Chapo Trap House and the rise of the dirtbag left

I haven't listened to This Is Sus... Is it assumed that the listener HAS watched these shows or HASN'T watched these show? Some of them, like Oz or Homeland seem like they're regular wheelhouse PRESTIGE TEEVEE things, and then others it's like ironic normie TV, and then it's like didn't everyone get excited about Nashville so which is it?

It started out as What Pseudo-Prestige TV Says About Us (kind of) and then seems to have morphed into Felix watching bad TV and recapping it.

The live show episodes are the absolute worst sales pitch for buying a ticket to see them on tour.

i thought the live show bits from the other week were alright but the audience participation stuff this week was painful, particularly the guy whose podcast pitch was about how he was one of the cool fans of the show, not like those other fans. Kind of grim to think that those ideas were the best that the audience had to offer.

The tv recaps are kind of a grab bag. I’ve never watched Homeland and the way it was broken down would probably work better for someone who’s watched some episodes. Kind of trashy propaganda-filled thriller with weird character arcs is how they ended up describing it.

The La Brea episode is a strong warning to not watch the show unless you want to see absolutely terrible television and it’s mostly goofing on how bad the show is

I don’t think I listened to a CTH episode about Oz, but hoo boy was that show ever a proto-prestige show. I watched it when it aired and it’s funny how they hit so many things that would be later hallmarks of prestige television, but also just had wild trash flying out of every plot device

xxp I forgot I had even played this. It's a yikes my dude.

Oz’s trash ones and insanity actively thwart binge watching. More than two episodes in 48 hours and your brain starts to melt.

Trashiness

What were the original “prestige” shows? The Sopranos? Sex and the City?

Sopranos for sure. even tho it was network feels like West Wing was in the running

The West Wing/Homicide/NYPD Blue were all pointing that way but Sopranos is the first one that really had that "it's a NOVEL but on TV" air to it IMO.

yeah totally. i should watch Homicide and the Shield at some point.

I had a bootleg DVD set once upon a time but Homicide has never gone up for streaming anywhere AFAIK, it's a shame

Twin Peaks

Yeah Twin Peaks may be the grandfather of the genre.

Hill Street Blues afaik

Miami Vice and Crime Story gotta fit in there somewhere, too

If we’re going to keep going backwards, then—-
Twilight Zone

I think one defining thing about “prestige tv” is the season long (or show long) story arc, so not sure Twilight Zone would count.

I guess Black Mirror isn’t Prestige then

Season-long arcs and when you watch it you feel smarter than the schmoes watching normal TV are the primary requirements.

Definitely also shows that dominate media discourse way out of proportion to their viewership numbers. Josh Fruhlinger on Twitter a couple years ago was pointing out how millions more people watch, like CBS old-people bait like NCIS than Mad Men but all “the discourse” is about the latter.

The Prisoner fits most of the qualifications.

I finally cancelled my patreon. Time for these guys to get a real job.

I think the official modern prestige era, if you accept that The Sopranos kind of bridged from proto- to actual-prestige tv, is The Wire. (You can just count The Sopranos, idk whatever)

Which lines up with Homicide being a precursor

the general critical line is that Sopranos, The Wire, and Deadwood are the initial trinity of prestige TV, and so I think one of the hallmarks is that prestige TV should be About Something Bigger, as well as having this more uniformly high level of acting, directing, and creative control. Twin Peaks definitely stands apart from other TV at the time and has Lynch's creative stamp on it, but the acting and directing...varies, and it was famously subject to the demands of ABC executives. The Prisoner kind of qualifies, but most of the episodes barely contribute to the story arc. Twin Peaks and Homicide seem like the shows where there was a real conflict between the show's potential and the demands of network TV, rather than just issues with the standards and practices department.

If miniseries count then I'd say that Roots and Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy would be the closest to prestige TV pre-90s.

Right I always got the impression that prestige tv shows no matter when and where they are set we’re meant to be “It’s About America Today don’t you see”

The "it's about AMERICA" thread in The Sopranos is my least favorite aspect of it. I mean, obviously it's about America, but whenever they try to work in larger commentary about foreign policy or that sort of thing.

I like season two of the Wire because the Sobotkas/union guys/Greeks are good characters on their own but Frank's "we used to BUILD SHIT" asides are a bit on the nose.

What I really loved about Deadwood and The Wire is how much they were shows about entire communities; The Sopranos had a bit of that + in depth psychological analysis of one individual character, and then shows like Mad Men and Breaking Bad explored that second aspect to the extent that it now seems to be the prestige TV default. I know Simon got rightfully clowned for saying The Wire was "more like a novel" but I do wish more TV shows had that sprawling 19th century novel feel to them with dozens of characters.

i feel like this genre probably kicked off in the US with the PBS slot MASTERPIECE THEATRE in 1971? one of the earliest series it broadcast was the BBC's THE FORSYTE SAGA (26 eps first broadcast from mid-1967, the last BBC drama filmed in B/W). galsworthy's novel sequence it's based on was published in the early 20th century but it's about the 19th century: and it's very much sprawling with dozens of character -- watching it as a tiny i was afraid of the patriach soames forsyte (eric porter) and had a bit of a crush on fleur (susan hampshire) tho all i know remember is that hampshire the actress publicly discussed her dyslexia -- which was the first time i learned of this condition

where is my chapo invite

I remember there being a fun thread years ago where we pitched ideas for The Wire S6, but can't find it now.

Emily Nussbaum had a very good piece about how Sex and the City was a flagship show for HBO but how that has since been revised down by the post-show’s legacy films and…revisionism.

"Puzzle Box" TV kind intersects with Prestige TV too, though it can obviously also just be trash. It's a slightly different lineage The Prisoner---Twin Peaks---X-Files---Lost--Carnivale---Mr. Robot---True Detective--The Leftovers---Westworld--Russian Doll etc. I suppose you could throw Battlestar in there as well.

last Citations Needed episode “news brief”on US media narratives and tropes in response to Russian invasion is A+

Blowback S3 is going to supportingcast.fm instead of Stitcher, hallelujah

my god, is the crank back?!

Counterpoint: 17th,18th, & early 19th century Americans had arguably the world's highest standards of living before the development of widespread public education. https://t.co/nleUUBPqo1

— Dan McLaughlin (@baseballcrank) April 26, 2022

public education is bad? most engagement he’s had since the old days of podcasts doing easy dunks on his takes. he’s maybe back from doing still-dumb but less-dunkable takes

nice how that tweet is itself a good argument for the importance of education

"the world's highest"

*dies of consumption*

How are you guys celebrating Virgil Disappearance Day 2022?

PROMISES MADE AND BROKEN: WHERE'S @VIRGILTEXAS?

WHY IS @briebriejoy LYING?

SCHOOL BOND DOGS EXCLUSIVE: @chrishansen reporting pic.twitter.com/MKaYk3PAqA

— SchoolBondWolfie (@BondWolfie) June 8, 2022

If BJG is pivoting to Tucker world she could just bring Texas back and not say anything.

Virgil could totally make a comeback as a cancel culture victim in right wing media

this is going to be fun to hear about on the show

Rod getting deported from Hungary is the sad adult version of Aslan sending the human children back to their world at the end of every adventure. pic.twitter.com/6sPZUMI8BK

— Unworthy Hand (@kisstheblade_) June 17, 2022

so you know how everyone already fucking knew where this shit was going and decided to enable it anyway

If they are "freed up" at all now that they have won compulsory motherhood, they have already turned toward anti-LGBTQ politics and broader Christian nationalist efforts to undermine the public good—education, health care, voting— pic.twitter.com/UGuPclxbSZ

— Melissa Gira Grant (@melissagira) July 9, 2022

Did you bother to skim the opinion piece to see if she was championing Dobbs or the pro-life movement? "Not holding my breath" seems to indicate that she thinks they're full of shit.

no I didn't. stop pretending you don't know what this is

I'm pretty sure I know exactly what it is - meaningless pap promoting cradle to grave social democracy (we all agree everyone should support comprehensive pre- and post-partum care, right?) through the lens of the "pro-life" movement's hypocrisy on that matter (as they all suddenly pretend that no, they really want that care too).

Bruenig's problem isn't that she's some kind of crypto-reactionary it's that she exists in the clickbait economy of op-eds and so needs to frame her good idea as a Serious Consideration of the implications of what the pro-life movement claims to believe.