'm watching the documentary Ramones RAW where Gilbert Gottfried reveals how he was the secret fifth Ramone. @RealGilbert pic.twitter.com/IH3VQUtsX8

— tom c (@librariantom) March 11, 2022

"Somebody Put Something in My Drink" is actually the first Ramones song I remember encountering.

it was one of my first too. I had Sheena Is A Punk Rocker on a compilation and I liked it but it seemed kinda lightweight next to some of the UK punk on the same compilation. one of my friends at the time was this Greek stoner guy who was into punk and metal but mostly the kind of skater 90s stuff like NOFX, Lagwagon and Propagandhi. I used to bring my Dead Kennedys CDs round. anyway he was playing Ramones Mania one night but it was towards the end and he was like yeah this is the Ramones and it was Somebody Put Something In My Drink and I didn't really like it, thought it was too rock/metal or something. I've come around on it a bit since.

anyway a couple of years later I bought All The Stuff And More 1 & 2 and that was it I was off

We shouldn't forget Elvis Ramone

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXWSyo0aPnc

https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/blondie-clem-burke-the-ramones/

This departure put The Ramones into turmoil as they needed to replace Richie, and fast. Having already been forced to postpone a pair of hometown shows at New York’s Ritz, the band were desperately aiming to avoid more concert cancellations when they made the call to Clem Burke, calling in a favour and join inventing ‘Elvis Ramone’. Despite being an offer that Burke couldn’t refuse, he was immediately thrown straight into the deep end with little to no rehearsal time to help integrate him into the Ramone family.

Recalling years later, The Blondie drummer described his first live show with fellow New Yorkers a disaster: “They asked me on a Monday when they had a gig on a Friday,” Burke explained. “It was the hardest work I ever did in a band.” Burke would only ever do one more show with the Ramones, the band deciding in the days between their next show that his style wasn’t the perfect fit.

The following weekend, as the drumming revolving door turned once again, the band made the call to re-appoint Marky Ramone who, of course, was their original drummer before Richie took up the sticks. Marky, it’s well documented, originally left the band due to drink problems which, thankfully, he was able to curb and he would stay in the band until their final show as an outfit in 1996.

Years later, while reflecting on the turbulent years, Joey Ramone explained why Burke and the Ramones styles didn’t quite work out: “His drumming style wasn’t right,” he said. “It was very loose, like in Blondie, not as rigid as we need. Double time on the hi-hat was totally alien to him.”

Lol, of course

But I definitely don't want to buy a 7-LP box set of the 80s Ramones records.

I definitely bought the 7-lp box set of 80s Ramones records.

LOL

https://boingboing.net/2022/08/02/someone-sneaked-a-super-8-camera-into-a-1978-ramones-concert-and-was-able-to-record-for-13-minutes-before-he-got-caught.html

Pretty great!

With all the original members dead and all the albums canonized in box sets, deluxe editions, etc., etc., it's hard to imagine what their impact must have been when they were new. But imagine living in Kansas City in 1978 and that band comes through town. It would have been life-altering.

Oh, this is actual Kansas City! I just looked at the youtube title and assumed it was Max's Kansas City.

haha same

That was awesome, thanks for sharing!

just in case people didn't know, there's a great 26 minute Live At The Rainbow 1977 video on YouTube too, from the It's Alive concert

the start of that is too camera flip heavy + some shots are reused but it gets better

Man, I got to get that Ramones DVD set now. Just looking at the tracklist makes me drool.

This one?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sp3zaeOyL7Q

yeah! (sorry, was on my phone, could have linked that myself)

Saw a little something interesting on a certain substack yesterday, assuming TSF saw it as well.

https://waynerobins49.substack.com/p/ramones-leave-home

would have loved to see dr feelgood. i don't think i saw the ramones until 1977. saw them once at cbgb but it was a madhouse.

Gabba gabba weeks said you weeks said you one of us

Ramones and Dr Feelgood would have been fun. I didn't see Ramones till 79

Fabulous

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8sNfCdCAJg

11 songs in 20 minutes. Amazing.

Man, that totally hit the spot. Made my day, maybe my week.

wonderful <3

So great. Thanks.