Chapo Trap House and the rise of the dirtbag left

Yeah Twin Peaks may be the grandfather of the genre.

Hill Street Blues afaik

Miami Vice and Crime Story gotta fit in there somewhere, too

If we’re going to keep going backwards, then—-
Twilight Zone

I think one defining thing about “prestige tv” is the season long (or show long) story arc, so not sure Twilight Zone would count.

I guess Black Mirror isn’t Prestige then

Season-long arcs and when you watch it you feel smarter than the schmoes watching normal TV are the primary requirements.

Definitely also shows that dominate media discourse way out of proportion to their viewership numbers. Josh Fruhlinger on Twitter a couple years ago was pointing out how millions more people watch, like CBS old-people bait like NCIS than Mad Men but all “the discourse” is about the latter.

The Prisoner fits most of the qualifications.

I finally cancelled my patreon. Time for these guys to get a real job.

I think the official modern prestige era, if you accept that The Sopranos kind of bridged from proto- to actual-prestige tv, is The Wire. (You can just count The Sopranos, idk whatever)

Which lines up with Homicide being a precursor

the general critical line is that Sopranos, The Wire, and Deadwood are the initial trinity of prestige TV, and so I think one of the hallmarks is that prestige TV should be About Something Bigger, as well as having this more uniformly high level of acting, directing, and creative control. Twin Peaks definitely stands apart from other TV at the time and has Lynch's creative stamp on it, but the acting and directing...varies, and it was famously subject to the demands of ABC executives. The Prisoner kind of qualifies, but most of the episodes barely contribute to the story arc. Twin Peaks and Homicide seem like the shows where there was a real conflict between the show's potential and the demands of network TV, rather than just issues with the standards and practices department.

If miniseries count then I'd say that Roots and Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy would be the closest to prestige TV pre-90s.

Right I always got the impression that prestige tv shows no matter when and where they are set we’re meant to be “It’s About America Today don’t you see”

The "it's about AMERICA" thread in The Sopranos is my least favorite aspect of it. I mean, obviously it's about America, but whenever they try to work in larger commentary about foreign policy or that sort of thing.

I like season two of the Wire because the Sobotkas/union guys/Greeks are good characters on their own but Frank's "we used to BUILD SHIT" asides are a bit on the nose.

What I really loved about Deadwood and The Wire is how much they were shows about entire communities; The Sopranos had a bit of that + in depth psychological analysis of one individual character, and then shows like Mad Men and Breaking Bad explored that second aspect to the extent that it now seems to be the prestige TV default. I know Simon got rightfully clowned for saying The Wire was "more like a novel" but I do wish more TV shows had that sprawling 19th century novel feel to them with dozens of characters.

i feel like this genre probably kicked off in the US with the PBS slot MASTERPIECE THEATRE in 1971? one of the earliest series it broadcast was the BBC's THE FORSYTE SAGA (26 eps first broadcast from mid-1967, the last BBC drama filmed in B/W). galsworthy's novel sequence it's based on was published in the early 20th century but it's about the 19th century: and it's very much sprawling with dozens of character -- watching it as a tiny i was afraid of the patriach soames forsyte (eric porter) and had a bit of a crush on fleur (susan hampshire) tho all i know remember is that hampshire the actress publicly discussed her dyslexia -- which was the first time i learned of this condition

where is my chapo invite

I remember there being a fun thread years ago where we pitched ideas for The Wire S6, but can't find it now.

Emily Nussbaum had a very good piece about how Sex and the City was a flagship show for HBO but how that has since been revised down by the post-show’s legacy films and…revisionism.

"Puzzle Box" TV kind intersects with Prestige TV too, though it can obviously also just be trash. It's a slightly different lineage The Prisoner---Twin Peaks---X-Files---Lost--Carnivale---Mr. Robot---True Detective--The Leftovers---Westworld--Russian Doll etc. I suppose you could throw Battlestar in there as well.

last Citations Needed episode “news brief”on US media narratives and tropes in response to Russian invasion is A+

Blowback S3 is going to supportingcast.fm instead of Stitcher, hallelujah

my god, is the crank back?!

Counterpoint: 17th,18th, & early 19th century Americans had arguably the world's highest standards of living before the development of widespread public education. https://t.co/nleUUBPqo1

— Dan McLaughlin (@baseballcrank) April 26, 2022

public education is bad? most engagement he’s had since the old days of podcasts doing easy dunks on his takes. he’s maybe back from doing still-dumb but less-dunkable takes

nice how that tweet is itself a good argument for the importance of education

"the world's highest"

*dies of consumption*

How are you guys celebrating Virgil Disappearance Day 2022?

PROMISES MADE AND BROKEN: WHERE'S @VIRGILTEXAS?

WHY IS @briebriejoy LYING?

SCHOOL BOND DOGS EXCLUSIVE: @chrishansen reporting pic.twitter.com/MKaYk3PAqA

— SchoolBondWolfie (@BondWolfie) June 8, 2022

If BJG is pivoting to Tucker world she could just bring Texas back and not say anything.

Virgil could totally make a comeback as a cancel culture victim in right wing media

this is going to be fun to hear about on the show

Rod getting deported from Hungary is the sad adult version of Aslan sending the human children back to their world at the end of every adventure. pic.twitter.com/6sPZUMI8BK

— Unworthy Hand (@kisstheblade_) June 17, 2022

so you know how everyone already fucking knew where this shit was going and decided to enable it anyway

If they are "freed up" at all now that they have won compulsory motherhood, they have already turned toward anti-LGBTQ politics and broader Christian nationalist efforts to undermine the public good—education, health care, voting— pic.twitter.com/UGuPclxbSZ

— Melissa Gira Grant (@melissagira) July 9, 2022

Did you bother to skim the opinion piece to see if she was championing Dobbs or the pro-life movement? "Not holding my breath" seems to indicate that she thinks they're full of shit.

no I didn't. stop pretending you don't know what this is

I'm pretty sure I know exactly what it is - meaningless pap promoting cradle to grave social democracy (we all agree everyone should support comprehensive pre- and post-partum care, right?) through the lens of the "pro-life" movement's hypocrisy on that matter (as they all suddenly pretend that no, they really want that care too).

Bruenig's problem isn't that she's some kind of crypto-reactionary it's that she exists in the clickbait economy of op-eds and so needs to frame her good idea as a Serious Consideration of the implications of what the pro-life movement claims to believe.

so we all exist within clickbait capitalism and whatever also she and whatever left tendency she is a part of is actually reactionary as has been repeatedly demonstrated

like do you how many actual nazis are in her likes/replies

I know but do you?

whatever. it's just frustrating and depressing how this shit plays out

it's like certain online left adjacent types decided about 5 years ago that alt right memelord bullshit was a fun and effective way to purge the cringe from their ranks and now they always seem to be on the verge of raving about degenerates ruining socialism. don't tell me it isn't a thing

Even if I actually understood any of that, I have no idea what it would have to do with Bruenig (who's not a socialist).

I like her husband who isn’t a weirdo tradcath or even religious at all afaict? weird pairing. had he just never seen a titty before or what

not talking about EB she has a more lib media respectability affect although her stans are absolutely those people

I was okay with her until I learned she’s a convert. Like who converts to Catholicism in the 21st century who isn’t a ghoul like Tony Blair or Newt Gingrich

If you really want the incense and ritual and apostolic succession is important to you there’s Episcopalianism

Maybe she didn't read The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe until after college.

Oh come on, she converted in 2014, surely the high water mark year of Catholicism

It’s something she’s written about extensively and it’s not particularly interesting. She was an active Methodist who got an MPhil in Theology and decided that the Augustinian approach aligned better with her religious values, and values as a socdem, than the tradition she was raised in. I’m not sure she has a relationship with the institution of the US Catholic Church now, or if she does she usually only talks about it negatively.

I don't think paying attention to liz bruenig did absolutely anything to the abortion rights conflict in either direction. I understand giving people the side-eye when they'd give her a platform, or whatever we're calling it these days, but she's an incredibly minor figure who will speak about her personal morality, which people will confuse (and she does, personally) with aggregate politics that don't care about that. I think Melissa Gira Grant, whose writing I appreciate, is rightfully rolling her eyes at this article but I doubt she'd argue the stance of the article is anything of substance

At this point there are possibly a dozen people in the US who aren't already convinced that strong social protections and subsidies are needed in healthcare, childcare, etc. who could read an article like that and come to some epiphany. The real target audience is people who want their instinct that anti-abortion people are reasonable but hypocritical validated

or rather, that anti-abortion people could be reasonable but they're too busy being hypocritical

I’m Christian so, naturally, I know some anti-abortion chuds. I’ve seen many of them advocate for exactly what Bruenig is describing with surprisingly little pushback. I feel like we’re now in this shitty situation where these dipshits will claim they support these policies, but, unlike abortion, their advocacy will be strictly limited to posts, during this exact moment, on social media and quickly forgotten.

I think that people don't realize that, in their efforts to square their personal morality with the effects of law, by being ambivalent to anti-abortion legislation they instantly align themselves with some wretched people who truly just want to punish women

at some point in the past I'd probably have thought phrasing it that way was over the top, but having lived this long, I don't think it's an exaggeration